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RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 3/13/2020 3:44:33 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: z1812

The corona virus has been isolated.

https://globalnews.ca/news/6670445/canada-research-coronavirus-isolated/


I am intrigued by this:

'In a few weeks, we will have coronavirus vaccine' + '90 days' + 'potentially more'

Didn't they say 12-18 months?

https://www.jpost.com/HEALTH-SCIENCE/Israeli-scientists-In-three-weeks-we-will-have-coronavirus-vaccine-619101

PS: and the article was posted the 27 february (when I found it), look at the comments

< Message edited by TulliusDetritus -- 3/13/2020 3:47:35 PM >


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Post #: 331
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 3/13/2020 3:44:41 PM   
Red2112

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: z1812


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

The Chinese Communists have the fundamental blame for all of this, but I agree that I have not been impressed, though also not surprised, at the slow speed of bureaucracy in most of the free world.


The Chinese have not been Communist for quite a while. They still have the " Communist Party " as an element of their government but it is really only in name communist. They are business people and are very Capitalistic. So much so that many American and European companies have large operations there. Think Mercedes, Boeing, Nike and Starbucks to name but a few.

The disease started within one of the live animal markets which are as ingrained in Chinese Culture as Prostitution, Drug Abuse, and other problematic behaviours are ingrained in all cultures. Ingrained traditional cultural deviance is extremely difficult to control and impossible to eradicate. The Chinese have tried.

In regards to China's initial response, did they really do anything different than any other country? In every country measures were brought out, drip by drip, drop by drop.

I presume most health officials are happy to have the benefit of China's experience.


While not happy, this is true. Even more, it´s not totally sure if the sprout did come from the market, there is a biologic diseases study center right next to the mentioned market, and there is some speculation for if the virus did get loose from that center due to some security breach, or human negligence. If so, there are people from all over the world working in this center, so it´s it Chinas fault?

I don´t think a rising economy and power as China is would want a disaster like the COVID-19 to get loose, aside from all the other colatiral damage that could come with it.

China has already sent personnel and help to Italy. They actually have more experience then any one else right now, so don´t be surprised if they are the first to come up with a cure. Nobody, at least for now knows were the origin came from.

Thanks to Russia we also won the second world war, but people tend to forget those things. No matter what, they are people too, lets not forget that. Politics aside...

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Post #: 332
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 3/13/2020 3:45:36 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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I think the waking up will be gradual. Unfortunately for some folks, it needs to hit very close to home before they believe it's a problem. The same was seen during the Spanish Flu pandemic. Staying away from sick people and large gatherings, taking regular walks in the fresh air, moderate exercise to keep the immune system happy and playing some wargames is a good prescription. :-)

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Post #: 333
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 3/13/2020 4:04:39 PM   
RangerJoe


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Don't forget to pet the cat or dog (if you have one) as that will also help your health.

Gals can also play wargames.

When you do go out, get all of you errands done in one trip, then maybe a quick shower and a change of clothes to eliminate any bugs brought home.

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Post #: 334
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 3/13/2020 4:34:58 PM   
Gray Fox

 

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https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2020-03-12/why-does-it-take-so-long-to-make-a-coronavirus-vaccine

We had a vaccine for swine flu that killed more people than that flu. An untested vaccine is a big risk. Millions will need to be vaccinated.

Also to the Canadian team that decoded COVID-19, that's really great! However, we decoded HIV's genetic sequence...in 2009.

(in reply to TulliusDetritus)
Post #: 335
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 3/13/2020 6:15:58 PM   
USSAmerica


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Red2112

Maybe we need a new thread, as in "What will you do in case of a lockdown"

So tell us with what are you going to spend your free time with...

Just trying to be positive here folks.

Red


I'm fortunate enough to be able to work from home and my entire company will be doing so as of Monday. My wife and I will be doing some significant reading, gaming, and movie watching. We likely won't be on "lockdown" unless one of us gets sick, and we're prepared with 2 weeks of food and medicines. Looking at 11pm trips to the grocery when we need to replenish and some walks, running, or bike rides as the weather is getting nice here, but not much else.

