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[Logged] Main menu remaining on screen when entering scenario

 
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[Logged] Main menu remaining on screen when entering sc... - 2/13/2020 5:12:54 AM   
Aarnoman

 

Posts: 16
Joined: 2/4/2020
Status: offline
CMO Version: v1.01 - Build 1121.8

Steps to reproduce:
1) Start CMO. Enter any scenario.
2) Click View -> Message log in seperate window.
3) With the message log as seperate window, exit the game.
4) Start CMO.
5) Enter any scenario.
6) The main menu screen will now block the game screen.

Notes: Sometimes Alt+Tabbing makes the blocking main menu screen smaller, allowing you to resize it. However, it cannot be moved.

This bug currently renders the game close to unplayable.

Only definitive fix is to delete \Config\Command.ini

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by apache85 -- 2/20/2020 2:26:57 AM >
Post #: 1
RE: Main menu remaining on screen when entering scenario - 2/13/2020 6:14:16 AM   
Randomizer


Posts: 1332
Joined: 6/28/2008
Status: online
Cannot reproduce this, latest build in Win-7

That said, you know what actions cause the issue on your machine. If you avoid those particular actions the issue goes away. So why the f would you repeat actions that you know are bound to cause issues and then claim that CMO is unplayable?

The only definitive fix is DO SOMETHING ELSE. Insanity is repeating the same actions while expecting different results. I suspect it's not CMO that's broken here.

Patient: Doctor, when I shove a bamboo skewer in my ear it hurts.
Doctor: Well then, stop sticking bamboo skewers in your ear and the problem solves itself.
Patient: Why would I want to stop when I can come here and complain?

-C

(in reply to Aarnoman)
Post #: 2
RE: Main menu remaining on screen when entering scenario - 2/13/2020 6:45:57 AM   
Aarnoman

 

Posts: 16
Joined: 2/4/2020
Status: offline
Thanks for the antagonism. Sorry for expecting things like a working UI from a game I paid $100 for that's been in development for a considerable time. But yes, the issue is clearly myself here.

I'll see myself out. Thanks for ensuring this community remains niche.

(in reply to Randomizer)
Post #: 3
RE: Main menu remaining on screen when entering scenario - 2/13/2020 10:32:33 AM   
thewood1

 

Posts: 4603
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: online
While the report is good. I agree with Random-man that if a specific sequence cause an issue, don't do that. I hardly think hyperbole like saying its unplayable buys you any credibility. In fact saying its unplayable is pretty antagonistic and you sometimes reap what you sow.

(in reply to Aarnoman)
Post #: 4
RE: Main menu remaining on screen when entering scenario - 2/13/2020 11:23:47 AM   
Dimitris


Posts: 12069
Joined: 7/31/2005
Status: online
This thread was spawned from a previous discussion at the Discord channel. I am reposting it here to provide better context.









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Post #: 5
RE: Main menu remaining on screen when entering scenario - 2/13/2020 4:58:22 PM   
rmwilsonjr

 

Posts: 74
Joined: 1/8/2011
Status: offline
This is the same issue I reported last night under the caption “Build 1128.1 Persistent Spinning Globe”. Apologies, but I don’t know the difference between “Main Menu” or “Start Menu” but thought everyone would know the screen with the spinning globe.

(in reply to Aarnoman)
Post #: 6
RE: Main menu remaining on screen when entering scenario - 2/14/2020 2:35:08 AM   
Tailhook

 

Posts: 287
Joined: 1/18/2015
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Randomizer

Cannot reproduce this, latest build in Win-7

That said, you know what actions cause the issue on your machine. If you avoid those particular actions the issue goes away. So why the f would you repeat actions that you know are bound to cause issues and then claim that CMO is unplayable?

The only definitive fix is DO SOMETHING ELSE. Insanity is repeating the same actions while expecting different results. I suspect it's not CMO that's broken here.

Patient: Doctor, when I shove a bamboo skewer in my ear it hurts.
Doctor: Well then, stop sticking bamboo skewers in your ear and the problem solves itself.
Patient: Why would I want to stop when I can come here and complain?

-C

This is a pretty unnecessary reaction. His "insanity" tips are actually a really common way of playing the game, and anything but unreasonable.

