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RE: Accelerating Drydock Repairs

 
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RE: Accelerating Drydock Repairs - 2/17/2020 8:33:57 PM   
dr.hal


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe
You were asking about repairs, not upgrades. Repairs and upgrades are two different things.

RangerJoe relax! I know what I was asking, but the underlying principle that Don is talking about is applicable to repairs and how they are automatically adjusted by the program to maximize those repairs. If they are maxed out before I try to do something about it, then nothing happens. And I was asking why was nothing happening in some yards but not in others. This explination answers my question concerning said repairs (NOT upgrades, but it answer that too).

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RE: Accelerating Drydock Repairs - 2/18/2020 12:14:11 AM   
Ian R

 

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DrHal, I am still intrigued by your references to supply consumption. I have an idee fixe that supply is not relevant.

quote:

In such a case I've noticed no adverse impact (of course except that supply is used at a quicker rate, which is expected)... is the yard really overloaded and using LOTS more supply than an accelerated ship would use if not overloading the yard?


Was there something else going on that increased supply usage? I believe the answer to your quoted question is "No".

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RE: Accelerating Drydock Repairs - 2/18/2020 12:20:45 AM   
jdsrae


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Alfred did post a Shipyard Repairs 101 thread some years back that I will try to find a link to later.

Found it quicker than expected. Not sure if this will help with the original question or not:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2990845&mpage=1&key=Repairs%2C101�


< Message edited by jdsrae -- 2/18/2020 12:22:55 AM >


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RE: Accelerating Drydock Repairs - 2/18/2020 12:33:05 AM   
LST Express


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Nice to see Mr.Bowen lending his expertise again!

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RE: Accelerating Drydock Repairs - 2/18/2020 1:09:14 AM   
btd64


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jdsrae

Alfred did post a Shipyard Repairs 101 thread some years back that I will try to find a link to later.

Found it quicker than expected. Not sure if this will help with the original question or not:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2990845&mpage=1&key=Repairs%2C101�



I bumped this thread earlier today....GP

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RE: Accelerating Drydock Repairs - 2/18/2020 10:21:35 AM   
Ian R

 

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That bump reminds me that the fact that "The process of repairing ships does not consume supply" is stated fairly early in the guide.

Edit: That does mean that naval support squads don't eat supply, of course. Alfred does not say that assembling and maintaining the implements with which to enhance the repair capabilities of a port is not without supply cost. His statement in the guide means what it says, no more or less.

< Message edited by Ian R -- 2/18/2020 10:25:49 AM >


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RE: Accelerating Drydock Repairs - 2/18/2020 10:26:21 AM   
GetAssista

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R
That bump reminds me that the fact that "The process of repairing ships does not consume supply" is the first common misconception that is dispelled in it.

I suppose that how you worded it ("the fact... is a misconception") can be an example of how misconceptions are born

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RE: Accelerating Drydock Repairs - 2/18/2020 5:39:18 PM   
Ian R

 

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See edit to fix that.

Alfred's precise description was:

quote:

3. Correcting common player misunderstandings of the repair process

Before proceeding to discuss the “repair process” in detail, I think it is useful to correct at the start of this guide, some very common player misunderstandings of what is involved in the “repair process”. Player misunderstandings of the “repair process” inhibit a proper understanding the “repair process”. Below I list the true parameters which correct the most common player misunderstandings of the “repair process”.

• The process of repairing ships does not consume supply, there is therefore no need for “tenders” to be loaded with supply when they are being used as “repair ships”


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RE: Accelerating Drydock Repairs - 2/18/2020 5:44:20 PM   
btd64


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Makes sense. AR and ARD's don't require supplies....GP

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Post #: 39
RE: Accelerating Drydock Repairs - 2/18/2020 7:13:57 PM   
HansBolter


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Supplies are loaded aboard tenders, that are also capable of making repairs to the ships they tend, for the purpose of rearming the ships they are tending.

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RE: Accelerating Drydock Repairs - 2/18/2020 7:44:33 PM   
dr.hal


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Yes I believe you, and Alfred and others are right, no supplies are consumed repairing ships. When one bumps up the priority, that will only have an impact if there is extra capability within the yard to fix the ship, if it is maxed out already, nothing happens. Which is why nothing happened in a number of yards that I had ships in while in other yards something DID happen!!! Thanks all... I appreciate you all chipping in. Hal

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RE: Accelerating Drydock Repairs - 2/18/2020 9:03:00 PM   
Anachro


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One question I've had:

I'm starting to wonder how important it is not to overload a shipyard because I've had cases where I'd go into the red and overload the shipyard by a lot and yet (by, say, putting multiple ships on heavy priority) I'd get better results in terms of time saved on repairing. Even when a shipyard is overloaded, in many cases, putting additional ships in repair and high priority doesn't seem to affect repair times at all - I still save time by doing so. In a few cases, I've seen ship repairs affects by being in the red, but usually its minimal and more than offset by the gain from designating a number of ships to high priority even when already overloaded.