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Post #: 336
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 3/13/2020 6:19:30 PM   
z1812


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

quote:

ORIGINAL: z1812
The Chinese have not been Communist for quite a while. They still have the " Communist Party " as an element of their government but it is really only in name communist. They are business people and are very Capitalistic. So much so that many American and European companies have large operations there. Think Mercedes, Boeing, Nike and Starbucks to name but a few.


The party leaders are not capitalistic business people, but rather authoritarian thugs intent on enriching themselves and gaining power. There's a big difference. The still teach and preach communist orthodoxy, though I agree that they have allowed many divergences from it in the interest of wealth and power and I'm not sure most of the leaders still believe it, but it still serves as a powerful ideological tool for them and certainly many are still believers.

quote:

In regards to China's initial response, did they really do anything different than any other country? In every country measures were brought out, drip by drip, drop by drop.


Yes, there was one very key difference. They spent weeks covering it up. I agree that other governments have not covered themselves in glory, but at least in a free society we would have had a chance to nip it in the bud. China's response after it had to reveal the truth to the world was extreme and effective, but much time was already lost and at the same time China was using its leverage to tell other countries to _not_ ban travel to/from China even while their outbreak was still growing. Had we had no cover-up, an effective response and an acceptance of travel bans until under control in China, we might be in a better place today.

Regards,

- Erik


Hi Eric,

My response to some of your points.

"The party leaders are not capitalistic business people, but rather authoritarian thugs intent on enriching themselves and gaining power. There's a big difference."

How does that differ from the ruling class in most other countries? Are you saying they are not interested in enriching themselves and gaining power? Authoritarian Thugs..............well there is certainly enough of them around.......and not just in China.

Had we had no cover-up, an effective response and an acceptance of travel bans until under control in China, we might be in a better place today.

Do you have a reliable evidentiary source that proves the Chinese covered it up? You said they covered it up for weeks. That is the same amount of time it has taken most western countries to take this seriously and put proper precautions in place. Were they covering up as well?

Hopefully countries will spend some time after this is dealt with to properly plan for the inevitable next one.

We do agree however that some wargaming is one the most entertaining things we can do to pass some time while this is virus is sorted out. FPRS and JTCS here.

Regards,

John

< Message edited by z1812 -- 3/13/2020 6:25:23 PM >

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 337
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 3/13/2020 6:28:52 PM   
RangerJoe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: z1812

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

quote:

ORIGINAL: z1812
The Chinese have not been Communist for quite a while. They still have the " Communist Party " as an element of their government but it is really only in name communist. They are business people and are very Capitalistic. So much so that many American and European companies have large operations there. Think Mercedes, Boeing, Nike and Starbucks to name but a few.


The party leaders are not capitalistic business people, but rather authoritarian thugs intent on enriching themselves and gaining power. There's a big difference. The still teach and preach communist orthodoxy, though I agree that they have allowed many divergences from it in the interest of wealth and power and I'm not sure most of the leaders still believe it, but it still serves as a powerful ideological tool for them and certainly many are still believers.

quote:

In regards to China's initial response, did they really do anything different than any other country? In every country measures were brought out, drip by drip, drop by drop.


Yes, there was one very key difference. They spent weeks covering it up. I agree that other governments have not covered themselves in glory, but at least in a free society we would have had a chance to nip it in the bud. China's response after it had to reveal the truth to the world was extreme and effective, but much time was already lost and at the same time China was using its leverage to tell other countries to _not_ ban travel to/from China even while their outbreak was still growing. Had we had no cover-up, an effective response and an acceptance of travel bans until under control in China, we might be in a better place today.

Regards,

- Erik


Hi Eric,

My response to some of your points.

"The party leaders are not capitalistic business people, but rather authoritarian thugs intent on enriching themselves and gaining power. There's a big difference."

How does that differ from the ruling class in most other countries? Are you saying they are not interested in enriching themselves and gaining power? Authoritarian Thugs..............well there is certainly enough of them around.......and not just in China.

Had we had no cover-up, an effective response and an acceptance of travel bans until under control in China, we might be in a better place today.

Do you have a reliable evidentiary source that proves the Chinese covered it up? You said they covered it up for weeks. That is the same amount of time it has taken most western countries to take this seriously and put proper precautions in place. Were they covering up as well?

Hopefully countries will spend some time after this is dealt with to properly plan for the inevitable next one.

