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Interception and Damage Question of Invasion Fleet

 
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Interception and Damage Question of Invasion Fleet - 2/10/2020 9:41:57 PM   
ago1000


Posts: 387
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From: Canada
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Trying to calculate possible interception and damage values. Just wondering if this is correct?
Search Box
0-5% (1), 1-15%, 2-25%. 3-37%, 4-48%, 5-60%, 6-78%, 7-85%, 8-90%, 9-95% (2)
-each distance to target = -1
10 – 2 = 8 so 90% chance from search box

Modifiers
- Raider mode = 0 (invasion so not applicable, not on raider mode, so 0)
-Enemy fleet being on or near your friendly controlled hexes reduces the effective distance based on how many friendly controlled hexes they are next to or on. (not applicable-no friendly hexes)
-Naval group current ID level(0-3): 0 just moved into area - low - says on screen
-20 air strength intercepting-+1 for each 3 air strength = +6 (now chance is 96%)
-+1 for each Naval groups in fleet = +6 (now chance 102%)

At 102%, patrolling air interception will occur for sure, therefore 1 hit will be assigned to invading fleet.

Target Profile 1 - 16
BB: 1 2 3 4 (25% chance) 6 / 6 strength
CA: 5 6 (12.5% chance) 5 / 5 strength
DD 1: 7 (6.25% chance) 5/5 strength
DD 2: 8 (6.25% chance) 5/5 strength
Transport 1: 9 10 11 12 (25% chance) 30/30 strength
Transport 2: 13 14 15 16 (25% chance) 30/30 strength

Scenario 1: random number 15 occurs – 1 hit sinks transport 2. Interception/Combat complete.

Scenario 2: random number 3 occurs – 1 hit on BB grp,
Critical hit roll (30%) 1-3 yes, 4- 10 no, roll is a 3, critical hit, 2 x 1 hit is to be applied to BB grp = 2 hits
2nd Critical roll (10%) 1 yes, 2 – 10 no, roll is a 1, 2nd critical hit occurs, 2 x 2 hits = 4 strength hits.
Combat ends.
The BB group is reduced to 2/6 strength. Interception/Combat complete.

Question 1: Is this correct?

Question 2: Does a ship's targeting profile change if it sustains damage?






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< Message edited by ago1000 -- 2/10/2020 10:30:13 PM >


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RE: Interception and Damage Question of Invasion Fleet - 2/10/2020 11:01:18 PM   
battlevonwar


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Ago1000,

It's been 30 years since I've not used a calculator or spreadsheet. Simplify for me please!

I will give you an example:

I invade Germany with 2 10 strength corps with intercepting bombers, 2 Tac Groups full action points, strength, good effectiveness...interception! (3 times, all 3 times success)

2. Second Instance I run Sea Lion, nothing is intercepted by Ground Attack Bombers. Full HP, Full AP, good effectiness.( 0 times out of 5 tries)

Any reason for this?




(in reply to ago1000)
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RE: Interception and Damage Question of Invasion Fleet - 2/10/2020 11:26:57 PM   
ago1000


Posts: 387
Joined: 8/6/2004
From: Canada
Status: offline
I would love to try but you will need to provide a little more info. I will assume certain things.

Example 1: The air unit is within range (10 hexes or less), I'd assume close. If you are invading with a single infantry unit on transport, and the interception is happening almost all the time, I'm assuming it similar to the pic above without the supporting ships. The beach your invading is close to the 2 Tac Groups (maybe 3 or less away from the beach) and your getting a very high percentage of interception(90-100+). Then the only ship that can take the one hit will be the infantry unit on transport. It will be sunk 90-100+ % all the time if its the only ship in the fleet with the single hit.

Example 2: Great question. The type of bomber should not effect interception unless it's been coded that way. Ground Support, Tactical Bombers intercept while Strategic Bombers do not. Even if they are the only aircraft in the area and in full support mode. That's from the testing I just completed following the same situation above. I will need to check the manual on that. Strategic Bombers have an naval attack of 1. Maybe a bug or coded that way. Not sure.



< Message edited by ago1000 -- 2/11/2020 12:19:06 AM >


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RE: Interception and Damage Question of Invasion Fleet - 2/11/2020 3:48:46 AM   
ago1000


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From: Canada
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I think I'm seeing your point with example 1 also. In this pic, the distance of all 5 close support air is 7 units from invasion hex.
10-7 = 3 so interception is 37% + 6% air strength + 1 naval grp or 44% (almost 50% chance of a hit). Every time I run the test, the air units sink all my transports, all the time.





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RE: Interception and Damage Question of Invasion Fleet - 2/11/2020 3:53:30 AM   
AlvaroSousa


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Look just keep this simple. If you landing point is near where enemy fleets and are are going to be you have a high chance of being intercepted. If you are not it is a less chance. But on their turn the closer you are to their coast the greater chance of being spotted and killed.

So bottom line.... if you want to do an invasion of the UK as Germany you have to...
#1 wipe out or more likely suppress their air force.
#2 pick a small invasion area using your fleet, perhaps 3 landing spots since Germany has ~6 ships leaving 2 escorts each.
#3 Use your subs to counter intercept
#4 Use your hopefully still working air force to counter intercept

And no a ship doesn't have a change in the targeting profile if damaged unless it is a sub attacking a fleet with a damaged carrier.




