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RE: Catfished! A grudge match - Cheesteak (J) v. Aaffins (A) BTS

 
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RE: Catfished! A grudge match - Cheesteak (J) v. Aaffin... - 4/28/2020 2:41:25 PM   
RangerJoe


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Yes, but the MTBs can hopefully use up OPS points which could then cause the enemy bombardment group to remain within range of LBA.

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Post #: 61
RE: Catfished! A grudge match - Cheesteak (J) v. Aaffin... - 4/28/2020 6:27:54 PM   
aaffins

 

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I think PTs seem like quite a good idea, wouldn't the river reduce the evasion abilities of the IJN warships, similar to other straights such as Malacca and Manila Bay entrance?

Unfortunately I don't believe I have any RN MTBs available and USN PTs can't be used at a British base I guess?

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RE: Catfished! A grudge match - Cheesteak (J) v. Aaffin... - 4/28/2020 6:45:05 PM   
RangerJoe


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You need US supplies for American PT Boats, I do believe.

Of course, a sub or two with sub laid minefields could also be a surprise.

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(in reply to aaffins)
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RE: Catfished! A grudge match - Cheesteak (J) v. Aaffin... - 4/28/2020 7:27:08 PM   
HansBolter


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quote:

ORIGINAL: aaffins

I think PTs seem like quite a good idea, wouldn't the river reduce the evasion abilities of the IJN warships, similar to other straights such as Malacca and Manila Bay entrance?

Unfortunately I don't believe I have any RN MTBs available and USN PTs can't be used at a British base I guess?



Be careful making assumptions about rivers. They are unique in that they are hexsides.

I discovered to my great chagrin, that mines are useless in rivers, where one would assume their concentration in a small area would enhance their lethality.

The same may be true of attempted interceptions in rivers.

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(in reply to aaffins)
Post #: 64
RE: Catfished! A grudge match - Cheesteak (J) v. Aaffin... - 4/28/2020 7:34:24 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter


quote:

ORIGINAL: aaffins

I think PTs seem like quite a good idea, wouldn't the river reduce the evasion abilities of the IJN warships, similar to other straights such as Malacca and Manila Bay entrance?

Unfortunately I don't believe I have any RN MTBs available and USN PTs can't be used at a British base I guess?



Be careful making assumptions about rivers. They are unique in that they are hexsides.

I discovered to my great chagrin, that mines are useless in rivers, where one would assume their concentration in a small area would enhance their lethality.

The same may be true of attempted interceptions in rivers.

I think between shoals and the narrow width the ability to maneuver in rivers would be highly limited, so PTs would not be able to get the right distance for a shot at the side of a ship and trying to intercept the enemy would lead to collisions. And mines in a narrow channel would leave no path for friendly shipping, so it would not be wise to have mines there. With that in mind, I think the game designers decided to not have them be a factor in rivers.



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(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 65
RE: Catfished! A grudge match - Cheesteak (J) v. Aaffin... - 4/28/2020 8:01:57 PM   
RangerJoe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter


quote:

ORIGINAL: aaffins

I think PTs seem like quite a good idea, wouldn't the river reduce the evasion abilities of the IJN warships, similar to other straights such as Malacca and Manila Bay entrance?

Unfortunately I don't believe I have any RN MTBs available and USN PTs can't be used at a British base I guess?



Be careful making assumptions about rivers. They are unique in that they are hexsides.

I discovered to my great chagrin, that mines are useless in rivers, where one would assume their concentration in a small area would enhance their lethality.

The same may be true of attempted interceptions in rivers.

I think between shoals and the narrow width the ability to maneuver in rivers would be highly limited, so PTs would not be able to get the right distance for a shot at the side of a ship and trying to intercept the enemy would lead to collisions. And mines in a narrow channel would leave no path for friendly shipping, so it would not be wise to have mines there. With that in mind, I think the game designers decided to not have them be a factor in rivers.


Not to mention the effects of the river currents as well as the potential washing away of the river bed. This is besides flooding as well as low water levels.

