Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

RE: OT - The New Coronavirus

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [General] >> General Discussion >> RE: OT - The New Coronavirus Page: <<   < prev  2 3 [4] 5 6   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 2/27/2020 8:48:38 AM   
Pvt_Grunt

 

Posts: 297
Joined: 2/13/2007
From: Frankston Victoria
Status: offline
The beginning of the end

I've seen enough movies to know that these 2 stories are linked! A new virus and primates escaping from a hospital! I'm stocking up on canned goods and ammo......

_____________________________


(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 91
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 2/27/2020 10:31:07 PM   
Lobster


Posts: 3909
Joined: 8/8/2013
From: Third rock from the Sun.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

I'm not so willing to give carte blanche, Zorch. Some of the responses have been, well, terrifying and seem to go well beyond the bounds of reasoned interventional strategies.



Unfortunately, as we have seen, it isn't simply the medical issue that is the main point here. The containment strategies that have so far been implemented seem to work. But that means businesses shutting down. In Europe the social safety net is much better suited for that. Here, not so much. I'm also curious as to what terrifying responses you have seen.

BTW, if you are fortunate enough to be of the richer class wait a few days before buying up stocks.

< Message edited by Lobster -- 2/27/2020 10:33:06 PM >


_____________________________

http://www.operationbarbarossa.net/

"There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

(in reply to Zorch)
Post #: 92
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 2/28/2020 12:08:26 AM   
RFalvo69


Posts: 712
Joined: 7/11/2013
From: Lamezia Terme (Italy)
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Blond_Knight

Matrix has an office in Milan?


Their PR office is in Milan, IIRC. This is why a lot of Matrix's PRs are Italian.

My eldest daughter lives in Milan (she studies fashion design, but right now the institute is obviously closed). She tells me that there is a lot of confusion running around. Two days ago all bars and pubs had to close at 6PM - but restaurants had no restrictions. Why?

Then yesterday the measure was changed: bars and pubs can stay open, but after 6PM the costumers must stay seated and be served by the staff - no one is allowed to stay at the bar counter. Just think about it and you will see how this "measure" is totally nonsensical.

Then there is our local panic here in Calabria. I do own a Restaurant/Pizzeria, so I literally need to be hourly informed about events and regulations. But then a colleague asked me if I check the ID cards of my guests to see if they are from Northern Italy. I mean, my reaction was However, all the bar/restaurant services in my area are seeing a 30%-50% drop in costumers - and we are quite far from Lombardy.

My (obviously limited) perception is that, true, we got a serious bug running around, but the reaction is out of proportions. Wash your hands, isolate yourself if you are sick and warn the authorities (along with those you got in contact) if you think it is warranted (no, covering your mouth with a mask if you are healthy doesn't work). This is not the Black Pox: a vast percentage of those killed by this virus are either elderly people, people with serious pre-existing conditions or both.

If anything, this could become a good dress rehearsal for when the Black Pox will strike for real, but they are already talking about the risk of a global recession caused by this Coronavirus drama. I don't think that, if something so dire happens, it would be justified by the reality of facts.

_____________________________

"Yes darling, I served in the Navy for eight years. I was a cook..."
"Oh dad... so you were a God-damned cook?"

(My 10 years old daughter after watching "The Hunt for Red October")

(in reply to Blond_Knight)
Post #: 93
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 2/28/2020 11:26:25 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 25090
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster

BTW, if you are fortunate enough to be of the richer class wait a few days before buying up stocks.


Thanks for the advice, but no thanks. I'll not let a good market panic go to waste. I picked up a lot of good stuff in the bargain bins yesterday and today. As Warren Buffett says, "The time to be greedy is when others are fearful." And Ken Fischer routinely argues that "False bearish fears are always bullish."

_____________________________


(in reply to Lobster)
Post #: 94
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 2/28/2020 11:29:38 PM   
Zorch

 

Posts: 7498
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster

BTW, if you are fortunate enough to be of the richer class wait a few days before buying up stocks.


