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RE: December. - 2/5/2020 2:07:51 PM   
Flaviusx


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UK merchant marine situation is super bad. You may well cripple them with just that alone.

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RE: December. - 2/5/2020 7:33:55 PM   
battlevonwar


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+2

Was hoping the UK could hold onto Gibraltar longer or Greece. Zero UK merchant Marine, doesn't need to be invaded, just ignored.

< Message edited by battlevonwar -- 2/5/2020 7:34:12 PM >

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RE: December. - 2/5/2020 8:00:00 PM   
Michael T


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Your opponents view that the game is so biased toward the Allies is not holding much water ATM.

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RE: December. - 2/5/2020 10:13:08 PM   
battlevonwar


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Yes but had he fought for France ... Spain may have been impossible and Greece expensive.

The same amount of casualties taken by the Allies at this point could of been taken by July/August 1940 in France itself. Therefore Spain and Greece together would be an expensive adventure. I wonder if tyronec would have launched Spain invasion if that was the case? It can 5-6 game turns to repair a battered luftwaffe/wermacht. Leaving operations into '41 only?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T

Your opponents view that the game is so biased toward the Allies is not holding much water ATM.


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RE: December. - 2/6/2020 7:19:59 AM   
tyronec


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quote:

Your opponents view that the game is so biased toward the Allies is not holding much water ATM.

I would have conceded as Allies once Gibraltar went but his decision to continue or not. Am expecting a Barbarossa that is already loaded in Axis favor.

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RE: December. - 2/6/2020 9:00:55 AM   
Cohen_slith

 

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The real problem is how Naval business works.

The Royal Navy is unable to catch the Axis fleets - to the extent that there is a landing in Newfoundland now.
To have more BBs or CVs matters nothing when fleets zap across ocean, and all the results are 'Enemy Fleet not found'.
And once a port is taken that is in permanent supply. Even if there is the whole ocean in the middle.

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RE: December. - 2/6/2020 9:45:21 AM   
tyronec


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quote:

The real problem is how Naval business works.

The Royal Navy is unable to catch the Axis fleets - to the extent that there is a landing in Newfoundland now.
To have more BBs or CVs matters nothing when fleets zap across ocean, and all the results are 'Enemy Fleet not found'.
And once a port is taken that is in permanent supply. Even if there is the whole ocean in the middle.

Would agree that this game has shown up a few difficulties with the naval war.
My surface fleets have been able to avoid the RN by ending their moves out of attack range.
Sub war is difficult to counter in '39/'40.
On the other hand Carriers are a bit of a super weapon. In one attack they moved next to a port and sank the sub there despite 6AA defending. If they lose a few aircraft in the process it costs them nothing. I have not even tried to attack a carrier because even with a large fleet of battleships the chances are you will not find them, and using aircraft to attack is generally poor odds of finding and no certainty of a result.

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RE: December. - 2/6/2020 10:22:58 AM   
Cohen_slith

 

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That's because of the CVs having no cost for planes. When I bombed that base with the AntiSom Heavy Bomber, it took a beating.

Carriers are indeed extremely hard to catch by surface fleets - I do agree with that. BUT as it is now my fleets are simply not catching yours.

I pointed out long ago how fleets zap across the seas - and it does not help that it's 1 move to follow up and 1 move to 'hope to catch them'. Whilst raiders use 1 move, and have guarantee to catch convoy.

I am not complaining about Gibraltar or else that is land related. That Greece is invaded is perfectly fine for me, and so that Yugoslavia gets into Axis. Spain may backfire later on as it dilutes the beaches Axis has to defend - and it was my fault to have left Azores (Should have declared war on Portugal and invaded Azores, but seeing that air do not find either submarines, probably I was overstimating their use).

Canada invasion may be next issue. USA has not batted eyelid on the invasion of Newfoundland.




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RE: December. - 2/6/2020 10:48:32 AM   
tyronec


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Well at least the Naval interdiction is working, you sank a couple of Italian landing ships this turn. Think you have probably killed my prospects of a serious Canada take over but that I could sail 3 corps across the Atlantic without being spotted it not right.