_____________________________

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“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
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(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 66
RE: Catfished! A grudge match - Cheesteak (J) v. Aaffin... - 4/29/2020 2:05:02 AM   
aaffins

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter


quote:

ORIGINAL: aaffins

I think PTs seem like quite a good idea, wouldn't the river reduce the evasion abilities of the IJN warships, similar to other straights such as Malacca and Manila Bay entrance?

Unfortunately I don't believe I have any RN MTBs available and USN PTs can't be used at a British base I guess?



Be careful making assumptions about rivers. They are unique in that they are hexsides.

I discovered to my great chagrin, that mines are useless in rivers, where one would assume their concentration in a small area would enhance their lethality.

The same may be true of attempted interceptions in rivers.

I think between shoals and the narrow width the ability to maneuver in rivers would be highly limited, so PTs would not be able to get the right distance for a shot at the side of a ship and trying to intercept the enemy would lead to collisions. And mines in a narrow channel would leave no path for friendly shipping, so it would not be wise to have mines there. With that in mind, I think the game designers decided to not have them be a factor in rivers.


Not to mention the effects of the river currents as well as the potential washing away of the river bed. This is besides flooding as well as low water levels.


Interesting and informative discussion. Seems like my options for keeping bombardments away from Calutta are limited.

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 67
RE: Catfished! A grudge match - Cheesteak (J) v. Aaffin... - 4/29/2020 2:19:23 AM   
aaffins

 

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4/9/42

Tonight's bombardment is perhaps the worst yet, a total of 5 cruisers destroy 7 a/c and damage the airfield. It's not the individual results, it's the cumulative attrition on my aircraft pools. Will have to consider moving to alternate fields. Luckily next door Howrah is inland and built up. Slightly to the north Jamshedpur and Ranchi are quickly expanding. These are the key bases in good terrain where I plan to defend the rail line into Calcutta. All are at least Lvl 3 forts, garrisoned with at least a brigade; Howrah has the 18th Brit Div.
The RAF continues the bombing campaign against Asansol. I believe the field is closed for the moment. No engineering or AAA units detected as yet.
Further east the Burmese get hammered in open terrain. We're not going to be able to break out on the main road, back to the jungle.

In China he cleverly sends two divisions on a flanking maneuver after being stopped at Tuyun and captures Kweiyang. So he's on the doorstep to Chungking, but without Tuyun he doesn't exactly have a great supply line. I have a unit w/ a construction regiment entrenching in the terrain 2 hexes SW of Chungking as a roadblock.
An ill-advised attack over at Ankang nets him over 7,000 casualties and the 9th Tank Regt. evaporates.

No sweep over Kalgoorlie today and two USAAF squadrons take advantage, claiming 16 Netties along with a couple Zero escorts. He loses an additional 7 planes (reported) to the AAA we have massed.

Good turn for the Allies all in all.




(in reply to aaffins)
Post #: 68
RE: Catfished! A grudge match - Cheesteak (J) v. Aaffin... - 4/29/2020 3:34:41 AM   
CaptBeefheart


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I'd sure consider basing a lot of aircraft at Howrah. That's a nice field to rail to when Calcutta is getting hammered.

If you want Quentin McHale (i.e. U.S. PTs), you'll need to have an Aus or U.S. unit present in a base and use PP to convert it to a U.S. base (e.g. Aus units will allow conversion of the base to SW Pac). You'll then be able to build PTs and barges at the base.

EDIT: I should clarify that the U.S. unit would have to be one you shipped over from a U.S. command, not Merrill's Marauders or another one that starts in theater.

Cheers,
CB

< Message edited by CaptBeefheart -- 4/29/2020 3:37:44 AM >


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Post #: 69
RE: Catfished! A grudge match - Cheesteak (J) v. Aaffin... - 4/29/2020 3:46:46 AM   
aaffins

 

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McHale's Navy! A classic. Unfortunately I don't think switching Calcutta's command HQ makes sense just to allow for PT boats; it'd cost 1,300 PPs.

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RE: Catfished! A grudge match - Cheesteak (J) v. Aaffin... - 4/29/2020 5:08:12 AM   
Alfred

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: aaffins

McHale's Navy! A classic. Unfortunately I don't think switching Calcutta's command HQ makes sense just to allow for PT boats; it'd cost 1,300 PPs.


You don't have to.