Thanks for the advice, but no thanks. I'll not let a good market panic go to waste. I picked up a lot of good stuff in the bargain bins yesterday and today. As Warren Buffett says, "The time to be greedy is when others are fearful." And Ken Fischer routinely argues that "False bearish fears are always bullish."

What goes down (because of virus fear) will come up. But don't ask me when...

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 95
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 2/28/2020 11:34:37 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 25090
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster
The containment strategies that have so far been implemented seem to work.


Meh. If they did, then how to explain the global spread out post- Wuhan 'wet market'? At best, the authoritarian crackdown by the Chinese delayed some exposure. But some 15MM Chinese got out of the Wuhan crackdown beforehand-presumably a goodly number of them were exposed. But the global spread is / was largely inevitable.

On the other hand, what we did with known exposed Americans repatriated from China was an excellent application of selective quarantine.

The terrifying Chinese behaviors include assigning political 'block captains' and neighborhood communist busybodies to enforce an ironclad neighborhood crackdown. This is happening all over China. This prevents sick from visiting the hospital, needy from getting medication refills, people going to work or school and everything in between. Entirely without merit from the disease prevention and control foundation. The thought of a communist goon squad barricading me in my home and letting me starve or go without my daily medication is terrifying to me.

_____________________________


(in reply to Lobster)
Post #: 96
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 2/28/2020 11:35:06 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 25090
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch
But don't ask me when...


When?

_____________________________


(in reply to Zorch)
Post #: 97
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 2/28/2020 11:45:14 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 5710
Joined: 11/16/2015
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster
The containment strategies that have so far been implemented seem to work.


Meh. If they did, then how to explain the global spread out post- Wuhan 'wet market'? At best, the authoritarian crackdown by the Chinese delayed some exposure. But some 15MM Chinese got out of the Wuhan crackdown beforehand-presumably a goodly number of them were exposed. But the global spread is / was largely inevitable.

On the other hand, what we did with known exposed Americans repatriated from China was an excellent application of selective quarantine.

The terrifying Chinese behaviors include assigning political 'block captains' and neighborhood communist busybodies to enforce an ironclad neighborhood crackdown. This is happening all over China. This prevents sick from visiting the hospital, needy from getting medication refills, people going to work or school and everything in between. Entirely without merit from the disease prevention and control foundation. The thought of a communist goon squad barricading me in my home and letting me starve or go without my daily medication is terrifying to me.


No going out to get essential medication like beer?

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 98
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 2/29/2020 12:00:49 AM   
Zorch

 

Posts: 7498
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch
But don't ask me when...


When?

Are you asking When you can ask me When the markets will come back up? If so, yes.

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 99
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 2/29/2020 12:28:06 AM   
Zorch

 

Posts: 7498
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
More pertinent information from Science News https://www.sciencenews.org/article/what-new-phase-coronavirus-outbreak-united-states-means-you

(in reply to Zorch)
Post #: 100
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 2/29/2020 12:34:46 AM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 25090
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch
But don't ask me when...


When?

Are you asking When you can ask me When the markets will come back up? If so, yes.


OK. When can I ask you when the markets will come back up?

_____________________________


(in reply to Zorch)
Post #: 101
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 2/29/2020 12:37:10 AM   
Zorch

 

Posts: 7498
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch
But don't ask me when...


When?

Are you asking When you can ask me When the markets will come back up? If so, yes.


OK. When can I ask you when the markets will come back up?

About 2 weeks after they do.

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 102
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 2/29/2020 12:47:55 AM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 25090
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch
About 2 weeks after they do.


After they do what?

_____________________________


(in reply to Zorch)
Post #: 103
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 2/29/2020 12:49:53 AM   
Zorch

 

Posts: 7498
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch
About 2 weeks after they do.


After they do what?

After they come back up.

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 104
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 2/29/2020 2:56:58 AM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 25090
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch

After they come back up.


OK. Then what?

_____________________________


(in reply to Zorch)
Post #: 105
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 2/29/2020 3:31:17 AM   
Zap


Posts: 3645
Joined: 12/6/2004
From: LAS VEGAS TAKE A CHANCE
Status: offline
The usual suspects leading us down a path of no end.