We do agree however that some wargaming is one the most entertaining things we can do to pass some time while this is virus is sorted out. FPRS and JTCS here.

Regards,

John


China could have done more to stop this and to keep their medical staff safe. If you want the link, let me know and I will send you the link in a pm.

< Message edited by RangerJoe -- 3/14/2020 6:16:13 AM >


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Post #: 338
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 3/13/2020 6:33:26 PM   
RangerJoe


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I read where some of the drugs that they were giving for the Corona virus were for rheumatiod arthritis since the over active immune system causes problems.

quote:

Chinese government has on Wednesday approved the use of Arthritis drug for Coronavirus treatment.

The Socialists state said inspite its prescription of Swiss drugmaker Roche’s <ROG.S> anti-inflammation drug Actemra for patients who develop severe complications from the coronavirus, it still hunts for new ways to combat the deadly virus.

Disclosing this, the Physiciansweekly.com opined that “China is hoping that some older drugs could stop severe cytokine release syndrome (CRS), or cytokine storms, an overreaction of the immune system which is considered a major factor behind catastrophic organ failure and death in some coronavirus patients.




https://www.vanguardngr.com/2020/03/breaking-china-endorses-arthritis-drug-for-coronavirus-treatment/

quote:

Since Actemra’s approval a decade ago, it has become a go-to drug against other inflammatory conditions, including cytokine storms in cancer patients receiving cell therapies from Novartis <NOVN.S> and Gilead Sciences <GILD.O>.

In 2012 it helped save the life of a young U.S. girl, the first child to be treated for leukaemia with Novatis’ Kymriah, from a post-treatment rush of IL-6.



https://www.physiciansweekly.com/china-approves-use-of/


quote:

An anti-inflammation drug, Actemra (tocilizumab), manufactured by the Swiss pharmaceutical company, Roche, has been approved by the Chinese government for the treatment of patients who are developing severe complications from coronavirus.

Actemra is indicated for the treatment of adult patients with moderately to severely active rheumatoid arthritis who have had an inadequate response to one or more Disease-Modifying Anti-Rheumatic Drugs.

Roche was quoted as saying that a third party has initiated the trial independently to explore the efficacy and safety of the drug in coronavirus patients with cytokine release syndrome (CRS).


https://punchng.com/china-approves-arthritis-drug-for-coronavirus-treatment/

I think that I read about that young girl. The only reason why the drug was used on her was because one of the doctors had a family member using the drug. She is now a healthy teenager.

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Post #: 339
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 3/13/2020 6:33:41 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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"China Bought the West Time. The West Squandered It."

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/13/opinion/china-response-china.html?fbclid=IwAR2t8bggi7DT4JY5g_smf3dvVy_4NXj6MDbXM_ySWUAMDLwRUakJAD0GqXE

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Post #: 340
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 3/13/2020 6:43:49 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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When I was in China back in 2009, I witnessed half a dozen times in half a dozen different places a weird show. Civilians (males, females, young or old) shouting, yelling at the cops. True street scandals. The cops errr invariably swallowed all the vitriol and abuse. I don't speak Chinese but it was crystal clear -the violent tone, faces and gestures- they were not greeting those poor cops

I mean, no trigger happy clowns are you following me? Far East authoritarians were weird...

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Post #: 341
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 3/13/2020 6:52:25 PM   
Lobster


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China's response was initially to cover it up for fear it really was SARS or fearing the money market panic a false alert would cause. Which is what they did with SARS, cover it up. But when they suddenly shut down an entire province, one responsible for a lot of their foreign business, you could get a whiff of exactly how bad it was going to get. This was right after they, the Chinese government, ensured WHO it was not being transmitted person to person even though Wuhan hospitals were beginning to fill with the sick. Business people had already left that province to other parts of the world so the horse was already out of the barn. I'm not making this up, it's history and anyone who was paying attention already knows this. They fairly threw a bomb in a house full of people and now are rushing in to 'save' the survivors trumpeting themselves as heroes.

In any event, it no longer matters who did or didn't do what. Maybe, after screwing it up twice, the Chinese government will stop trying to cover up diseases and instead will act quickly no matter how minor it seems money markets be damned.