Naval warfare has always been a problem for land wargames and Warplan does it better than most, not convinced it does it well enough yet for a WIP game.

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Post #: 39
April - 2/6/2020 12:53:46 PM   
tyronec


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A CLEAR turn and Barbarossa begins.
Not much combat as the Soviets are back from the border, Italians take a couple of empty ports on the Black sea.
Germans are not up to full strength, still a few Panzers in the build queue; but with mixed weather in April & May can just get the border rail captured.
Soviets are all Mech. and Cav. so far.

Madness in the Atlantic. The convoy to the Pacific has been closed for some time, it is impossible for the UK to protect it with a couple of battle fleets in Gibraltar. Italians have invaded Canada, taking one port. British had enough fleets to stop them taking another and I lost a couple of infantry corps to interdiction.
Merchant Marine is down to 63 but I cannot really use a Canadian port for refueling as the carriers are going to bomb them to bits.
IMO this area of the game with Axis invading across the Atlantic without naval control doesn't work.






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End April - 2/6/2020 7:01:50 PM   
tyronec


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Mud so not much happening.
Just take Riga.




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RE: End April - 2/6/2020 7:28:01 PM   
Flaviusx


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I think you pretty much need to defend most of the actual border until at least May to discourage these mud offensives.

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RE: End April - 2/6/2020 7:37:36 PM   
Cohen_slith

 

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More troops get encircled that way - already suffered two pockets of troops as after rain the weather turned clear.
I definitely understimated the punching power Germans can have on a 1 on 1 hex with a riverline. But I desume that also can be imputed to airpower.

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May - 2/6/2020 7:56:36 PM   
tyronec


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CLEAR turn so make good progress.
Two pockets of two Mech. each and Shatter a few units.

quote:

I definitely understimated the punching power Germans can have on a 1 on 1 hex with a riverline. But I desume that also can be imputed to airpower.

Get two or three Axis units making several attacks, backed up by air power, and there is no problem getting across a river. Then the way the game system works can usually follow up a hex or two.

Am not sure what I make of a Soviet army of low quality Mech units and lots of Cavalry, it is really not that difficult to break through and by the time the infantry armies arrive am thinking there will not be enough of them to construct a really solid line. The Soviets are tough to play.






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RE: End April - 2/6/2020 7:58:23 PM   
Flaviusx


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It's a choice of evils here, and better to lose some cheap and expendable units to slow the Axis down than to be up against the Dnpepr in June.

With mud intermixed here and reserves arriving, the Soviet can reconstitute the line without giving up too much ground too quickly.

I don't know what your build order is, but my own relies on lots of cavalry spam. 40 or more corps, no joke. It's enough to cover the frontier (or most of it) and still have a second line.

That said, I don't know if there is any good answer for a lack of allied lend lease. The UK is going to be very hard pressed to help the Sovs.

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RE: End April - 2/6/2020 8:51:49 PM   
Cohen_slith

 

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My build is a mix of armor / mech and cavs.

Not sure if it works though - tried this time to add some fighters but they do not seem to do the trick. Idea was to mass them, so that at some point they were to hit unescorted bombers. It has not truly worked out though and a good portion of fighters got overran already!

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Post #: 46
RE: End April - 2/7/2020 12:02:04 AM   
battlevonwar


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Having faced a ton of Barbarossas, not on the receiving end till now:

I found that Armor/Mechs worked pretty good for the short duration. The issue here that they die and the Russians cannot replace them so if it's a strong Barbie the Soviets have to give up a lot of real-estate. RifleCorps? They can be 1 shot like a Neutral infantry division...Not sure that's wise as though you gain experience you lose a lot in the trade and the Axis gain free Experience too. Cavalry fight better but cost more and boy you will need a lot of Cavalry to do the job of a cheap unit. You want 9-8-5 Generals across the board for Germany in 2 months after they kill 35 RifleCorps? (have busted thru' the riflecorp defense line in weeks leaving nothing left alive with literally truck boost less casualties than Poland)

I find that if the Allies can take out 300 land casualties in France, 150 Air that Barbarossa will be helped. If the Allies can also pressure Greece and France by November the Soviets maybe have a chance?