(in reply to Randomizer)
Post #: 7
RE: Main menu remaining on screen when entering scenario - 2/14/2020 4:45:12 AM   
Dimitris


Posts: 12069
Joined: 7/31/2005
Status: online
And _of course_ the by-now classic parting shot, a negative Steam review: https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198050858107/recommended/1076160/

Gotta say, that makes me really appreciate all the attention I and others gave to him at Discord.

< Message edited by Dimitris -- 2/14/2020 12:27:38 PM >


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Post #: 8
RE: Main menu remaining on screen when entering scenario - 2/14/2020 5:02:31 AM   
Dimitris


Posts: 12069
Joined: 7/31/2005
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tailhook
This is a pretty unnecessary reaction. His "insanity" tips are actually a really common way of playing the game, and anything but unreasonable.


What about his hangup on the hotkey bug, and his insistence that it takes priority over everything else? You think that's reasonable?

< Message edited by Dimitris -- 2/14/2020 5:09:58 AM >


_____________________________


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Post #: 9
RE: Main menu remaining on screen when entering scenario - 2/14/2020 9:45:49 AM   
Aarnoman

 

Posts: 16
Joined: 2/4/2020
Status: offline
I have a few points to make:
1) When have you, or anyone else, provided me any help on discord? I'm the one who took four plus hours out of my life writing bug reports for you guys.
2) Did you expect a positive steam review for a game costing $100 that can't get simple UI elements working? No, and I stand by that.
3) I'm hung up on the hotkey bug as it would most likely take less time to fix than you writing the above two posts complaining about me.

But sure, feel free to play the victim here.
I'll be sure to link this thread on the steam review so people can make up their own mind on whether they want to support this type of developer. And thanks for turning this bugthread into an entirely off topic rant.

You guys are an absolute class act.

(in reply to Dimitris)
Post #: 10
RE: Main menu remaining on screen when entering scenario - 2/14/2020 10:46:48 AM   
Surtur

 

Posts: 418
Joined: 8/6/2013
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline
Aarnoman,

We are sorry you feel the purchase has not been worth the money, but we would like you to watch your tone. WarfareSims works around the clock to bring people patches, updates and new content it what can easily be described as one of the deepest and most complex simulations of modern warfare that currently exists on the market.

As Dimitris has stated, your issues have been logged and are in the queue for the team to work on. If this is not sufficient for you, that is fine. We will stay here fixing the game and giving people patches and updates.

In addition, the responsibility of prioritizing bug reports and allocating resources for their resolution rests squarely with Dimitris and his dev team. For example, when you and others reported the issue with Tacview contacts not appearing correctly, they marked it as high priority and fixed it ASAP. Other issues like the hotkey thing that you mentioned have lower priority and will take longer to get to.

There is no need for a toxic attitude like this on the forums.

- Surtur

_____________________________

- Slitherine Group Producer -
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Steam

(in reply to Aarnoman)
Post #: 11
RE: Main menu remaining on screen when entering scenario - 2/14/2020 11:30:41 AM   
ultradave


Posts: 1252
Joined: 8/20/2013
Status: offline
From the steam review of C:MANO - the AI is easy to trick?

This has obviously eluded me because I continually get my ass handed to me. At least in complex scenarios

Which is a tribute to the scenario designers and their use of missions taking advantage of, from what I can see, is a quite capable AI model. And my lack of talent as theater level commander :-)

_____________________________

----------------
Dave A.
"When the Boogeyman goes to sleep he checks his closet for paratroopers"

(in reply to Surtur)
Post #: 12
RE: Main menu remaining on screen when entering scenario - 2/14/2020 11:54:40 AM   
LetMePickThat

 

Posts: 9
Joined: 3/14/2019
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aarnoman

I have a few points to make:
1) When have you, or anyone else, provided me any help on discord? I'm the one who took four plus hours out of my life writing bug reports for you guys.


And I'm sure they are very thankful for your time.
Regarding Discord, I was there and myself sent you a message about solving your bug. I was also in the process of writing you a private message when you abruptly left the CMO server, so I stopped in the middle of it. And I'm pretty sure that I was not alone.


quote:


2) Did you expect a positive steam review for a game costing $100 that can't get simple UI elements working? No, and I stand by that.


Do you have any knowledge of how software development works? Your UI bug, while annoying, isn't a game-breaking issue that will be prioritized over more pressing matters. There are other ways to mark a target "unfriendly" than using Ctrl+H. Just now, I can think of at least two others. If there are two easy workarounds for a trivial issue like this one, it won't be solved in the minut, you have to admit that. And this is true of every software, for every company. I could point you to Excel or SAP bugs that have been here for literally decades, and are still not fixed.