The most accurate and complete answers to questions are most commonly found in either dev or my posts. For PT boat creation, see my post in this thread:

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3945331&mpage=1&key=boat�

The sea approach from Chittagong is shallow hexes. That is ideal operating water for PT boats.

As to minefields, this is not really a river situation. The "river" exists only to allow passage from Diamond Harbour to Calcutta. A TF transiting goes fully into both the DH and Calcutta hexes. The usual characteristics of a minefield in a base hex should apply.

Alfred

(in reply to aaffins)
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RE: Catfished! A grudge match - Cheesteak (J) v. Aaffin... - 4/29/2020 5:55:10 AM   
CaptBeefheart


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Alfred is correct, you could switch the HQ of one of those bases to the west of Calcutta for a lot less PP and sail them over.

I had no idea on the transport method of creating PTs. Thanks for bringing that up, Alfred.

Cheers,
CB

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RE: Catfished! A grudge match - Cheesteak (J) v. Aaffin... - 4/29/2020 12:13:45 PM   
Bearcat2

 

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US minefields on the West coast were controlled mines electrically detonated. The minefields were laid and maintained by civilians contracted by the Corp of Engineers, they were attached to the river bed. An example of the "problems" encountered was by fishermen complaining that their nets were being caught in the minefield at Astoria.


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RE: Catfished! A grudge match - Cheesteak (J) v. Aaffin... - 4/30/2020 12:39:44 AM   
aaffins

 

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Wow, great information as always, thank you Alfred. I think perhaps my best approach with Perth in Japanese hands would be to create a large cargo TF at SF and sail it to India via the Atlantic and unload at perhaps Madras, then hop over with local support.

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RE: Catfished! A grudge match - Cheesteak (J) v. Aaffin... - 5/1/2020 5:12:12 AM   
aaffins

 

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4/10/42

IJN BBs serve as minesweepers off Bataan:
BB Yamashiro, Mine hits 1
BB Yamato, Mine hits 2
BC Hiei, Mine hits 2, heavy damage
BB Ise, Mine hits 1

Perhaps not their best deployment? Intel is claiming Yamashiro is sunk, which seems spurious, but this certainly is not bad.

This is: CM Abdiel gets sunk by an IJN bombardment group trying to lay her mines at Calcutta, leaving me bereft of minelayers in the Far East theater. It had appeared the enemy was standing off for a turn but I guess not.
We lose another 4 a/c at Calcutta to the bombardment...evac of our a/c to begin soon...the few fighters we can put up are swept aside fairly easily and a Liz squadron does significant damage

I get a tanker convoy I forgot to reroute away from Perth sunk, disappointing






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RE: Catfished! A grudge match - Cheesteak (J) v. Aaffin... - 5/1/2020 6:01:40 AM   
Alfred

 

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You still have SS.  All SS can lay mines, provided you have the right ones in the pools.

Alfred

(in reply to aaffins)
Post #: 76
RE: Catfished! A grudge match - Cheesteak (J) v. Aaffin... - 5/3/2020 3:08:07 PM   
aaffins

 

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4/11/42

CL Ceres and DD Isis sortie from Calcutta to try to get rid of the 'goalkeeper' DDs he has blocking the river mouth at Diamond Harbor. They exchange shells with minimal damage.

7 CLs and a couple CAs bombard Calcutta tonight. With the airfield evacuated they hit the port. We have a few ships trapped, most notably a couple older RN CLs that were damaged weeks ago.

His leading ground elements - 90th Div, 55th Inf Regt and 9th Tank - reach Ranchi. This is the first place he'll meet real ground resistance from me as it's on the rail line into Calcutta I plan to protect. We have the British 70th Div as well as a US armored battalion and Aussie Inf Brig among other assorted units. AV advantage of 864 to 581 with Lvl 3 forts, so he won't be taking the base without reinforcements.
He's actually made a tactical error, I believe, by not guarding Asansol behind him. An Indian cavalry unit moved in and will occupy the base next turn. I'm moving in my strategic reserve - Aus 18th Brig. and Brit 7th Armoured Brig. - by rail to reinforce. This will cut off his leading element and perhaps we can even destroy them. I don't see any ground units really in a good position to reinforce.