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 106
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 2/29/2020 4:41:23 AM   
Lobster


Posts: 3909
Joined: 8/8/2013
From: Third rock from the Sun.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zap

The usual suspects leading us down a path of no end.


Every path has an end and we all live to see it.

_____________________________

http://www.operationbarbarossa.net/

"There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

(in reply to Zap)
Post #: 107
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 2/29/2020 5:37:33 AM   
Zorch

 

Posts: 7498
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch

After they come back up.


OK. Then what?

Then you sell at a fat profit $$$, if you so choose.

You have used 4 questions. You have 16 remaining. Do you want to buy a vowel?

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 108
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 2/29/2020 10:38:10 AM   
RFalvo69


Posts: 712
Joined: 7/11/2013
From: Lamezia Terme (Italy)
Status: online
The story today, beside the roof coming down on the markets, is that you could have already had the Coronavirus without knowing. It manifests itself as a strong flu. I had a strong flu right when the panic was starting in China, back at the end of January.

Then again, there are two kinds of flu still around beside the Coronavirus: the usual one with fever, cough and a cold, and a gastro-intestinal one. If you get the latter you at least know that it is not THE PLAGUE. If you get the former (the one I had)... well, now you must be checked. This adds to the workload of the scientists.

Also, let's not forget how people still get sick from other aliments, babies are being born and so on. But yesterday there was a story on ANSA (the Italian news service) about how hospitals are filled up by Coronavirus cases - either real or suspected - and non-containment areas are being transformed in containment ones. Where this leaves people with other aliments, I don't know.

_____________________________

"Yes darling, I served in the Navy for eight years. I was a cook..."
"Oh dad... so you were a God-damned cook?"

(My 10 years old daughter after watching "The Hunt for Red October")

(in reply to Zorch)
Post #: 109
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 2/29/2020 1:11:58 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 34398
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline
I help care for my late 70s/early 80s parents and I'm very concerned because not only does this virus have Spanish Flu-level mortality on average, but it's 15-20% mortality for folks like them with elderly immune systems and other health issues. My biggest concern is that folks are treating this like it's just another flu or a bad cold and thus will not try to contain it or stop it, but just blow it off. If this spreads widely, it will be like the Spanish Flu and kill millions of people across all ages, though mostly older folks. This is potentially IMHO a once a century pandemic, if we take it too lightly. I see it as frankly requiring a wartime-level effort and seriousness to avoid wartime-level casualties.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/28/bill-gates-says-coronavirus-may-be-once-in-a-century-pathogen.html

< Message edited by Erik Rutins -- 2/29/2020 1:12:35 PM >


_____________________________


Erik Rutins
Director of Product Development




For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to RFalvo69)
Post #: 110
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 2/29/2020 1:13:12 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 34398
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline
Also, this is worth keeping in mind:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normalcy_bias

_____________________________


Erik Rutins
Director of Product Development




For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 111
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 2/29/2020 5:08:23 PM   
Lobster


Posts: 3909
Joined: 8/8/2013
From: Third rock from the Sun.
Status: offline
It worrisome that three new cases have presented themselves on the West Coast. One in California, one in Oregon and one in the state of Washington and none of these people have been in contact with anyone who might spread the virus so it is out there in the general population. WTF? It's like someone is moving it up the coast in just one day.

Me and my wife are in the age range where we need to be highly aware. But we are someplace where we have suffered over a week of no power and no way to move around a few times so we are always prepared for a month of confinement. At this point not sure if that is enough. Whether or not a specific area will be hit hard is not predictable. I'm not going to sit with my thumb up my butt hoping it will all go away and not affect us. We will use whatever we have anyway so no harm in stocking up a little more that we will use anyway.

_____________________________

http://www.operationbarbarossa.net/

"There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 112
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 2/29/2020 8:25:21 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 34398
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline
The reason these are just now appearing all at once is because we just now were able to do broader testing. Let's hope these outbreaks turn out to be of a manageable size.