Also, please find me a comparable software for less than $100. Go ahead, take your time.
Truth is, CMO isn't a game, or at least should not be considered as one. It is a complex, intricate piece of software that was developped for professionnal and that is offered for the general public. It comes with bugs, but that's mainly because of its sheer complexity.

You don't buy, play or even review CMO based on how polished it looks, but rather because of its complexity, thruthfulness and underlying models. Harpoon was a mess, it was loved by the players. Same about Dangerous Waters or, even today, games like DCS or IL-2.

quote:


3) I'm hung up on the hotkey bug as it would most likely take less time to fix than you writing the above two posts complaining about me.


That you can't know for sure. I was lucky enough to have a sneak peak at how WS tackled a bug a few days ago, and let me tell you that what may look like a trivial issue might wery well be a never-ending pit of suffering and agony. Not to mention that the people writing here are not the ones who are actually coding the game, so there's clearly no mis-allocation of ressources here.

Also, maybe that solving your bug will be trivial. It nontheless comes after the older bugs of the same caliber, which themselves come after the few non-trivial issues that actually break the game. Your bug is quite recent, and will have to wait regardless of how easy it would be to solve it.

quote:


But sure, feel free to play the victim here.


Thing is, you did not leave anyone the time to really help you back there on the Discord.
You posted your first message at 07h00 reporting various bugs, and had already left the server by 8h40. How are people supposed to help you in such a short timeframe? I was literally in the process of writing you something when you abruptly left. So yeah, leaving the place where you're supposed to get help after ranting there, then playing the victim is, let me say it, quite funny.
Not to mention that the devs have a right to be pissed off when you post a review commenting on issues, while you precisely left the Discord server on which people were trying to help you with those very issues.


quote:


I'll be sure to link this thread on the steam review so people can make up their own mind on whether they want to support this type of developer.


So you don't mind if I quote your haughty messages here, so that they can make up their own mind with all the information at hand? Stating things like "I don't understand why such a simple problem still hasn't been fixed" and not expecting a cold reaction from the devs seems like a pretty optimistic thing to do.

quote:


And thanks for turning this bugthread into an entirely off topic rant.


Sorry, but what did you just do by posting this very message?


quote:


You guys are an absolute class act.


I find it funny when people come, complain about an issue then get pissed off when being told that this issue will have to wait for older ones to be solved first. You're not more important than other people and their own problems, and temporary dismissing your issue about the Cterl+H not working was the most logical thing to do given how easy it is to circumvent it and how little use this particular command have ingame anyway.

You're talking about the devs lacking class, but here you are, posting a negative review on Steam based on a trivial, non-game breaking issue that cannot be solved at the moment, minutes after rage-quitting a server on which people, including other players like me, were trying to help you navigate around your problem. Talk about class...

(in reply to Aarnoman)
Post #: 13
RE: Main menu remaining on screen when entering scenario - 2/14/2020 3:29:52 PM   
morphin

 

Posts: 382
Joined: 4/26/2002
From: Switzerland
Status: offline
I have still problems sometimes to edit a scenario. It will not load. The solution from Micheal (https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4762773) seems not always to work.




< Message edited by morphin -- 2/14/2020 3:34:22 PM >

(in reply to LetMePickThat)
Post #: 14
RE: Main menu remaining on screen when entering scenario - 2/14/2020 11:22:02 PM   
michaelm75au


Posts: 12780
Joined: 5/5/2001
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline
Is when using the new release 1121.9?

quote:

ORIGINAL: morphin

I have still problems sometimes to edit a scenario. It will not load. The solution from Micheal (https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4762773) seems not always to work.


If you re-attach the log window and then exit Command, can you edit the scenario on reload?

< Message edited by michaelm75au -- 2/14/2020 11:45:59 PM >


_____________________________

Michael

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Post #: 15
RE: Main menu remaining on screen when entering scenario - 2/15/2020 5:13:10 AM   
Aarnoman

 

Posts: 16
Joined: 2/4/2020
Status: offline
quote:

You're talking about the devs lacking class, but here you are, posting a negative review on Steam based on a trivial, non-game breaking issue that cannot be solved at the moment, minutes after rage-quitting a server on which people, including other players like me, were trying to help you navigate around your problem. Talk about class...

