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Battle of the Atlantic Problems

 
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Battle of the Atlantic Problems - 2/4/2020 12:42:00 AM   
hansondavid4

 

Posts: 33
Joined: 11/10/2019
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There seems to be a problem with the build times between U-Boats, Escorts and Merchant Shipping. Both from a game stand point and historic stand point.

A quick analysis from wiki (god help me for ever saying that... thankfully I only typed it)
Type VIIC U-boats took about 11 months from being laid down to commission.
Destroyer Escorts USS- Berkley class took about 7 months from being laid down to commission.
Liberty ships were being completed in an average 40ish days by war ends. Figure mid war a bit longer and some time for training of a new crew mirroring commissioning lets call it around 5-6 months.

So if Subs take 100 days in Warplan, it would be reasonable to expect Escorts to table 70ish days and Merchant Marines to take 50ish days.

As a game there is a bit problem. The UK has a rock scissors, paper game to play to counter the Axis strategy before it being revealed. In the German going to go for Sea-lion(Rock), Battle of Atlantic (Scissors), or laser focus east (Paper). With the long lead times for escort and Merchant ships, if you build infantry to counter Sea-lion and the axis builds his sub fleet up. Your convoys will be decimated. You fail to build adequate infantry, Germany can overrun England or Egypt.

If you invest heavy in escorts they provide no benefit if the German do not pursue a sub war and they become a sunk cost... I think from a game prospective, the UK needs some flexibility to be able to react. The long lead time (180 days for Merchants which you can only build one a turn) is pretty punishing.
Post #: 1
RE: Battle of the Atlantic Problems - 2/4/2020 1:00:04 AM   
Cohen_slith

 

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Joined: 10/5/2010
From: Italy
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Currently UK got a hefty boost in production.
I am giving a try against submarines and the like right now being the Allies and indeed shipping is getting pummelled, and hard too.
But it's early 40 and my opponent has also built some extra submarines besides the initial ones.

So time will tell how things pan out.

Right now the RAF has been expanded, Sea Lion not attempted as AA guns were built in all ports to the south, and troops were placed, with ships in positions all with night move not to get bombed, but ready to intercept.
The UK is doing some oversea expeditions as well to help Spain and North Afrika (Vichy), invaded Sirya (Vichy), secured already Iran and Iraq, and seized Crete (whilst Axis is invading Greece).

Ontop of that, Uk is getting ready to secure Azores just in case, for Portugal comes next to Spain.

(in reply to hansondavid4)
Post #: 2
RE: Battle of the Atlantic Problems - 2/4/2020 1:20:16 AM   
battlevonwar


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Joined: 12/22/2011
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Somewhere I ran the math(which is probably off for 1939-early 40) that 1 Sub unit can take out 3%^ of the Shipment of the British economy. Until UK bombers take up position to limit their actions. The Germans would have to buy Oilers and since they really cannot base in France(if bombed in port that doesn't have good defense they run the gauntlet of being hammered by the English Isles/Iceland Bomber if placed there...

It's uncertain to me if that 3% can be maintained after 1940.

10% is good with what you get as the Axis but an investment of how many more U-boats-Repairs-Oilers is required to maintain it or increase it? Seems that Gibraltar would be required to make this strategy more viable.

(in reply to Cohen_slith)
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RE: Battle of the Atlantic Problems - 2/4/2020 1:43:48 AM   
hansondavid4

 

Posts: 33
Joined: 11/10/2019
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In current game I am playing hotseat, it is November 1941 and the axis are going for a 1942 Barbarossa. Axis took Spain, Gibralter and kick the UK out of North Africa. The Axis was stopped at Qattara Depression. UK units that were in North Africa withdrew to Egypt. Both sides have a strong defense in the bottleneck.

The bulk of Axis air in on the French Coast bombing UK factories. Italy has invested in escort fighters (both planes and research scrapping the at start interceptor). The 3 German and 4 Italian subs have been enough to cause havoc on the convoy lines. UK is down to 54 MM and 8 escort. They are using US MM to supplement and have about 30 US MM reserve. Axis are sinking 8-10 MM a turn. The US and UK have had to invest 1800 production in MM in the pipe 800 production in escorts which are just starting to arrive.

The allies have had to devote a lot of resources and the UK has been badly damaged economically that the west allies are going to be quite far back going into the midgame. Soviets are going to be strong, but the German army is also going to be very strong as well. The axis will have 15 Panzer Corp and 100's of supply trucks to keep them strong. They have been pumping out an aver of 1 large inf corp per turn for two years. The Luftwaffe and Regia Aeronautica have been built up to pretty high experience as have the German army with many Infantry Corp well up in the 70's for experience. I worry that is the axis can break the Soviet defense, the western allies will not be able to mount an real offense or have the merchant fleet to provide lend lease. It could be the Soviets will be too strong for the axis, 1942 will be decisive.


(in reply to battlevonwar)
Post #: 4
RE: Battle of the Atlantic Problems - 2/4/2020 2:20:40 AM   
battlevonwar


Posts: 886
Joined: 12/22/2011
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Seems like you know what you can do there. Quite well given the right opportunity.

(in reply to hansondavid4)
Post #: 5
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