_____________________________


Erik Rutins
Director of Product Development




For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to Lobster)
Post #: 113
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 2/29/2020 9:40:50 PM   
RFalvo69


Posts: 712
Joined: 7/11/2013
From: Lamezia Terme (Italy)
Status: online
What I think is that the World leaders underestimated the seriousness of the problem, and now they are behind in the "decision cycle" (as dictated by the evolving events).

I know that this borders politics but I'm not pointing fingers or making names. I'm simply more and more convinced that this virus is always one step ahead the measures taken to fight/contain it. Like in any struggle, when you only react you end up losing.

I'm still convinced that to fight the Coronavirus the most powerful weapons are good info and common sense. True, it is scary, but the basics are actually simple: wash (and disinfect) your hands, don't touch your or others' face before doing that, monitor your temperature and warn the officials in your country if you do suspect you have gotten it (try not to panic - your temperature can go up simply because you are tired; again, use your head).

And protect/isolate the people that can be hit the hardest: the elderly and those with a compromised immune system.

True, almost one-hundred thousand people around the World got this bug. For some reason, the follow up is never mentioned: almost all of them are not dying. The highest projection is a 2% mortality - and most of it in the above mentioned vulnerable part of the population. I lost hope to read/hear the words "...however 98% of the afflicted will recover".

I don't want to minimise the situation. It is scary, but the confusing and sometimes contradictory declarations coming right now by public officials don't fight the scare, only enhance it.

My parents live in a good hospice, which is under severe lockdown. I can agree with that: having a sick person in a place with 90+ people over 80 would be like throwing a light match in a pool of gasoline. Then I speak again with my daughter in Milan and she describes me a ghost city. Gathering places are closed, the streets are empty of people, disinfectant gel (usually 1 Euro over the counter) is sold by shady people in shady corners at 10-20 Euro; she told me that she was not making it up and I believe her. She had to take a cab, and the usually busy streets are so empty that she paid half the usual fare.

But now hear this: she is in Lombardy, in the middle of one of the hottest zones on Earth (we are told) - and she can't name a single person hit by the Coronavirus. Not one of her fellow students, not one of her friends, not her grocer, not the cab driver, not the brother-in-law of a friend's dentist. No one. She told me "Should I decide to try how this bug is, I wouldn't know how to do it." (she was always the creative one).

Now the economy is collapsing, worse than after 9/11 and the 2008 meltdown. This scares me more than the bug, because (if I understood correctly how this little bastard acts) we are yet to see the worst of it in terms of diffusion; which is, unfortunately, the only thing that does seem to matter.

_____________________________

"Yes darling, I served in the Navy for eight years. I was a cook..."
"Oh dad... so you were a God-damned cook?"

(My 10 years old daughter after watching "The Hunt for Red October")

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 114
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 2/29/2020 10:23:39 PM   
Zap


Posts: 3645
Joined: 12/6/2004
From: LAS VEGAS TAKE A CHANCE
Status: offline
Maybe some time in the near future when all the politics and fears are dealt with because we have handled this virus. There can actually be a clear definition as to what the virus is capable of doing, more concrete facts to belay fears. In the meantime the uncertainty about it fans speculation (true or false) and is capable of destroying an economy. I sure hope it does not come to that.
But seeing the panic the Corona virus has produced it maybe we are headed for a dark economic turn.

(in reply to RFalvo69)
Post #: 115
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 2/29/2020 11:20:02 PM   
nicwb

 

Posts: 509
Joined: 4/26/2010
Status: offline
quote:

But seeing the panic the Corona virus has produced it maybe we are headed for a dark economic turn.


That's probably right - on it's own COVID-19 won't destroy the economy. But it could give it a fairly hard knock. It may simply depend on what underlying problems the economy currently has and how well/badly people adapt. For instance the Black Death in the 14th century literally decimated the European agricultural economy. But it did not completely destroy it. The problem - not enough workers left to farm the feudal estates. The solution -wages rose markedly due to the shortage of labor. Landlords and feudal estates probably had to swallow the losses or at least renegotiate with their tenants until the population became greater.

