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RE: Climate Zones - 1/7/2020 5:21:45 PM   
cathar1244

 

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Lobster,

The scenario editor interface doesn't indicate such. It shows one zone for a given range of hex scales, and then goes to three climate zones at a selected point in the hex scales ... but the number of hexes in the zone(s) is of course constant, per the selected map scale.

How it actually works in a running game, I don't know. But the scenario editor isn't depicting any way to have only two climate zones. It seems to be either a single zone or three zones.

For a map of 350 vertical hexes, there is a single zone for scales up to 2.5-km per hex. At 5 kilometers per hex, it goes to three climate zones. At 200 kilometers per hex, a single weather zone spans 23,400 kilometers. At 5 kilometers per hex, the a single zone spans 585 kilometers. Or so the editor indicates?

Cheers

< Message edited by cathar1244 -- 1/7/2020 5:26:36 PM >

(in reply to Lobster)
Post #: 31
RE: Climate Zones - 1/7/2020 6:12:33 PM   
76mm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cathar1244
But the scenario editor isn't depicting any way to have only two climate zones. It seems to be either a single zone or three zones.

That is a result of the interplay between the size of the map (700x700) and the map scales. Create a 20x20 map, for instance, and you'll see two weather zones at the 50 km scale (20 x 50 km = 1000 km); below that scale, only one zone (20 x 25 km = 500 km), and above it, three zones (20 x 100 km - 2000 km).

Weather zones seem to be tied to the size of the MAP in kilometers--not the size of the hex or the size of the weather zone itself.

< Message edited by 76mm -- 1/7/2020 6:14:56 PM >

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RE: Climate Zones - 1/7/2020 6:31:20 PM   
cathar1244

 

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quote:

Weather zones seem to be tied to the size of the MAP in kilometers--not the size of the hex or the size of the weather zone itself.


Thanks. That seems to be the key. And possibly hard to summarize in a manual.

A side effect of this is one could define a map with a lot of vertical depth but only use one third of that vertical depth, with the rest of the hexes marked unplayable. Should allow a single weather zone to be forced in the case of some map sizes. I wonder what odd behavior that might induce. 🐵

Cheers



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Post #: 33
RE: Climate Zones - 1/7/2020 7:10:34 PM   
Lobster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cathar1244

quote:

Weather zones seem to be tied to the size of the MAP in kilometers--not the size of the hex or the size of the weather zone itself.


Thanks. That seems to be the key. And possibly hard to summarize in a manual.

A side effect of this is one could define a map with a lot of vertical depth but only use one third of that vertical depth, with the rest of the hexes marked unplayable. Should allow a single weather zone to be forced in the case of some map sizes. I wonder what odd behavior that might induce. 🐵

Cheers





An equatorial climate will negate weather zones. Strangely enough, you can assign any weather to an equatorial zone including frozen.

< Message edited by Lobster -- 1/7/2020 7:11:59 PM >


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RE: Climate Zones - 1/7/2020 7:22:45 PM   
jmlima

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster

quote:

ORIGINAL: cathar1244

quote:

Weather zones seem to be tied to the size of the MAP in kilometers--not the size of the hex or the size of the weather zone itself.


Thanks. That seems to be the key. And possibly hard to summarize in a manual.

A side effect of this is one could define a map with a lot of vertical depth but only use one third of that vertical depth, with the rest of the hexes marked unplayable. Should allow a single weather zone to be forced in the case of some map sizes. I wonder what odd behavior that might induce. 🐵

Cheers





An equatorial climate will negate weather zones. Strangely enough, you can assign any weather to an equatorial zone including frozen.


That's climate change for you.

(in reply to Lobster)
Post #: 35
RE: Climate Zones - 1/7/2020 11:51:33 PM   
sPzAbt653


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That makes sense to me. Perhaps the Civilian Manual should read:

17.7.1. Weather Zones (Northern or Southern Climate Areas)
The size of a Weather Zone is determined by the size of the Map in Kilometers and the Map Scale.


P.S. the Civilian Manual is text only, no charts or tables.

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Post #: 36
RE: Climate Zones - 1/8/2020 1:49:59 AM   
76mm


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It might be more clear if we just fix the numbers in the existing version of 17.7.1, which talks about the number of Weather Zones--we just have to fix the numbers to read 0-899, 900-1499, and >=1500. We can add your sentence about the size of the Weather Zones for good measure.

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Post #: 37
RE: Climate Zones - 1/8/2020 10:16:05 AM   
sPzAbt653


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quote:

we just have to fix the numbers to read 0-899, 900-1499, and >=1500

But that's an example of one map scale and map size, right? So it would then read 'in this case' or 'for example'. What are the parameters to get those numbers?

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Post #: 38
RE: Climate Zones - 1/8/2020 11:31:18 AM   
76mm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653
But that's an example of one map scale and map size, right? So it would then read 'in this case' or 'for example'. What are the parameters to get those numbers?

