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RE: Naval Game in SC a Big Disappointment

 
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RE: Naval Game in SC a Big Disappointment - 1/14/2020 10:48:38 PM   
Hairog


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Simulacra53

1939
100% by sub
0% by a/c
0% by surface vessels

1940
0% by sub
0% by aircraft
100% by surface vessels

1941
100% by sub
0% by a/c
0% by surface vessel

So by extension for the first two full years of the war carriers were invulnerable to a/c, right?



Ha! Nice try Simulacra53. That just took you down a notch to Simulara54.



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RE: Naval Game in SC a Big Disappointment - 1/16/2020 5:19:12 AM   
canuckgamer

 

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Hairog, I'm wondering if you will be releasing the corrected files for the naval mod shortly? We would like to start another PBEM game but not until we can play it with the mod. Thanks.

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Post #: 32
RE: Naval Game in SC a Big Disappointment - 1/16/2020 6:05:58 AM   
Hairog


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Still working on why the units and their names don't matchup. I'll contact Hubert or Bill and see if they can shed some light.



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Post #: 33
RE: Naval Game in SC a Big Disappointment - 1/20/2020 12:40:21 AM   
ThunderLizard2

 

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One issue I have with naval mod is the retreat mechanisms. Carriers (or others) when attacked often retreat towards the enemy not away from the enemy units. Can this be fixed?

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Post #: 34
RE: Naval Game in SC a Big Disappointment - 1/21/2020 1:19:12 AM   
Hairog


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I gave carriers a 3 hex retreat range, but I don't know how to control what direction. Hopefully Hubert or Bill will read this and give us an answer

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Post #: 35
RE: Naval Game in SC a Big Disappointment - 1/21/2020 1:46:16 AM   
canuckgamer

 

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I'm a little confused, from ThunderLizard's comment, this mod must have been working properly at one time. I'm wondering if you have been able to contact Hubert and or Bill to find out what is wrong with the current download? In addition, do you think this will be corrected this week or should we just go ahead and start a new PBEM game without the mod? Thanks.

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Post #: 36
RE: Naval Game in SC a Big Disappointment - 1/21/2020 2:01:21 AM   
Elessar2


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I'd sure like to see this with that new base Pacific map using a much larger scale, along with the shorter turns which would now be workable (since in the base game you can't make the turns too short because, after adjusting movement ranges down to compensate, land units would be highly non-manueverable).

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Post #: 37
RE: Naval Game in SC a Big Disappointment - 1/21/2020 2:43:32 AM   
Hairog


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Elessar2

I'd sure like to see this with that new base Pacific map using a much larger scale, along with the shorter turns which would now be workable (since in the base game you can't make the turns too short because, after adjusting movement ranges down to compensate, land units would be highly non-manueverable).


It works for SC3 World at War. What new base Pacific map are you referring to?

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Post #: 38
RE: Naval Game in SC a Big Disappointment - 1/21/2020 8:50:43 PM   
Hubert Cater

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThunderLizard2

One issue I have with naval mod is the retreat mechanisms. Carriers (or others) when attacked often retreat towards the enemy not away from the enemy units. Can this be fixed?


With the next game version update this should be improved, not always a guarantee in the retreat direction, but more of an effort by the engine to not have it end up next to enemy units if possible.

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Post #: 39
RE: Naval Game in SC a Big Disappointment - 1/21/2020 9:12:43 PM   
canuckgamer

 

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I'm wondering if the naval mod will be added to the community pack in this next update? Or will a working version be made available before the update? Thanks.

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Post #: 40
RE: Naval Game in SC a Big Disappointment - 1/24/2020 10:08:31 PM   
guncrib

 

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Not finding the naval mod to be worth playing to tell you the truth.

There is absolutely NO reason when playing as the axis to invest in any naval related research. German subs are rendered virtually useless in this mod.

8 hex spotting for CVs is outrageous and impossible to use subs in. Canadian screening forces out duel German Raiders? Nonsense. Great attempt but it just renders the German and Italian naval combat worse than historical reality. The purpose of having naval components in a game is try to and change the way it was done historically, not by making it harder to even exist as a naval force within the first year.