That and unfortunate bad weather? Key is trading land for time without losing 'everything', bad weather and by Winter of '41-'42 having a strong Western Offensive to draw off a few Panzer Corps. Maybe this is the only hope the Allies have of surviving till Summer of '42...

< Message edited by battlevonwar -- 2/7/2020 12:09:00 AM >

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RE: End April - 2/7/2020 2:47:39 AM   
Flaviusx


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The easiest way to buff the Sovs imo would be to raise the experience levels of the pre Finnish War Red Army to 30% across the board. I think starting so many of these units at 20% experience is an exaggeration. They were bad, but not so bad as that. It would also discourage disbanding trickery, at least for me. I'd probably keep all those rifle corps at 30%.





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RE: End April - 2/7/2020 3:22:09 AM   
Cohen_slith

 

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I think the 'issue' is their cost - on the experience I am not entirely sold, but neither against it. A gradual approach to 25 experience could be better and see how it goes.
BUT they cost 180 at 39 tech.
I feel they should cost 120 instead. Less worthy to disband them - but also easier to upgrade, replace in terms of losses, etc.

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Post #: 49
RE: End April - 2/7/2020 3:30:28 AM   
battlevonwar


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If the Axis arrive at Barbarossa strong as they are here it's not a true judge of Axis Strength vs Soviet Strength.

Cohen you've pushed back my weak Axis from the Soviet Hinter Land. Any alteration that would balance two even opponents a bit more would be nice. Though the current Meta can allow the Soviets to hold their Rivelines way longer than they could historically. tyronec is way stronger than he should be so this is a poor judge.

I imagine the advantage the Axis have is highly dependent on weather and what the Allies are up to and the future rules that govern their amphibious abilities in '41.

As it stands here Moscow will fall in October or earlier...maybe had the Axis lost 400 strength points(all over) that might be November? I would like to see a more realistic junk unit aside cavalry though.

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RE: End April - 2/7/2020 3:44:13 AM   
Flaviusx


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The cost point is a good one and in fact a lot of reason I switch over to cav corps because they are more effective. Not quite a 1-1 swap, but close enough. The rifle corps are very pricey for what they do and not worth building even at 35% experience.


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End May. - 2/7/2020 7:23:19 AM   
tyronec


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Mud in the South so just get the pocket in the North cleared.

Sub war is petering out, am taking some losses from escorts now and think the Allies are beginning to gain the upper hand. MM down to 50 and think I should be able to keep the Pacific convoy route closed for the time being but the Atlantic one is getting costly to attack.




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June - 2/7/2020 1:35:25 PM   
tyronec


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Summer at last.
Pushing hard North, Center and South.




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End June - 2/7/2020 3:38:43 PM   
tyronec


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My lead Panzer in the center got killed, careless by me forgetting to put it on hold.
Otherwise make good progress in the South and working around Leningrad.





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July - 2/7/2020 9:15:07 PM   
tyronec


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Cohen pulled off a good move in the center and cut off 11 of my my lead with a couple of Cav. corps - hadn't thought of this tactic in Warplan but it is a good move. Stalls my advance for two moves for the cost of two cav at most, a good exchange.

In the South do some damage and shatter a few units and a leader.




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End July - 2/7/2020 9:18:34 PM   
tyronec


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The center is stabalised.

Good progress continues down South.

Ready to assault Leningrad.

Subs have sortied again and getting around 10 MM a turn, so worth the losses.




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RE: End July - 2/7/2020 11:29:14 PM   
battlevonwar


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Looks like Axis are aiming for the Caucasus.

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Post #: 57
August - 2/8/2020 6:23:12 AM   
tyronec


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quote:

Looks like Axis are aiming for the Caucasus

If Axis get the Soviet oil the game is definitely over.

Quiet move in Russia, both sides are getting ready for the battle for Moscow.
Allies land in Netherlands.




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RE: August - 2/8/2020 7:13:55 AM   
battlevonwar


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I don't see enough Russian units to cover the entire front. Something has to give! Soon...

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RE: December. - 2/8/2020 3:32:05 PM   
AlvaroSousa


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You 100% have to send the BEF to France. It makes a huge impact on the game.

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