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How does one load an air group on a TF?

 
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How does one load an air group on a TF? - 1/17/2020 3:57:46 PM   
John 3rd


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I am trying to get a group of American Squadrons loaded onto ship in the TF for Dec 7th. How do I use the Editor to do this? The squadron lists location for the planes but there does not appear to be a TF option...

THANKS!

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RE: How does one load an air group on a TF? - 1/17/2020 4:50:16 PM   
John 3rd


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I've placed a trio of TFs NE of Horn Isle on Dec 7th. One is an Amphib TF carrying 2 Base Forces and 3 Artillery units and the other is a Air Transport TF carrying 3 A-24 and 1 P-40 Squadron. They are escorted by an Air TF comprised of the CLV Charlotte, Pensacola, and 2 DD.

Though I've set each Squadron to be on a specific AK, it does not show.

I've set the LCU to the TF number but they don't show up either.

Need some advice. Know I'm probably missing something simple...


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RE: How does one load an air group on a TF? - 1/17/2020 5:59:02 PM   
BillBrown


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From the editor manual.

All air units that start a scenario on a ship must be specified as such by entering the Ship
Number in the Air Group’s Location field. Do not specify that the unit is located at a base and
assign it a TF number, as this will cause serious AI issues.

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RE: How does one load an air group on a TF? - 1/17/2020 6:03:48 PM   
John 3rd


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Did that but it still doesn't show. Screen shot:





Attachment (1)

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RE: How does one load an air group on a TF? - 1/17/2020 6:04:22 PM   
John 3rd


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Have to be missing something simple!

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RE: How does one load an air group on a TF? - 1/17/2020 6:09:59 PM   
Kull


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Here's a post from JWE on designing the Guadalcanal Scenario. It seems there is a requirement for "first turn" loading of units to take place at a base (see bold).

quote:

ORIGINAL: Symon

Have Matt's Guad AI files in hand, am tweaking them so they will be challenging (hopefully). Getting help from Andy Mac, who has graciously offered to vet the results, so people can expect some sliders and a fastball or two. While doing this, I thought it might be nice to post some of the relevant kickers, thoughts, suggestions, and conclusions that the process turns up. Admittedly, very few of these will be applicable to GC scenarios, but modders who like nitty-gritty details may find some of the ideas to have value..

First Take - Initial Setup: Everybody knows what happened, so everybody dumps the entire 1st MarDiv on Guad and wipes out all Japanese reinforcement attempts. But ... the whole 1st MarDiv wasn't there, just initial combat elements; 11,000 out of 18,000 for the division. The rest peetered in over the next two weeks. But even those combat elements were severely short on supply. So what to do?

1st MarDiv is broken up into 1st turn, magic-move and non-magic-move TFs. Magic-move is the combat elements and load/move/land on 1st turn execution. Non-magic-move is everybody else and load/move on 1st turn execution, but take a week to get there. So far so good.

1st turn loading requires units to be at a base and the Phib TF to be there as well, but the loading algorithm will fill the TF with troops and fill everything else with supply, down to the 10% limit of what's at the port. Way too much supply for 1st MarDiv.

So picked an out-of-the-way place, like Suva, and put the units and TF there; Suva because it's not on the logistics flow. So tweaked and twonked and judiciously cut Suva's supply so 1st MarDiv can only load a minimal amount before hitting the 10% base limit. So far so good. But there's a bunch of US and NZ LCUs at Suva and they all have maybe an extra 1000 or so of supply in their opening day OOBs, so once the opening day TFs exhaust the LIMITED supply at Suva, and sail off to glory, the local LCUs will dump their excess supply and Suva's back in business.

Now, 1st MarDiv assaults Lunga/Tulagi with jack squat for supply. Why is this important? Because the first reinforcement convoy, with support elements of the Div, and additional supply, departed Wellington on a long voyage and that's the first box of 'rats they got.

So the assault elements will take disruption and fatigue. And it will not be alleviated. And a ton of units (2nd Marines, Paras, Raiders) are stuck on Tulagi, once the transports flee. So it's a couple of disrupted, fatigued Marine Rgts, with squat for supply, sitting on a piece of real estate. And more of them across the water at Tulagi, without any way of getting home (Unless you know how). Sound familiar?

Done this way to give the Japanese player a possibility. The AI will not have the Ichiki Bn assault the 1st MarDiv. Something else will happen.


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RE: How does one load an air group on a TF? - 1/17/2020 6:14:29 PM   
John 3rd


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Yaaa...I remembered that and moved the TFs from a few hexes away from Horn Ilse to Horn Isle. This move got the LCU loaded but not the aircraft...

Thanks, as always, Kull!


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RE: How does one load an air group on a TF? - 1/17/2020 6:40:54 PM   
Kull


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I found another JWE post (ironically in response to you) where he says you can "check to see what LCUs are scheduled to load on a transport TF", which implies that you can't preload air units.

Just thinking out loud, but we know that certain units can be preloaded with "native" air (CVs, AVs, etc), so perhaps you could create some sort of specialized transport that has a slot for just a single airframe, and overload it to the extent that it can't launch those aircraft?

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RE: How does one load an air group on a TF? - 1/17/2020 7:41:41 PM   
btd64


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Wouldn't a AKV work?....GP

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RE: How does one load an air group on a TF? - 1/17/2020 9:13:49 PM   
Kull


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quote:

ORIGINAL: btd64

Wouldn't a AKV work?....GP


For whatever reason, the code won't load air units onto a ship at the start of a Scenario, nor will it let you stick one on a ship as a transported item. You can't even start off with land units on a ship, but at least you can set them to load. THAT is the whole reason (or much of it) behind the "magic move" task force. If you could create a fully loaded TF a few hexes from the landing target, that would be a far simpler situation, but apparently it's not possible.

Just look at the shenanigans Symon had to go through just to reduce the amount of supply on the troop carrying ships in his Guadalcanal scenario.

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RE: How does one load an air group on a TF? - 1/17/2020 10:06:20 PM   
John 3rd


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Well...crap...


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RE: How does one load an air group on a TF? - 1/18/2020 12:44:57 PM   
PaxMondo


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yes, but they load AND move in the same turn. So it does work.

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RE: How does one load an air group on a TF? - 1/18/2020 1:19:57 PM   
Trugrit


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This can be done. I’ve done it but it’s been awhile.

Air groups can be loaded as cargo at the start of a scenario but everything has to line up.

They need to be in a task force, the correct type of task force.
They can not be restricted….etc.

As I recall they will not show up on the ship screen under troops like they normally do, the ship
will just show supplies but they are there if you have set it up correctly.

Where you want to look for them is on your naval air group screen.
They should also show up on the ship screen upper right in the editor.

I’m not sure I can walk you through the set up but I can try if need me to.



< Message edited by Trugrit -- 1/18/2020 1:53:07 PM >

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RE: How does one load an air group on a TF? - 1/18/2020 1:52:48 PM   
Kull


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Good to know guys, thanks for correcting my blatant falsehood!

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RE: How does one load an air group on a TF? - 1/18/2020 1:59:54 PM   
Trugrit


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It is sort of illegal or gamey.

It seems to skip the load verification process.

As I recall when the cargo ship unloads the air group the
ship does not have to be docked and the air group arrives ready to fly.

But I could be mistaken, it has been awhile.




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RE: How does one load an air group on a TF? - 1/18/2020 6:32:07 PM   
John 3rd


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That is really interesting. Might be worth a try. GREAT thanks!

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