I am fortunate enough to be able to sequester myself and my wife quite easily, being of the people group who are dying of this. As a plus we live in a state that had already dealt with Ebola patients and is one of the worlds best hospital facilities equipped to deal with this type of event. My concern is for the millions of people who are at risk of dying from this new virus. It is sneaky, hard to detect in it's early stages and even more virulent than the flu. I suppose we are lucky the mortality rate is less than 5%. This time.

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Post #: 342
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 3/13/2020 11:08:41 PM   
OldSarge


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

I think the waking up will be gradual. Unfortunately for some folks, it needs to hit very close to home before they believe it's a problem. The same was seen during the Spanish Flu pandemic. Staying away from sick people and large gatherings, taking regular walks in the fresh air, moderate exercise to keep the immune system happy and playing some wargames is a good prescription. :-)


I see the same thing here, a lot of people are still in the shock and disbelief stage with a long ways to go before they reach acceptance.

Like Lobster, I'm in the at risk age range. I've come to grips with mortality a long time ago. So that leaves plenty of room for some high quality gaming to take my mind off the things I can't do anything about.

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Post #: 343
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 3/14/2020 1:00:24 AM   
Zovs


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Does any one really know anyone personally that has this virus? Not just heard about it?

Everyone I know and they know is in the negative on knowing anyone personally that has the virus. I live in a city of 300,000 so you would think there would be an outbreak, but there isn’t any.

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Post #: 344
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 3/14/2020 2:01:14 AM   
ringoblood


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zovs

Does any one really know anyone personally that has this virus? Not just heard about it?

Everyone I know and they know is in the negative on knowing anyone personally that has the virus. I live in a city of 300,000 so you would think there would be an outbreak, but there isn’t any.


Yes as of this morning my mother has been test positive with it, she a nurse at a healthcare place in Philadelphia, Pa, USA

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Post #: 345
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 3/14/2020 2:45:34 AM   
OldSarge


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ringoblood


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zovs

Does any one really know anyone personally that has this virus? Not just heard about it?

Everyone I know and they know is in the negative on knowing anyone personally that has the virus. I live in a city of 300,000 so you would think there would be an outbreak, but there isn’t any.


Yes as of this morning my mother has been test positive with it, she a nurse at a healthcare place in Philadelphia, Pa, USA


Healthcare workers are at the greatest risk, and they knowingly put themselves into harms way for our sake. Unsung heroes each one of them! I hope that your mother makes a speedy recovery and wish all the best.

< Message edited by OldSarge -- 3/14/2020 2:46:07 AM >


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Post #: 346
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 3/14/2020 6:18:28 AM   
RangerJoe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OldSarge

quote:

ORIGINAL: ringoblood


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zovs

Does any one really know anyone personally that has this virus? Not just heard about it?

Everyone I know and they know is in the negative on knowing anyone personally that has the virus. I live in a city of 300,000 so you would think there would be an outbreak, but there isn’t any.


Yes as of this morning my mother has been test positive with it, she a nurse at a healthcare place in Philadelphia, Pa, USA


Healthcare workers are at the greatest risk, and they knowingly put themselves into harms way for our sake. Unsung heroes each one of them! I hope that your mother makes a speedy recovery and wish all the best.


Wish her the best from me as well.

I also suggest that you stay away from her if at all possible until she is better.

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Post #: 347
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 3/14/2020 9:32:36 AM   
bahringer

 

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a few tests show
- The lower the temperature, the higher the likelihood of causing illness.
- At 25 ° C, the lowest probability of causing disease at 75% humidity
- almost 0 at 34 ° C-37 ° C at 60% - 85% humidity

Hope the weather will warm up

apkafe !

< Message edited by bahringer -- 3/14/2020 9:33:50 AM >

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Post #: 348
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 3/14/2020 9:58:24 AM   
Lobster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gray Fox

We had a vaccine for swine flu that killed more people than that flu.



Not even close to the truth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1976_swine_flu_outbreak



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Post #: 349
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 3/14/2020 9:59:55 AM   
Lobster


Posts: 4210
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zovs

Does any one really know anyone personally that has this virus? Not just heard about it?

Everyone I know and they know is in the negative on knowing anyone personally that has the virus. I live in a city of 300,000 so you would think there would be an outbreak, but there isn’t any.