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Post #: 41
RE: Naval Game in SC a Big Disappointment - 1/25/2020 1:53:25 AM   
Hairog


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quote:

German subs are rendered virtually useless in this mod.


Where were you when I needed playtesters?

A few questions.

How many carriers does your opponent have? Historically it was the plane that was probably launched from a carrier, that closed the Gap that doomed the Uboat.

When in the game is this happening, from the very beginning? I don't think there are that many carriers around early on are there?

quote:

In 1944, the Japanese could scout to a range of 560 miles and attack at a range of 400 miles. In comparison, the US Navy could scout out to just 350 miles and attack to around 200 miles. (Reynolds 139)


The scale of the game is around 24 miles per hex.

Another challenge is a carrier would be sending out scouts as it was traveling in daylight. In game all ships have a 2 hex wide path while moving and then the search distance that is moddable only works at the end of the move. Theoretically, a carrier should have a 14 hexes scouting range as it's traveling. My thought was that an 8 hex range at the end was a good setting taking into account bad weather, night, mechanical problems.

What are you trying to do with your subs that involves carriers? Historically subs were responsible for sinking or damaging a good percentage of carriers. However, most of the carriers were torpedoed at known choke points. I don't believe many if any were damaged while on the open ocean. So, if you're trying to torpedo a Fast Carrier Task Force in the middle of the Atlantic, you should fail.

quote:

Canadian screening forces out duel German Raiders?


Could you give more details please? I don't know what you mean by "screening forces".

My purpose in modding the current system was to make it closer to reality. Did I go too far in one direction? Very possible, but easy to change. What would you suggest as far as changes go?


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Post #: 42
RE: Naval Game in SC a Big Disappointment - 1/25/2020 2:49:25 PM   
Kilo59


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Hi Hairog,

My friend and I just started a pbem with your 1939 Naval mod, and I am enjoying the additional capabilities the mod gives to ships. I am the Allies which start with a couple CV's so I think I'm enjoying it a bit more than he is, but that's neither here nor there.

My question is, why does the mod inhibit the purchase of any unit until May 10, '40? Additionally, the purchase restriction wasn't lifted for my friend playing the Axis, until the following turn in May '40.

We are also playing a pbem with the 1939 Naval mod in 'World at War', and there aren't any unit purchase restrictions, like there are in 'War in Europe'.

Thanks.

< Message edited by Kilo59 -- 1/25/2020 3:29:20 PM >

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Post #: 43
RE: Naval Game in SC a Big Disappointment - 1/25/2020 8:41:01 PM   
Hairog


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There are a couple of bugs we're trying to chase down.

1. no purchases before May 10. No reason for this. I will be changed during next release.

2. Names of ships, generals, units etc. are all messed up when you try and purchase them. I think I have that one solved. Testing it now.

Hopefully, in the next day or two, both of these will be fixed.

I'll need more input before I change the scouting range of Fast Carrier Task Forces and Hunter Killer Task Forces. One solution might be to make it a little tougher to damage a Wolf Pack.

May I ask you Kilo59 if you are having an easy time dealing with subs with your Carrier task forces? In all my playtesting I still found them to be hard to run off.

As to World of War, there should not be any purchasing restrictions bu then again there were none designed into the WIE version either. I'll check and make sure but I would say no there are no purchase restrictions in WAW Naval Mods.

< Message edited by Hairog -- 1/25/2020 8:43:36 PM >


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Post #: 44
RE: Naval Game in SC a Big Disappointment - 1/25/2020 11:18:48 PM   
canuckgamer

 

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We have been delaying the start of a new PBEM game until a corrected version of the Naval Mod is available. If it helps we can give you some feedback but from what you have written about it I definitely think it is a move toward a more realistic system for naval operations.

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Post #: 45
RE: Naval Game in SC a Big Disappointment - 1/26/2020 4:01:00 AM   
Hairog


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The next version will be like the version before it but with the names corrected and the build dates corrected. I got all the corrections done, but I'm just making sure by having the AI play itself a few times.