Clark Field falls, back to Bataan for the last stand.

< Message edited by aaffins -- 5/3/2020 5:04:48 PM >

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RE: Catfished! A grudge match - Cheesteak (J) v. Aaffin... - 5/3/2020 5:16:55 PM   
aaffins

 

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4/12/42

I haven't contested the skies in India or SW Oz in recent days, letting Zeroes sweep. Today we decide to put our CAP up hoping he's been lulled and we might bag some bombers. Doesn't really work, although we do get quite an aerial battle. We seem to basically break even with large numbers up, but once our initial CAP gets worn down his follow on groups have numerical superiority and typically will gain an advantage. We lose about 35 planes all told and think we took around 20 fighters with us. He is having to fly at pretty long range from Perth to Kalgoorlie so maybe some additional ops losses. On the positive side, our flak claimed 4 Betties at Kalgoorlie. The DBB Allied flak is really something else.

Albany and Corunna Downs fall.

(in reply to aaffins)
Post #: 78
RE: Catfished! A grudge match - Cheesteak (J) v. Aaffin... - 5/4/2020 2:59:10 AM   
aaffins

 

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4/13/42
Really ugly turn for me.

The CA Portland and six USN DDs have been tracking an apparent IJN TF we've been getting whiffs of around Johnston I. Was hoping for a resupply intercept since we were successful at that a few weeks ago. Enemy turns out to be CAs Seiki and Miyago and 3 DDs. Unfortunately we clash in some sort of storm and it ends up a knife fight at under 2,000 yards. We know what that means...long lances. The first engagement results in 2 DDs sunk. I guess he had some hyper aggressive commander (Tanaka?) because he pursued us back towards Pearl and Portland gets torpedoed 4 times in the second engagement and sinks. Ultimately we lose all but 2 DDs. Probably took one with us. The perils of surface combat with the early war IJN I guess.

A bit further east some small Japanese carriers raid my SLOC between SF and Pearl. Unfortunate side effect of not having a credible naval threat. Ranger will arrive soon, so then I'll have at least have 2 CVs and could fight a CVE/CVL or two. He hits the convoy carrying the 6th Marine Regiment and we lose more than half the unit. Of all the convoys I've run kind of stinks that that happens to be the one he gets.

In China, I'm trying to move some AV from around Ichang to Chungking. An IJN unit (which we discover is the 22nd Div) is blocking the road near Chihkiang, I decide to have a go across the river, but no dice, 1:2 odds with over 300 squads disabled. So that's not great. This Chunking situation is starting to become worrisome.

An overzealous squadron of Betties does attack a small cargo convoy at Suva and gets shredded by P-39s. Silver linings?

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Post #: 79
RE: Catfished! A grudge match - Cheesteak (J) v. Aaffin... - 5/5/2020 2:47:42 PM   
Bif1961


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Sounds like the good, the bad and the ugly turn. I got into a knife fight with 3 American Modern BBs, 2 CAs and 5 DDs against my 3 CAs, 2 CLs and 6 DDs. In a two night fight starting at 2,000 yards only one of my long lances hit anything. I lost 2 CAs and 2 DDs for 1 CA and 1 DD, but he wasn't able to bombard my base so a tactical loss and a strategic victory in Nov 42.

(in reply to aaffins)
Post #: 80
RE: Catfished! A grudge match - Cheesteak (J) v. Aaffin... - 5/7/2020 12:23:15 AM   
aaffins

 

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Probably an apt description. I think the American ships that arrive later may have slightly better night exp ratings? Actually something I should look at.

4/14/42
First big hit on the field at Kalgoorlie - he's moved up to 7,000 feet to avoid the Bofors I think. He knocks out 2 USAAF fighters and damages ~20 along with 70+ hits on the airfield. However our flak still bags 2 Bettys and damages over half his bombers.

We launch a counterattack at Ranchi on his vanguard (we had seen them pulling back so figured now or never) with some of our stronger units (70th Div, US armor, etc). We only get 1:2 odds, but he takes nearly 3x casualties (~100 squads) and has a negative supply modifier. His units are cut off from any major resupply route.