I don't personally know of any millionaires yet I hear about them all the time therefore they must not exist.

Reconsidering this it appears you are saying you are fortunate enough not to know anyone who has contracted this. That's a good thing. Hopefully your good fortune continues.

< Message edited by Lobster -- 3/14/2020 10:13:06 AM >


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Post #: 350
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 3/14/2020 10:05:00 AM   
Lobster


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A Chinese Foreign Minister spokesman says the U.S. planted the disease. In other words he says the U.S. has attacked China. Would he say that without the blessing of the Chinese government? Is this really a slippery slope they want to go down?

https://thediplomat.com/2020/03/chinese-foreign-ministry-spokesperson-implies-us-military-brought-coronavirus-to-wuhan/

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Post #: 351
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 3/14/2020 10:42:17 AM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster

A Chinese Foreign Minister spokesman says the U.S. planted the disease. In other words he says the U.S. has attacked China. Would he say that without the blessing of the Chinese government? Is this really a slippery slope they want to go down?

https://thediplomat.com/2020/03/chinese-foreign-ministry-spokesperson-implies-us-military-brought-coronavirus-to-wuhan/
warspite1

This virus gives the world a very real taster of what could happen to the Human Race. And what do some world leaders (and I'm not laying the blame solely on one side here) do? Hurl insults and accusations at each other. Great thanks for that. How very mature of them. That's the sort of leadership we like to see in times of crisis


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Post #: 352
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 3/14/2020 10:43:18 AM   
rico21

 

Posts: 2848
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+1
The man who saw the bear who saw the bat.
Still unproven hypotheses.
More human stupidity ...
Meanwhile, the coronavirus ...

< Message edited by rico21 -- 3/14/2020 10:44:06 AM >

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Post #: 353
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 3/14/2020 11:18:15 AM   
Zorch

 

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Coronavirus is most contagious before and during the first week of symptoms https://www.sciencenews.org/article/coronavirus-most-contagious-before-during-first-week-symptoms

'People stop making infectious virus once the body’s antibody response kicks in'

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Post #: 354
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 3/14/2020 11:31:32 AM   
Lobster


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A more in depth piece from Global Security:

https://www.globalsecurity.org/security/library/news/2020/03/sec-200313-voa04.htm?_m=3n%252e002a%252e2818%252efv0ao0e2iw%252e2lpb

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Post #: 355
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 3/14/2020 11:41:34 AM   
Lobster


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OMG...the looting has started. https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-australia-51867525/christmas-island-a-giant-robber-crab-stole-my-camera

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Post #: 356
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 3/14/2020 11:50:12 AM   
TulliusDetritus


Posts: 5443
Joined: 4/1/2004
From: The Zone™
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You can't deny the British are original. Their approach will be different. "Herd immunity". Good luck.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/13/herd-immunity-will-the-uks-coronavirus-strategy-work

< Message edited by TulliusDetritus -- 3/14/2020 11:54:26 AM >


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Post #: 357
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 3/14/2020 12:34:29 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 9626
Joined: 11/16/2015
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Herd immunity is why a lot of diseases are now rare, at least until people who don't get vaccinated then get exposed to a disease carrier who probably was not vaccinated either.

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Post #: 358
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 3/14/2020 2:07:50 PM   
z1812


Posts: 1651
Joined: 9/1/2004
From: Toronto Ontario
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An interesting article about Flu statistics and the problematic nature of predictive modeling.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/flu-deaths-reality-check-1.1127442

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Post #: 359
RE: OT - The New Coronavirus - 3/14/2020 2:39:53 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 9626
Joined: 11/16/2015
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quote:

ORIGINAL: z1812

An interesting article about Flu statistics and the problematic nature of predictive modeling.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/flu-deaths-reality-check-1.1127442


A very good quote from the above link for all the people suggesting drastic measures:

quote:


When I asked him if there are consequences from over-stating the mortality impact of flu, Jefferson answered: "Yes. Scaring people justifies evidence-free policies. Yes, no one knows exactly what the threat is. The only certainty are the returns for industry."


There are lies, damn lies, and statistics. Using statistics and how you word the questions, you can show anything that you want to show - whether or not it is true or just supports your agenda.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to z1812)
Post #: 360
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