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Post #: 46
RE: Naval Game in SC a Big Disappointment - 1/26/2020 2:23:23 PM   
Kilo59


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hairog

I'll need more input before I change the scouting range of Fast Carrier Task Forces and Hunter Killer Task Forces. One solution might be to make it a little tougher to damage a Wolf Pack.

May I ask you Kilo59 if you are having an easy time dealing with subs with your Carrier task forces? In all my playtesting I still found them to be hard to run off.



We are only in to June '40 of our first play through with your Naval mod, so I don't have much feedback to give you as I have not done any wolfpack hunting yet.

I can say that the mod's ZoC's coupled with setting up my task force formations per your recommendation, have squashed a couple 'zoom & boom' attempts on my CV's. For me, this in itself has made the games naval engagements more enjoyable and realistic.

Additionally, I think the CV spotting ranges are spot on :). Especially with regard to your quote above from Reynolds. I don't know what impact increasing wolfpack strength above 8 would have, as DD's are already 2 points lower than that at 6.

A couple observations I've made so far are:
1) The Polish DD that the Brit's get, comes in at strength 5 but can be reinforced to 10.
2) The two Canadian DD's that the Allies get, come into the game at strength 10. This may be the imbalance with the Canadian DD's that guncrib was referring to above?

So far I am very happy with the changes your mod has made to the naval side of the game. Thank you!


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Post #: 47
RE: Naval Game in SC a Big Disappointment - 1/27/2020 6:22:32 AM   
Hairog


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Okay, HERE it is. It's been working for me on two machines.

1939 Storm Over Europe Naval Mod 3.2

Fixed - Unit names mix up

- Units can be produced as dictated by the original campaign. Most are September 1939

I was having trouble with the graphics. For some reason, it was giving me a mixture of different mods. Hopefully it was just my machine.

I changed the color of the UK units just for canuckgamer.

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Post #: 48
RE: Naval Game in SC a Big Disappointment - 1/27/2020 4:50:27 PM   
canuckgamer

 

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Thanks Hairog. Still having issues installing the mod. I downloaded the file and it is named "1939 Storm Over Europe Naval Mod" with a file size of 21,524 KB.

I then extracted it to here: C:\Users\"YOUR_COMPUTER"\Documents\My Games\Strategic Command WWII - War In Europe/Campaigns using 7Zip.

Once unzipped there is a yellow folder 60.9 MB. When I start up the game it is not shown as a campaign that I can choose to play.

I noticed that the stock campaign scenarios that come with the game are not there but in C/Program Files (X86) / Matrix Games / Campaigns


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Post #: 49
RE: Naval Game in SC a Big Disappointment - 1/27/2020 5:09:16 PM   
canuckgamer

 

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Okay so I did it again and this time there was a "white box" file 1939 Storm Over Europe Naval Mod.cgn and the yellow folder. I started up the game and the 1939 Naval Mod Campaign was there so I chose it. The game displayed the Rule Britannia and Naval Mod text. However, the counters for the naval units were the stock counters and not the hexagonal ones for the naval mods.

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RE: Naval Game in SC a Big Disappointment - 1/27/2020 7:05:17 PM   
canuckgamer

 

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Just to clarify, in my second attempt I double clicked the yellow folder and then the cgn file appeared. Looking at your previous posts, is the dat file missing? Also the Axis counters were the stock counters but I noticed on French wolfpack unit in the Med that was the hexagonal mod one.

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RE: Naval Game in SC a Big Disappointment - 1/27/2020 7:17:58 PM   
canuckgamer

 

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Actually my clarification was incorrect. The cgn file only appeared when I copied the unextracted file to the campaign folder and then used 7 Zip to "extract here". I just started up the game as the Allies and the counters are the naval mod ones. IF I start a game as the Axis, their naval counters are still the stock ones. Getting closer.