No--whatever the hex scale and map size, those are the number of weather zones if the map ends up being within those size ranges (y-scale).

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Post #: 39
RE: Climate Zones - 1/8/2020 12:05:08 PM   
sPzAbt653


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I've posted screen shots of five separate configurations and none of them equal 900km per zone, so why am I confused?

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Post #: 40
RE: Climate Zones - 1/8/2020 2:23:28 PM   
Lobster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

I've posted screen shots of five separate configurations and none of them equal 900km per zone, so why am I confused?


Because it's kilometers not hexes.

200 tiles at 2.5 km per hex = 500 km = 1 weather zone.
200 tiles at 5 km per hex = 1000 km = 2 weather zones.
200 tiles at 10 km per hex = 2000 km = 3 weather zones.

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Post #: 41
RE: Climate Zones - 1/9/2020 12:47:02 AM   
76mm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653I've posted screen shots of five separate configurations and none of them equal 900km per zone, so why am I confused?

Because it is not 900 km per zone...the size of the map determines the number of zones, while the size of the zones is determined by the number of hexes and hex scale.

You've shown five different configurations:
2.5 km x 280 hexes = 700 km = 1 weather zone
10 km x 280 hexes = 2800 km = 3 weather zones
50 km x 280 hexes = 14000 km = 3 weather zones
10 km x 700 hexes = 7000 km = 3 weather zones
10 km x 342 hexes = 3420 km = 3 weather zones

The last two show different sizes of weather zones because the maps are different sizes (700 vs 342 hexes).

< Message edited by 76mm -- 1/9/2020 1:52:48 AM >

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Post #: 42
RE: Climate Zones - 1/9/2020 3:17:04 AM   
sPzAbt653


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Then for the Manual:

The size of the map determines the number of zones, while the size of the zones is determined by the number of hexes and hex scale.

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Post #: 43
RE: Climate Zones - 1/9/2020 12:44:51 PM   
Lobster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

Then for the Manual:

The size of the map in kilometers on the Y or North to South axis determines the number of zones, while the size of the zones is determined by the number of hexes and hex scale.



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Post #: 44
RE: Climate Zones - 1/9/2020 2:56:06 PM   
76mm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster
The size of the map in kilometers on the Y or North to South axis determines the number of zones, while the size of the zones is determined by the number of hexes and hex scale.

OK, but why not include the relevant kilometer benchmarks for the map size?
**************
The size of the map in kilometers on the Y (ie, North to South axis] determines the number of zones:
<900 km: 1 zone
>=900-1500 km: 2 zones
>1500: 3 zones

For any particular map with multiple weather zones, each weather zone will consist of roughly the same number of hexes.
****************

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Post #: 45
RE: Climate Zones - 1/9/2020 7:16:22 PM   
Lobster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster
The size of the map in kilometers on the Y or North to South axis determines the number of zones, while the size of the zones is determined by the number of hexes and hex scale.

OK, but why not include the relevant kilometer benchmarks for the map size?
**************
The size of the map in kilometers on the Y (ie, North to South axis] determines the number of zones:
<900 km: 1 zone
>=900-1500 km: 2 zones
>1500: 3 zones

For any particular map with multiple weather zones, each weather zone will consist of roughly the same number of hexes.
****************


Dunno. Seems to be lots of confusion for a simple concept. Might have to stick in some examples? The original manual has more botched or obfuscated and wrong explanations than I would expect. It's no wonder people can have a hard time learning the game.

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Post #: 46
RE: Climate Zones - 1/9/2020 8:57:14 PM   
sPzAbt653


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17.7.1. Weather Zones (Northern or Southern Climate Areas)
The size of the map in Kilometers on the Y axis [North to South] determines the number of Weather Zones:
<900 km: 1 zone
>=900-1500 km: 2 zones
>1500: 3 zones
The size of the Zones is determined by the number of Hexes and the Hex Scale.

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Post #: 47
RE: Climate Zones - 1/9/2020 9:15:43 PM   
rhinobones

 

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quote:

Might have to stick in some examples? The original manual has more botched or obfuscated and wrong explanations than I would expect. It's no wonder people can have a hard time learning the game.


Try this as an example.






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by rhinobones -- 1/9/2020 9:16:42 PM >


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Post #: 48
RE: Climate Zones - 1/9/2020 9:51:44 PM   
Lobster


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Looks ok. It would be nice to know exactly how the game divides the weather zones without going through the whole testing rigamarole. But then I never worry about where the zones break. Does it really matter? You can see the weather coming and it appears there is some randomness as to how far a zone reaches on a hex column by hex column basis. Some hex columns can be freezing a few hexes farther south than others. I guess knowing how many zones you will have is most important.

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Post #: 49
RE: Climate Zones - 2/3/2020 6:57:25 PM   
Lobster


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Per Mr. Trickey:

What the manual doesn't say is that the number of zones is determined by (map size + 1 + 300) / 600. In other words, 901 km will give you two zones 1501 will give you three.


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