(in reply to Zap)
Post #: 116
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 3/1/2020 12:16:32 AM   
Zorch

 

Posts: 7498
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: nicwb

quote:

But seeing the panic the Corona virus has produced it maybe we are headed for a dark economic turn.


That's probably right - on it's own COVID-19 won't destroy the economy. But it could give it a fairly hard knock. It may simply depend on what underlying problems the economy currently has and how well/badly people adapt. For instance the Black Death in the 14th century literally decimated the European agricultural economy. But it did not completely destroy it. The problem - not enough workers left to farm the feudal estates. The solution -wages rose markedly due to the shortage of labor. Landlords and feudal estates probably had to swallow the losses or at least renegotiate with their tenants until the population became greater.

There's no comparison with the Black Death. That killed 25 or 30% of the population in Europe over several years (1346-1350). No one (and I mean absolutely no one) is suggesting COVID-19 will have anything more than 2% mortality. The economic impact will be short-lived; IMHO a year from now we'll be where we were before COVID-19. A better comparison (for economic effect) might be severe flu outbreaks, such as the 1957 and 1968 flu.

< Message edited by Zorch -- 3/1/2020 12:20:34 AM >

(in reply to nicwb)
Post #: 117
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 3/1/2020 1:00:08 AM   
Mobius


Posts: 10338
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster
It worrisome that three new cases have presented themselves on the West Coast. One in California, one in Oregon and one in the state of Washington and none of these people have been in contact with anyone who might spread the virus so it is out there in the general population. WTF? It's like someone is moving it up the coast in just one day.
Well the one in Solano is a couple miles from Travis AFB were a bunch of patients were housed. So somehow something got out. The other cases I don't know. Is there a coronavirus Mary out there?

Anyways, laying in a supply of canned food may not be a bad idea. You will have to make fewer trips to a place where people gather together.


_____________________________

All your Tanks are Belong to us!
panzer

(in reply to Lobster)
Post #: 118
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 3/1/2020 1:01:36 AM   
Zap


Posts: 3645
Joined: 12/6/2004
From: LAS VEGAS TAKE A CHANCE
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch

quote:

ORIGINAL: nicwb

quote:

But seeing the panic the Corona virus has produced it maybe we are headed for a dark economic turn.


That's probably right - on it's own COVID-19 won't destroy the economy. But it could give it a fairly hard knock. It may simply depend on what underlying problems the economy currently has and how well/badly people adapt. For instance the Black Death in the 14th century literally decimated the European agricultural economy. But it did not completely destroy it. The problem - not enough workers left to farm the feudal estates. The solution -wages rose markedly due to the shortage of labor. Landlords and feudal estates probably had to swallow the losses or at least renegotiate with their tenants until the population became greater.

There's no comparison with the Black Death. That killed 25 or 30% of the population in Europe over several years (1346-1350). No one (and I mean absolutely no one) is suggesting COVID-19 will have anything more than 2% mortality. The economic impact will be short-lived; IMHO a year from now we'll be where we were before COVID-19. A better comparison (for economic effect) might be severe flu outbreaks, such as the 1957 and 1968 flu.



Exactly thats how I look at it. Could the media for once stop fanning unwarranted fear? I doubt it. But they could try.

(in reply to Zorch)
Post #: 119
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 3/1/2020 1:13:50 AM   
operating


Posts: 3000
Joined: 1/19/2013
Status: online
At my Yahoo homepage 9 out of the first 31 articles was about this coronavirus. The substance of the articles varied, a very few were objective in offering solutions, or science based in nature. What concerned me was the doom and gloom blame game and making a hullabaloo out of some rather mundane stuff, in other words mostly opinionated or opinion from many that are not scientists. Until this virus scare is reasoned out and fully understood through observation, action and reaction (experimenting) I'm of the mind to be cautious and wait for some good news to start turning things around..

(in reply to Zorch)
Post #: 120
Page:   <<   < prev  2 3 [4] 5 6   next >   >>
All Forums >> [General] >> General Discussion >> RE: OT - The New Coronavirus Page: <<   < prev  2 3 [4] 5 6   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.172