4/15/42
IGD and some armor units eliminate a rear guard in far Eastern India, destroying a base force and Inf battalion.

We attack again at Ranchi, adding more units in an attempt to eject him and cause major casualties. We get 1:1 odds but not the victory we hoped for. We still disable 90 squads although we get a ton (48) of vehicles destroyed. These were mostly Improvised Indian AFVs so no big deal, but that's kind of a stupid way to give away VPs.

4/16/42
I CAP Howrah and a moderate aerial battle ensues. Two RAF squadrons and six P-38s I've scraped together do pretty well (approx 1:1) against the first Zero sweep but the follow on of Oscars gets that numerical advantage and we end up on the short end of the battle.

90th IJA Div escapes Ranchi, leaving the 55th Regt alone, we eject them with 60 squads destroyed. The remnants of that unit as well as the 5th Tank and 90th Div are still trapped between Asansol and Ranchi. Asansol now has two Aussie brigades and Forts are up to size 2. We should be able to hold. Potential for a nice score here.


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RE: Catfished! A grudge match - Cheesteak (J) v. Aaffin... - 5/7/2020 1:15:59 AM   
RangerJoe


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Somebody needs to check the vertical range of the Bofors 40mm.

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(in reply to aaffins)
Post #: 82
RE: Catfished! A grudge match - Cheesteak (J) v. Aaffin... - 5/7/2020 4:27:21 AM   
aaffins

 

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Whoops sorry you are 100% correct, Oerlikons rather than Bofors

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Post #: 83
RE: Catfished! A grudge match - Cheesteak (J) v. Aaffin... - 5/15/2020 11:45:27 PM   
aaffins

 

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4/17/42

A fairly quiet turn overall. He captures Jessore - across the river from Calcutta - with two tank regiments, I had mostly pulled out, this was just a delaying action.

He's starting to really discover the potency of DBB AAA after flying Lilies over Calcutta at 5K feet and Betties over Kalgoorlie at 8K


(in reply to aaffins)
Post #: 84
RE: Catfished! A grudge match - Cheesteak (J) v. Aaffin... - 5/16/2020 12:58:43 PM   
aaffins

 

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4/18/42

In China we put up the AVG over Chungking and they do fairly well against sweeping Zeroes and Oscars - 2:1. Unfortunately none are still up to prey on the Betties. He hasn't really concentrated enough air power to shut down the airfield, but I have moved most CAF planes to Kunming aside from the fighters we flew in today.

I've been a little confused by his China strategy for awhile, but I'm pretty sure I get it now. Rather than try to clear all the pockets I have entrenched in good terrain and at Changsha out, he's going for Chungking first so he has fewer troops tied down by garrisons and, I presume most importantly for him, destroyed units won't respawn. The obvious issue here is it leaves him a hell of a supply line to protect. There are a couple ways he can trace major roads from Shanghai and Canton to his front line units. Right now a route from Shanghai is actually open so I move a unit in Southern China to correct that. We have some units in the woods near Kukong he's been trying to dislodge for a while. Now I get why that's the one place he's been fighting: they block the supply line from Canton.

In India he shifts his attention to Howrah and knocks out 10 planes on the ground. Still a good amount of flak and he loses nearly as many planes to AAA. Doubt we'll be seeing Vals used for AF attack any time soon again. I realized that I can put the C-47s that would normally be flying the hump to use by flying Burmese troops out of the small airfields along the border, many are damaged in this raid. Tomorrow we put up the fighters and see if we can catch him.

At Kalgoorlie we don't contest the skies but our AAA prevents serious damage to the AF. We also have tons of engineers, so it's difficult to close the AF without a huge concerted effort. He tries to take Esperance with paras but they fail. We just have a base force there.

4/19/42
At Howrah the fighters are very disappointing despite having 121 planes on CAP, most of which were newer model Hurricanes or P-40s. We've been getting at least 1:1 if not better with these groups pretty consistently, but not today. 77 Zeroes beat us up with a kill/death ratio of about 1:2. Perhaps even more frustratingly a couple follow on Oscar groups take down another ~15 planes for just 2 reported kills and we don't have any planes up for the bombers. Not exactly sure what's changed, perhaps he's brought in more experienced pilots, but obviously putting up big wings on CAP is going to be something I have to be cautious about.

