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[Logged] Sparrow missiles lose the guide after launching

 
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[Logged] Sparrow missiles lose the guide after launching - 2/16/2020 9:16:48 PM   
gsalvar

 

Posts: 55
Joined: 10/22/2017
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when a sparrow missile is launched and after a couple of seconds , missile runs blind and dissapear.
Seems fighter can not maintain the ilumination to the SARH missile.

I noticed this in a scenary I was playing and after migrate to 1121.9.
In 1121.8 I dont remenber similar case.

I just check this with a simple example attached.
Blue SARH missiles lose the radar ilumination after being launched.

thanks.





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< Message edited by apache85 -- 2/20/2020 2:17:29 AM >
Post #: 1
RE: Sparrow missiles lose the guide after launching - 2/16/2020 9:33:13 PM   
AndrewJ

 

Posts: 1970
Joined: 1/5/2014
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In this case your Sparrow missile has a range of 38 nm, but the target is 49 nm away. It shouldn't even be firing at that range. (Out of range shots are a bug which has been noted before.)

The loss of lock seems to happen when the target's course is roughly perpendicular to yours. What's probably happening is that the enemy is "notching" your doppler radar. When the enemy's course is perpendicular to yours its doppler return is the same as the doppler return from the surroundings, so the radar considers the contact to be part of the background, rather than a valid target. Notching is a real-world tactic, and loss of contact in those conditions is realistic.

Edit: if you set the MiG on a fixed course that isn't perpendicular to the F-15's course, and disable its evasion to prevent it from notching, then you can see that the missile will have good illumination all the way to the target.

< Message edited by AndrewJ -- 2/16/2020 9:37:36 PM >

(in reply to gsalvar)
Post #: 2
RE: Sparrow missiles lose the guide after launching - 2/17/2020 3:59:43 PM   
gsalvar

 

Posts: 55
Joined: 10/22/2017
Status: offline
For me something is not working properly.

In previuos versions I neved had such fails rate with the sparrows.
In fact, in the attached scenery ALL the sparrow lose their targets because are blind (CAP mission). It doesnt make sense.





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< Message edited by gsalvar -- 2/17/2020 5:12:16 PM >

(in reply to AndrewJ)
Post #: 3
RE: Sparrow missiles lose the guide after launching - 2/17/2020 8:55:24 PM   
AndrewJ

 

Posts: 1970
Joined: 1/5/2014
Status: offline
I think a couple of things may be happening.

First, there are three Paint Box jammers and two Badger jammers in the field of view of your F-15s' radars, and I think they may be causing some of the problem. So I made a modified version of your save, removing the jammers, as well as the nearby SAMs and all long-ranged missiles on the enemy aircraft. This should remove many of the variables from the test (no jamming, no dodging incoming shots, etc.).

Even with the jammers gone, I had Sparrows going blind on essentially all the shots. Sometimes the missiles would recover and start tracking again, but often they would not. Each time a missile went blind, or recovered from being blind, I compared their courses to see what the relative angle was. Here's an example of the results. Eight missiles fired had nine blindness events. Only one managed to engage its target.

Blind 94.8º - unblind 81.1º
Blind 84.2º - unblind 82.3º
Blind 71.5º - lost
Blind 96.0º - unblind 101.2º
Blind 84.7º - lost
Blind 108.8º - lost
Blind 71.0º - lost
Blind 71.0º - lost
Blind 75.7º - unblind 72º

If you plot the relative courses on a compass rose you get this:



So you can see that the blindness seems to be happening when the courses are roughly 90º +/- 20º. Presumably, this would correspond with the 'doppler notch'. (The cluster at 71º seems suggestive of a zone boundary.)

What puzzles me is that in many cases the missiles would come un-blind when they were still within the notch. And in some cases the missiles would fly within the notch for a long time without going blind. Perhaps it's not an automatic effect, and there's only a small chance of losing lock within the notch, which is checked repeatedly during flight?

I certainly agree that this is a lot more blindness than I recall seeing before. Perhaps that's because I like to micromanage my aircraft. If a closing target's bearing is moving to my right I tend to crank left, and vice versa, putting us on opposing courses, and relying on my radar's ability to look sideways to maintain lock. This not only reduces my rate of closure, and leaves me well positioned to extend and escape, but it would also reduce the likelihood of having a relative course within the notch.

On the other hand, maybe something has changed, and the blindness calculations deserve a look.
(I've attached the test scenario.)



Attachment (1)

(in reply to gsalvar)
Post #: 4
RE: Sparrow missiles lose the guide after launching - 2/19/2020 5:19:16 PM   
gsalvar

 

Posts: 55
Joined: 10/22/2017
Status: offline
First of all, thanks for the time spent testing the scenery.
I agree with you that the sarh missile behavior is at least strange, losing the lock, running blind, reacquiring the lock again....

For now I will wait if there are other users who report an analogous problem before reporting a bug to devs.
I will try other scenarios that use SARH missiles.

Thanks for all this good info.
regards.

(in reply to AndrewJ)
Post #: 5
RE: Sparrow missiles lose the guide after launching - 2/20/2020 2:17:40 AM   
Rory Noonan

 

Posts: 2563
Joined: 12/18/2014
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline
Logged for investigation.

0013645

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(in reply to gsalvar)
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