I hope that makes sense. Shipyard repair is a black hole to me somewhat. How impactful is an overloaded shipyard?

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Post #: 42
RE: Accelerating Drydock Repairs - 2/19/2020 1:41:57 AM   
Don Bowen


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Overloading a shipyard is effectively forming a queue. Setting ships to higher priority is altering the order of the queue but it is still a queue of ships waiting to be repaired.

The shipyard will repair ships from the queue as best it can. The queue order may be jumped by a smaller ship that can fit but generally its in the order of the queue. As soon as one ship is repaired another is pulled from the queue and repairs begin on it.

Convenient but not as selective as managing the queue yourself.

By the way, McArthur was an ass. My cousin was in the original garrison of Corregidor. "B" Battery 60th CA.

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RE: Accelerating Drydock Repairs - 2/19/2020 1:54:25 AM   
dr.hal


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

By the way, McArthur was an ass. My cousin was in the original garrison of Corregidor. "B" Battery 60th CA.

Many historians, INCLUDING some Army ones are coming to that conclusion!

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RE: Accelerating Drydock Repairs - 2/19/2020 4:13:14 PM   
rustysi


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quote:

By the way, McArthur was an ass.


Unfortunately true of many high ranking leaders, military or not.

BTW Don, nice to see you around. You too, Ian.

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RE: Accelerating Drydock Repairs - 2/19/2020 6:12:38 PM   
Anachro


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quote:

By the way, McArthur was an ass. My cousin was in the original garrison of Corregidor. "B" Battery 60th CA.


I'm sure he was, but he was also a successful commander in many ways, though obviously pompous and egoistic. There's a reason Manchester called him the American Caesar.

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RE: Accelerating Drydock Repairs - 2/19/2020 6:21:41 PM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

Folks, while I appreciate the banter, my questions seem to be ignored! The repairs I'm talking about require a DRY DOCK (physically IN the drydock), thus not weapons or systems repairs as they don't require drydocking (that I'm aware of). Such weapons repairs may require a certain harbor or yard size but not the actual use of the drydock. I'm talking about hull or machinery damage that can not be repaired without drydocking. Why is it that in some ports a repair can be accelerated (thus reducing the number of days to repair) while the same repairs in another port, if accelerated, don't decrease the days required for the repair? Also if the acceleration of said ship puts the yard over it's limit (but in fact the tons being accommodated are NOT over the yard limit) is an additional penalty incurred (beyond the normal supply usage that acceleration requires)? Alfred's discourse doesn't address these anomalies.


I think the answer is two-fold:

1) "repair density", which is not the same as repair points needed

2) math

To expand on "math", I mean that it has to do with the size of the ship, the size of the shipyard, the repair density of a given repair, etc.

You most often see the situations you describe with very large ships (e.g., >30K tons). These ships seem to be difficult to accelerate, even with very large shipyards (e.g., 200+), which implies to me that the relationship between tonnage and shipyard size required to accelerate the repairs (repairing multiple points of flooding on a CA, for example, rather than a BB) is non-linear. It is probably exponential in nature instead.

Tip: cycle your ships between pier side and shipyard, based on how many % of repair points the ship reaches while in pier side.

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RE: Accelerating Drydock Repairs - 2/19/2020 6:25:41 PM   
Anachro


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quote:

You most often see the situations you describe with very large ships (e.g., >30K tons). These ships seem to be difficult to accelerate, even with very large shipyards (e.g., 200+)


I've actually ran into the situation a lot where I somehow are able to accelerate these ships a lot by using "high" priority status. What I find funny, is that "high" seems to be more effective than "critical". To give an example, on multiple occasions I've had big ships that will be at, say, 100 days repair on normal, go to 50-60 days on "high" and then inexplicably go back up to "100" on critical, even when I set every other ship to "low' priority.

Why is that?

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RE: Accelerating Drydock Repairs - 2/19/2020 8:56:59 PM   
Scott_USN

 

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I thought MacArthur being an ass was general knowledge!

Should have left him there so he couldn't come back and blame Wainwright for all of MacArthur's failures. Blaming Wainwright was enough of an ass thing to do to seal that opinion.

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RE: Accelerating Drydock Repairs - 2/20/2020 1:12:07 AM   
Don Bowen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Anachro

quote:


I've actually ran into the situation a lot where I somehow are able to accelerate these ships a lot by using "high" priority status. What I find funny, is that "high" seems to be more effective than "critical". To give an example, on multiple occasions I've had big ships that will be at, say, 100 days repair on normal, go to 50-60 days on "high" and then inexplicably go back up to "100" on critical, even when I set every other ship to "low' priority.

Why is that?


I've actually ran into the situation a lot where I somehow are able to accelerate these ships a lot by using "high" priority status. What I find funny, is that "high" seems to be more effective than "critical". To give an example, on multiple occasions I've had big ships that will be at, say, 100 days repair on normal, go to 50-60 days on "high" and then inexplicably go back up to "100" on critical, even when I set every other ship to "low' priority.

Why is that?