I'm basing my review on the fact that some of these issues persisted since the release 3 months ago. Part of my frustration is directed at the obstacles placed in reporting a bug in the forums (please check my post history - in all previous cases I was unable to provide links/post images due to the restrictions for new accounts on the forum). According to Dimitris the forum team was going to sort that out, but sure enough, nothing ever came of it.

I have worked to report bugs for many games previously - mostly EA titles - and fully understand the need to prioritise certain bugs over others. I have also worked in software development previously - specifically as a programmer - so I understand the challenges entailed.

The handling of this by Dimitris was simply the straw that broke the camels back.

Ultimately, I would not consider UI bugs that prevent you playing the game without deleting core game files as a "minor" bug, especially for any new players that do not know where the configuration files are in the first place.



< Message edited by Aarnoman -- 2/15/2020 5:14:51 AM >

(in reply to LetMePickThat)
Post #: 16
RE: Main menu remaining on screen when entering scenario - 2/15/2020 6:18:56 AM   
Dimitris


Posts: 12069
Joined: 7/31/2005
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aarnoman
Ultimately, I would not consider UI bugs that prevent you playing the game without deleting core game files as a "minor" bug, especially for any new players that do not know where the configuration files are in the first place.


If you are going to accuse the dev team as "negligent on critical issues", you should start by not getting your bug reports mixed up:

1) The "UI blocked on startup if player has previously enabled detached message log" issue is new, and appeared on a build released this last Thursday. It is treated as a serious issue because of its effect, and it has been given high priority by the development team (we already released a public beta with a tweak for it, _one day after the issue report_, and we are still actively investigating).

2) The "hotkey for marking contact unfriendly not working" bug is the 3-months old report. It is considered minor as it has a minor effect on gameplay and there is an easy workaround for it (use the right mouse button), so it has a low priority.

You can love us or leave us for it, but this is the state of things.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts" (Daniel Patrick Moynihan)

- An Absolute Class Act

< Message edited by Dimitris -- 2/15/2020 6:29:17 AM >


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Post #: 17
RE: Main menu remaining on screen when entering scenario - 2/15/2020 8:08:08 AM   
Aarnoman

 

Posts: 16
Joined: 2/4/2020
Status: offline
quote:

1) The "UI blocked on startup if player has previously enabled detached message log" issue is new, and appeared on a build released this last Thursday. It is treated as a serious issue because of its effect, and it has been given high priority by the development team (we already released a public beta with a tweak for it, _one day after the issue report_, and we are still actively investigating).

Good to hear.
quote:

2) The "hotkey for marking contact unfriendly not working" bug is the 3-months old report. It is considered minor as it has a minor effect on gameplay and there is an easy workaround for it (use the right mouse button), so it has a low priority.

No, I'm not getting my bugs mixed up. I was talking about UI issues - my previous bug report on the multiple screen UI issue (which was present at release of CMO and fixed in the current patch) was what I was referring to. I'm well aware that the issue that this bug report we are in has only occured after the last update - trading one UI issue for another.
That is indeed the state of things.

(in reply to Dimitris)
Post #: 18
RE: Main menu remaining on screen when entering scenario - 2/15/2020 8:19:18 AM   
Aarnoman

 

Posts: 16
Joined: 2/4/2020
Status: offline
I appreciate your reponse. How do you feel about Dimitris behaviour? [see attachment]

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 19
RE: Main menu remaining on screen when entering scenario - 2/15/2020 11:50:11 AM   
thewood1

 

Posts: 4603
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: online
This is just about as classless as you get. And I'm not talking about Dimitris.

Let me know if the game is still unplayable. I'll venmo you the cost and you send me the serial number with the promise not to play or post.


(in reply to Aarnoman)
Post #: 20
RE: Main menu remaining on screen when entering scenario - 2/15/2020 2:40:57 PM   
stilesw


Posts: 1251
Joined: 6/26/2014
From: Hansville, WA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

How do you feel about Dimitris behaviour?


Actually, very professional and responsive. He heads a superb team of professional software developers responsible for creating and maintaining an exceptionally complex simulation.

Having been a programmer [your comment] I have to assume you have created applications beyond “Hello World” so you should have some appreciation for what is involved. Similarly, based on your overall commentary I must assume you are unsatisfied because everything you ever developed was bug free and worked flawlessly from its inception.

D. may suffer from having a very high threshold for what can best be described as “suffering fools poorly” and you have managed to exceed it.

(in reply to Aarnoman)
Post #: 21
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