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Designer of the Strategic Command 2 products
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- Assault on Communism
- Assault on Democracy

Designer of the Strategic Command 3 products
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(in reply to ago1000)
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RE: Interception and Damage Question of Invasion Fleet - 2/11/2020 10:54:12 AM   
ago1000


Posts: 387
Joined: 8/6/2004
From: Canada
Status: offline
Thank you both for your responses. I simply want to explain why I ask?
@Battlevonwar
Didn't know that strats didn't intercept.
@Alvaro
I understand your response and thank you. I come from a time where CRT tables ruled too. Based on an understanding of the mechanics and rules of a game, you will devise a strategy. However, with the age of computers, most games have the basics rules explained in a manual, but the actual calculations, combat results are all done for you, under the hood. You've done an excellent job in explaining the rules. Thanks once again.

My point is this, if I'm told that the distance from a hex will effect the % chance of interception of invading fleet, then I would arrange my air units accordingly as a defense. Close to invasion hexes (coast) to ensure interception and inflict maximum damage to an invading fleet and protect those bombers with fighter cover knowing full well they will be harassed by enemy air.

However, if distance has no impact, and interception is automatic, then I would locate air units far enough away from other air units to prevent them from being attacked while covering as much coast as possible with their radius. Furthermore, I will use those aircraft with the maximum range 10, in this case Tactical Bombers, to intercept invading forces.

That's why I ask.






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RE: Interception and Damage Question of Invasion Fleet - 2/11/2020 11:27:44 AM   
battlevonwar


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Actually ago1000 and Alvaro I think that it's me that has the issue. I had set to mission only with Naval Interdiction and I wasn't interdiction "ANYTHING!"

I ran a naval invasion of the British Isles 4-5 times with 3 German Divisions, brought fleets. The Tactical Groups never intervened even set to Naval Interdiction. ( I thought my patch was broken a moment what is this? Surely they must catch something? )

Hadn't thought the scenario default for 1940 would be precisely Mission Only which seems to forgo interdiction of Naval Fleets meanwhile the Axis Tac Air was set to Full Support.

Great work ago1000 and thank you for the suggestion Alvaro. Learning about the new mechanics is daunting I think this subject is good. Nobody wants to see a Corp hit the bottom and not do the best they could do to protect it!




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< Message edited by battlevonwar -- 2/11/2020 11:37:19 AM >

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RE: Interception and Damage Question of Invasion Fleet - 2/11/2020 12:55:09 PM   
AlvaroSousa


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ago1000
My point is this, if I'm told that the distance from a hex will effect the % chance of interception of invading fleet, then I would arrange my air units accordingly as a defense. Close to invasion hexes (coast) to ensure interception and inflict maximum damage to an invading fleet and protect those bombers with fighter cover knowing full well they will be harassed by enemy air.

However, if distance has no impact, and interception is automatic, then I would locate air units far enough away from other air units to prevent them from being attacked while covering as much coast as possible with their radius. Furthermore, I will use those aircraft with the maximum range 10, in this case Tactical Bombers, to intercept invading forces.

That's why I ask.



That is correct. I don't want players min-maxxing the game. I have played in enough of these that it isn't fun playing a player who min-maxxes because they know all the cheezes. So WarPlan has the math but it is designed that a strategic mind without doing all sorts of math can play do well and have fun.

So you got the basic premise of it. I had to really think what was fair for interception for the game.


< Message edited by Alvaro Sousa -- 2/11/2020 12:56:16 PM >


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Games worked on

Designer of the Strategic Command 2 products
- Brute Force (mod)
- Assault on Communism
- Assault on Democracy

Designer of the Strategic Command 3 products
- Map Image Importer

(in reply to ago1000)
Post #: 8
RE: Interception and Damage Question of Invasion Fleet - 2/11/2020 2:59:32 PM   
ago1000


Posts: 387
Joined: 8/6/2004
From: Canada
Status: offline
Once again, thanks for the responses gentlemen. I'm going to agree to disagree with you on this Alvaro. I only play against the AI and never try to play gamey. However, I do like to plan my invasions and have an idea of what percentage of units(AIR, NAVAL, INF) I may lose and try to minimize that number.



< Message edited by ago1000 -- 2/11/2020 3:58:23 PM >


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RE: Interception and Damage Question of Invasion Fleet - 2/11/2020 7:40:16 PM   
AlvaroSousa


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After my 4 multiplayer games so I can look at balance I will go back and play 4 A.I. games and see where I can improve.

Just think of how many landing craft you need..... add 30%
Think of how many planes you need for rough parity.... add 50%
Think of how many ships you need for rough parity... add 50%

Now you are ready to invade with no issues.

_____________________________

Games worked on

Designer of the Strategic Command 2 products
- Brute Force (mod)
- Assault on Communism
- Assault on Democracy

Designer of the Strategic Command 3 products
- Map Image Importer

(in reply to ago1000)
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