Good question. Setting to "high" increases both the resources dedicated to, and the cost of, the repairs. Setting to "Critical" increases both of these again but also moves the repair to first-in-line. If the repair facility is unable to service the request for "critical" level resources, it doesn't appear to default to "high". It just ignores the priority increase and calculates the repair at Normal Priority. Not sure that is correct, but that is how it is. Considering the ease of adjusting the priority level manually, and the dubious advisability of auto-adjusting the priority setting, I do not believe any change should be made.

Setting priority to "Low" does not change resource allocation in anyway so the effect you see would be expected. All "low" does is move the ship to the back of the queue.

P.S. I seem to have forgotten quite a bit about the workings of this forum. Hit "OK" much to soon. Sorry.


< Message edited by Don Bowen -- 2/20/2020 1:16:34 AM >

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RE: Accelerating Drydock Repairs - 2/21/2020 4:21:17 PM   
Scott_USN

 

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Is there any difference between AR's in their ability to repair? For instance I have the small one from the Dutch that I sent to Darwin, but also I have the larger Prometheus class in the South Pacific dock. Visually the Prometheus "Vestal" looks like it would be more capable.

Also is there any benefit to stacking them? Putting 2 or 3 ARs in one port?

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RE: Accelerating Drydock Repairs - 2/21/2020 4:51:03 PM   
btd64


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Scott_USN

Is there any difference between AR's in their ability to repair? For instance I have the small one from the Dutch that I sent to Darwin, but also I have the larger Prometheus class in the South Pacific dock. Visually the Prometheus "Vestal" looks like it would be more capable.

Also is there any benefit to stacking them? Putting 2 or 3 ARs in one port?


AR's can fix total major damage up to 5 points. If you have a bunch of ships with a max or less of 5 major damage points then having an extra AR will help in fixing more ships at a time. This has been my observation....GP

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RE: Accelerating Drydock Repairs - 2/21/2020 4:56:08 PM   
Scott_USN

 

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I thought so thanks. SO later on you could build up a very strong repair base forward.

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RE: Accelerating Drydock Repairs - 2/21/2020 5:26:14 PM   
btd64


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Remember that AR's only handle a ship with no more than 5 major damage. An ARD will repair any level of float damage....GP

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RE: Accelerating Drydock Repairs - 2/21/2020 8:25:26 PM   
RangerJoe


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And only one support ship per ship if I remember correctly. Some other ships also function this way but at a reduced level, such as the AS, AD, AG, and AGP.

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RE: Accelerating Drydock Repairs - 2/22/2020 7:50:27 PM   
rustysi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

Folks, while I appreciate the banter, my questions seem to be ignored! The repairs I'm talking about require a DRY DOCK (physically IN the drydock), thus not weapons or systems repairs as they don't require drydocking (that I'm aware of). Such weapons repairs may require a certain harbor or yard size but not the actual use of the drydock. I'm talking about hull or machinery damage that can not be repaired without drydocking. Why is it that in some ports a repair can be accelerated (thus reducing the number of days to repair) while the same repairs in another port, if accelerated, don't decrease the days required for the repair? Also if the acceleration of said ship puts the yard over it's limit (but in fact the tons being accommodated are NOT over the yard limit) is an additional penalty incurred (beyond the normal supply usage that acceleration requires)? Alfred's discourse doesn't address these anomalies.


I think the answer is two-fold:

1) "repair density", which is not the same as repair points needed

2) math

To expand on "math", I mean that it has to do with the size of the ship, the size of the shipyard, the repair density of a given repair, etc.

You most often see the situations you describe with very large ships (e.g., >30K tons). These ships seem to be difficult to accelerate, even with very large shipyards (e.g., 200+), which implies to me that the relationship between tonnage and shipyard size required to accelerate the repairs (repairing multiple points of flooding on a CA, for example, rather than a BB) is non-linear. It is probably exponential in nature instead.

Tip: cycle your ships between pier side and shipyard, based on how many % of repair points the ship reaches while in pier side.


Also keep in mind that a ship's durability affects its repair time.

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Post #: 56
RE: Accelerating Drydock Repairs - 2/22/2020 7:53:41 PM   
rustysi


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quote:

And only one support ship per ship if I remember correctly.


For an ARD this is true, only one in the drydock at a time. Other 'repair' ships may service two at a time, of course they will divide their repair points.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

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Post #: 57
RE: Accelerating Drydock Repairs - 2/22/2020 7:55:08 PM   
dr.hal


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi
Also keep in mind that a ship's durability affects its repair time.

How so Rusty?

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Post #: 58
RE: Accelerating Drydock Repairs - 2/22/2020 8:01:10 PM   
RangerJoe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

And only one support ship per ship if I remember correctly.


For an ARD this is true, only one in the drydock at a time. Other 'repair' ships may service two at a time, of course they will divide their repair points.


A damaged ship can only receive assistance from one support ship.

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Post #: 59
RE: Accelerating Drydock Repairs - 2/23/2020 7:28:51 PM   
rustysi


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I'll try again




< Message edited by rustysi -- 2/23/2020 7:31:42 PM >


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It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

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