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RE: Naval Game in SC a Big Disappointment - 1/27/2020 10:15:14 PM   
canuckgamer

 

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Started a Hot Seat game as a test. The Axis naval counters are still the stock counters, etc. When you click on them they do indicate the new terminology such as Strike Force. The builds are okay in Production. The Allied naval counters are the mod hexagonal counters so it looks like everything is working correctly for the Allies. A minor point since you indicated that you had changed the color of the Allies back to the original game. They are still the mod colors. No big deal. Thanks.

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Post #: 53
RE: Naval Game in SC a Big Disappointment - 1/28/2020 2:40:12 AM   
Hairog


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Dang, same thing happens to me. I was hoping it was my computer.

OK try this...

Download the file below and put it into the Mods folder. Then chose this mod in settings.

Olde Mod

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RE: Naval Game in SC a Big Disappointment - 1/28/2020 3:29:07 AM   
canuckgamer

 

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I downloaded the file, copied it to the Mods folder and chose "extract here" using 7 Zip. The extracted file was a yellow folder called "olde sc3E Naval Mod Bits". I started up a hot seat game and in the mods saw it there so I clicked on it to activate. That didn't work so I then ended the game and re-started thinking that maybe the mod had to be activated before starting a new campaign for it to work. Unfortunately the Axis naval counters were still the stock counters.
I find it strange that the mod works for SC WAW and not for this one. I would think it is the same except the addition of the Japanese navy. Anyway, even though neither of us like the naval operations as they are now, we are going to start our new PBEM. Hopefully this can be fixed at which point we will try it. Thanks for all your help.

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RE: Naval Game in SC a Big Disappointment - 1/28/2020 10:04:38 AM   
Kilo59


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I think the updated mod works fine so far, excluding the counters. The unit purchase restrictions have been removed.

I prefer using the Knights Cross 2D counters anyway, so I just renamed the /_1939 Storm over Europe Naval Mod/Bitmaps/ folder so the mods counters aren't loaded.

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Post #: 56
RE: Naval Game in SC a Big Disappointment - 1/29/2020 1:05:35 AM   
Elessar2


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I really would like to see someone make a mod for that new WitP map, giving more room for manuever (and extra ship counters!). Right now I can park Kido Butai in Truk, and be assured of being able to warp in one turn to pretty much any location on my defensive perimeter and nuke whatever is trying to invade or raid me.

The issue with a relatively small-scale map is that you HAVE to base the turn lengths on the movement rates of land units so as to approximate the actual pace of historic land campaigns. Shorten the turns, and you have to shorten how far land units can move, to the point that in tough terrain and.or weather they can't. Things are very tight as it is-in China I often cannot move my armies into a mountainous hex which is in the ZoC of an enemy unit.

Expand the scale, keep the relative land move distances the same (hex by hex), reduce the turn length to compensate--and now you no longer have hyperspace fleets which can teleport halfway across the map. Just like with land units I'd have to plan ahead fairly significantly, and risk being several turns out of position if suddenly attacked from an unexpected direction. And for a naval buff like me having dozens of ships buzzing about would be heaven...[right now it's June '41 and I have exactly 3 cruiser units to my name]

I am seriously considering making a world map using the maximum size allowable in the editor, tho I'll likely lose my mind before I am able to finish the beast.

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RE: Naval Game in SC a Big Disappointment - 1/29/2020 1:45:11 AM   
stecal

 

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So I installed ver 3.2 & the Olde Mod & everything seems to work OK except I do not see any convoy routes

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Post #: 58
RE: Naval Game in SC a Big Disappointment - 1/31/2020 1:38:25 AM   
Hairog


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Convoys - Ok you have to go into the Editor. Open up the 1939 Storm Over Europe Naval Mod campaign under User Campaigns. Chose the .cgn file. Once the scenario is loaded, choose the Campaign heading and scroll down to Edit AI Scripts and open that.

There could be multiple scripts with an * alongside them. Down at the bottom of the screen choose Update All. The window might disappear just wait, it could take a while depending upon your computer. Eventually, click on the window and it should come back with all the * are gone. Click "OK"

Then do the same for Edit Event Scripts. Yada yada then click "OK".

Exit the Editor and if it asks you to save do so.

Start game and it should work.

Or you can download version 3.3 where I have it done that for you.



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