Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

Overwhelmed Fronts Commands

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> Overwhelmed Fronts Commands Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Overwhelmed Fronts Commands - 1/19/2020 8:56:45 AM   
adarbrauner

 

Posts: 1477
Joined: 11/3/2016
From: Zichron Yaaqov, Israel; Before, Treviso, Italy
Status: offline
Stil in 1941, most of the Soviet fronts are overwhelmed with units, some of them, namely the Southwestern front, can barely keep beneath the 140 attached units limit;

in this situation what is better, to keep a new army attached to the far away Stavka, or to the nearest front?
Post #: 1
RE: Overwhelmed Fronts Commands - 1/19/2020 11:00:51 AM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4600
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline
You are almost always better off putting armies into STAVKA rather than an overloaded front.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus
Although the exact formulas are complicated for most of the time you can approximate adding command points to be just like subtracting points from a command leadership rating. So adding a division (2 command points) over the command limit is like turning a rating six commander into a ratings four commander. The formula for calculating whether a ratings check is passed is complicated with many modifiers. But at its simplest it is saying each point of ratings will give you a 10% chance of passing a ratings check at first level (Soviet army?) and 5% at the second level (Soviet front).

Say you have a Soviet front with 30 divisions each with 10 ratings a turn checked at front level with a commander with ratings of 6 - then you have 300 ratings a turn checked with a probability of 30% of passing (6*5%) - or on average passing 90. If you add just one division over the limit then you 310 ratings checks a turn checked with a probability of 20% of passing ( (6-2)*5% ) - or an average passing 62. That is not just losing some of the ten checks on that one division you have just added - but many more losses on ALL of the divisions that are in the Front. That is just from adding one more division. If you add in a whole armies worth of divisions and you are effectively making the ratings of the Front command pointless. They then would have to rely on the ratings checks of STAVKA - but checks from STAVKA would be worth even less because it is even further up the command scale.

So the choice is a second level ratings check with STAVKA, or a second level ratings check with an overloaded front (effectively zero) followed by a third level ratings check with STAVKA (which is worth less than if it was second level)

STAVKA 2nd level check > STAVKA 3rd level check + zero from front check

(note morale ratings do not get a command penalty in the same way as they do not get a range penalty also)

In practical terms many Soviet players I have seen use the Fronts up to their command limits and then have a set of "Independent" armies directly attached to STAVKA. Often they are grouped together in the centre to be the armies closest to where STAVKA is. It is not uniform across the board but I would say still farily tidy.
from post 7 here http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=4727047

< Message edited by Telemecus -- 1/19/2020 11:01:40 AM >


_____________________________

Wargamers Discord https://discord.gg/U6DcDxT

(in reply to adarbrauner)
Post #: 2
RE: Overwhelmed Fronts Commands - 1/19/2020 5:11:36 PM   
thedoctorking


Posts: 1905
Joined: 4/29/2017
Status: offline
Really, you should avoid overloading fronts as much as you can. It is worth reassigning armies even at the enormous AP cost in order to make the front HQ more effective. Playing one long game, when I took over as the Soviet COS, I found the two central fronts under the command of Zhukov and Vatutin and loaded up to 140 CU. Over five or six turns, I unloaded those fronts, using up almost all my AP in the process, and the troops under those commanders started making a lot more of their rolls.

One nice feature of v.1.12 is that HQ's that get overrun come back as STAVKA armies. So the overloading of SW Front at the beginning of the 41GC will quickly resolve itself as the Axis forms and reduces the Lvov pocket.

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 3
RE: Overwhelmed Fronts Commands - 1/19/2020 7:43:40 PM   
adarbrauner

 

Posts: 1477
Joined: 11/3/2016
From: Zichron Yaaqov, Israel; Before, Treviso, Italy
Status: offline
Thank you for the explanations...if this the case, I'd think of a modification creating more numerous fronts...before time, something around July 1941...do you think it as unrealistic, and that the poor command coordination reflected a big flaw in soviet army organization during first year of war?


PS, I like very much last beta, that I finally installed today, because I never liked seeing HQs extracting themselves with teleporting from well sealed pocket;

also, I notice a more frequent "shattering" of (meanwhile) soviet units as a result of a much powerful german assault, I find it more realistic and appropriate too...

< Message edited by adarbrauner -- 1/19/2020 7:50:26 PM >

(in reply to thedoctorking)
Post #: 4
RE: Overwhelmed Fronts Commands - 1/19/2020 7:50:31 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4600
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline
Yes to both. My guess is if they allowed you to create more front HQs in unit creation for the Soviet side, they would make it so expensive in points terms that it would not be worth it.


_____________________________

Wargamers Discord https://discord.gg/U6DcDxT

(in reply to adarbrauner)
Post #: 5
RE: Overwhelmed Fronts Commands - 1/19/2020 8:17:43 PM   
thedoctorking


Posts: 1905
Joined: 4/29/2017
Status: offline
I think the idea of having a limited number of fronts is to reflect disorganization in the Soviet command structure. By the spring of 1942, you have enough fronts to mostly command all your units, especially if you leave gutted formations behind the front on STAVKA command set to 20% TOE and use them as replacement depots (that is, after using all your AP for the turn, you can bring a gutted formation that has been sitting on refit for several turns forward and merge it into a front-line unit, supplying a few thousand reasonably high-morale and well-trained troops to a depleted formation).

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 6
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> Overwhelmed Fronts Commands Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.113