At Kalgoorlie it's a similar story to recent days - we leave air defense to our massed flak. Once again we see about a 1:1 exchange of IJN bombers for planes destroyed on the ground. I'm fine with this for now. He does now have a 4E Liz group operating so they may force me to change my thinking, but our AAA knocked a few down today, so I don't think I need to just yet. He's now up to 8k feet.

He arrives at Bataan with two divisions and plenty of arty. Won't last terribly long.

Merauke falls.

(in reply to aaffins)
Post #: 85
RE: Catfished! A grudge match - Cheesteak (J) v. Aaffin... - 5/17/2020 4:50:31 PM   
aaffins

 

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4/20/42
The British 70th Div and a couple other units have pursued the IJA 90th Div and friends to the hex between Asansol and Ranchi. He launches what I think was a tank only attack and gets the 5th Tank Regt beaten up with 50 vehicles destroyed. These units have no supply route except through a jungle hex so I think we have them trapped. RAF bombers are hitting him but don't do a great deal of damage.

For some reason he tries to fly a large Betty raid on Kalgoorlie from 8,000 feet and loses at least half a dozen while causing minimal damage.

(in reply to aaffins)
Post #: 86
RE: Catfished! A grudge match - Cheesteak (J) v. Aaffin... - 5/18/2020 12:02:51 AM   
BBfanboy


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Does the British 70th get some AV in this scenario? In stock, it is loaded with construction engineers and other support elements but has virtually no Infantry and no AV. And you can't combine any units with it to make it a real Division either.

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(in reply to aaffins)
Post #: 87
RE: Catfished! A grudge match - Cheesteak (J) v. Aaffin... - 5/18/2020 3:44:03 PM   
aaffins

 

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Yes, in this scenario the division is one unit rather than having the independent brigades in stock with the divisional formation being a strong support unit. This gives it one of the most powerful TOEs in the game, see below (Note my AAR is a bit behind where we are in game, hence the unit being deployed to Calcutta rather than between Ranchi and Asansol).

Unfortunately the trade off is that it's not possible to change the command away from Eastern Army, which means the unit isn't available for redeployment to Ceylon or use in Burma if you adhere to typical HRs (we do). Bit of an aside, but I think this is why going for India is kind of folly in BTS; your strength is at sea and, to a lesser degree, in the air. Those can be used in the Indian theater, but they're less decisive than in the Pacific.




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(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 88
RE: Catfished! A grudge match - Cheesteak (J) v. Aaffin... - 5/18/2020 5:21:45 PM   
aaffins

 

Posts: 245
Joined: 3/7/2010
From: Richmond, VA
Status: offline
4/21/42
One thing I've noticed is that VAC does not seem to have established very good air search coverage over the Bay of Bengal, at least along the Indian coast. We test this by sending the old RN CLs Caledon and Ceres with a DD to bombard Diamond Harbour. We do a modest amount of damage but do establish the 28th Inf Div is located there. Not taking that place back any time soon. Also I believe that's a division he would have had to buy out from Korea.

Big sweeps over Kalgoorlie, Howrah and Chunking, but only small raids on Howrah. We shoot down 4 bombers and they do no damage. I'll be quite curious to hear VAC's take on the Allied AAA after we finish this game, if I were him I think I'd be pulling my hair out.

RAF bombers continue to harass the Japanese units between Ranchi and Asansol, but I'm reticent to attack with roughly equal AV, don't want the 70th Div to get beaten up and my Brit Inf replacements are basically non-existent.

The IJA does clear the jungle hex on the road to Kukong after about 2 months of trying. Only thing blocking the supply line from Canton to the rest of his forces now is Kukong which has forts but is unfortunately an open hex.

(in reply to aaffins)
Post #: 89
RE: Catfished! A grudge match - Cheesteak (J) v. Aaffin... - 5/18/2020 5:39:43 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 6831
Joined: 11/16/2015
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If you lose India and he keeps it garrisoned, just ignore it. Plan on attacking Port Blair then Pegu. Go on to Sabang then cut Malaya off from Thailand.

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(in reply to aaffins)
Post #: 90
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