Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

Ship movement into battle

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> Tech Support >> Ship movement into battle Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Ship movement into battle - 1/3/2020 4:53:06 PM   
John B.


Posts: 3721
Joined: 9/25/2011
From: Virginia
Status: offline
Hello, Scott and I are engaged in a long game that is nearing the end of 1944. There was a large air sea battle just south of Kyushu in which my (IJN) fleet carrier squadron only moved three hexes out of Tokyo when it's speed was 9/4, it had not used any ops points prior to moving and it had a good admiral in charge (Yamaguchi aggression 61). I can't figure out why it only moved 1/3 of it's movement when it was set to "absolute." This dramatically changed the complexion of the battle since the whole thing was designed to get those carriers into action.

1. This first picture shows where the CVs wound up (three hexes from where they started) and where they were supposed to go.

2. The second picture, next post, shows the TF when I saved the turn at the start of the day No one refueled, no ops points had been used.

3. The final picture, post after the next one, shows the fleet at the end of day. Again, no one refueled and I don't see any reason why it would have only moved three hexes and thus missed out on the entire battle. I have never seen this before. I've seen ships move 1-2 hexes more or less than you think, but never 6 hexes less.




Attachment (1)
Post #: 1
RE: Ship movement into battle - 1/3/2020 4:53:41 PM   
John B.


Posts: 3721
Joined: 9/25/2011
From: Virginia
Status: offline
TF at the start of the day.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to John B.)
Post #: 2
RE: Ship movement into battle - 1/3/2020 4:54:52 PM   
John B.


Posts: 3721
Joined: 9/25/2011
From: Virginia
Status: offline
fleet at the end of the day.

Did I miss something obvious and make a major mistake? Is this a glitch in the program? Any input would be appreciated!




Attachment (1)

(in reply to John B.)
Post #: 3
RE: Ship movement into battle - 1/3/2020 5:07:54 PM   
John B.


Posts: 3721
Joined: 9/25/2011
From: Virginia
Status: offline
The only weird thing that I see is when I click on the TF in question it very briefly highlights a two hex green outline patrol zone and then reverts to the yellow outline TF path indicator. It does that on the other surface TF that also failed to make it to the battle. It does not have that brief green outline patrol zone for any other TF I hover over. I wonder if there is some bug that halted these TFs as they sailed out.

I can't take a picture of the effect that I see as it only shows up temporarily.

(in reply to John B.)
Post #: 4
RE: Ship movement into battle - 1/3/2020 5:09:46 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14461
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline
Why is this posted in the Tech Support forum?

_____________________________

Currently fighting for the Emperor against AW1Steve. As of 10/20 it is 3/45.

(in reply to John B.)
Post #: 5
RE: Ship movement into battle - 1/3/2020 5:37:47 PM   
btd64


Posts: 7341
Joined: 1/23/2010
From: Mass. USA. now in OHIO
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

Why is this posted in the Tech Support forum?


You beat me to the punch lizard ....GP

_____________________________

Intel i7 4.3GHz 10th Gen,16GB Ram,Nvidia GeForce MX330

AKA General Patton

WPO,WITP,WITPAE-Mod Designer/Tester
DWU-Beta Tester
TOAW4-Alpha/Beta Tester

I don't like paying for the same real estate twice..Gen. George S. Patton

(in reply to geofflambert)
Post #: 6
RE: Ship movement into battle - 1/3/2020 5:58:52 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 15461
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
I answered in the other Section: "Retirement Allowed" is the technical flaw.

"The Computer Operator Bug strikes again!"

< Message edited by BBfanboy -- 1/3/2020 5:59:36 PM >


_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to John B.)
Post #: 7
RE: Ship movement into battle - 1/3/2020 8:51:50 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14461
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

I answered in the other Section: "Retirement Allowed" is the technical flaw.

"The Computer Operator Bug strikes again!"


That means Yamaguchi thought John B. was nuts?

_____________________________

Currently fighting for the Emperor against AW1Steve. As of 10/20 it is 3/45.

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 8
RE: Ship movement into battle - 1/3/2020 9:39:48 PM   
John B.


Posts: 3721
Joined: 9/25/2011
From: Virginia
Status: offline
Geo & btd, why would I not post a suspected bug in the tech support forum? Isn't this for bug reports? You're going to have to explain that one to me.

In any event, BBFanboy, it is unlikely that it was "retirement allowed." Here is the original TF track and you'll see the TF was set to go 11 hexes. Based on where it wound up, if it went to it's target and back it went 19 hexes when set at mission speed, no ships suffered any damage, and they burned almost no fuel.

As I noted, when I hover over the TF is briefly marks itself as having a patrol zone and then goes to the original yellow outline TF path to its target hex. That's what makes me suspect that there is some sort of bug. But, Geo & btd, if you think this belongs in another forum just tell me where it should go and I'll be happy to repost it there.






Attachment (1)

(in reply to geofflambert)
Post #: 9
RE: Ship movement into battle - 1/3/2020 9:57:02 PM   
John B.


Posts: 3721
Joined: 9/25/2011
From: Virginia
Status: offline
And here is the TF path for the second day. As you can see, it's still heading to the target hex which would not make sense at all if it had already gone there and was heading back to port. In that case, it would have a TF path going back to Tokyo.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to John B.)
Post #: 10
RE: Ship movement into battle - 1/3/2020 10:40:26 PM   
BillBrown


Posts: 2335
Joined: 6/15/2002
Status: offline
Can you post a picture of the TFs routing screen for the first day?

And BTW, at mission speed it would not have moved the 11 hexes you wanted. I would have moved 8 or 9 hexes.

< Message edited by BillBrown -- 1/3/2020 10:41:39 PM >

(in reply to John B.)
Post #: 11
RE: Ship movement into battle - 1/3/2020 11:05:13 PM   
John B.


Posts: 3721
Joined: 9/25/2011
From: Virginia
Status: offline
Hi Bill, Post No. 8 is the first day TF routing screen. Post No. 9 is the second day TF routing screen which shows that it is still on the way to it's target hex.

I deliberately set the TF goal a couple of hexes past it's speed so that it would not turn back. I wanted it just south of Shikoku which, FYI, is where the CVE TF which also left from Tokyo wound up.

(in reply to BillBrown)
Post #: 12
RE: Ship movement into battle - 1/3/2020 11:09:03 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14461
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline
There are no bugs. Support ended over 3 years ago. This is not a bug with the game. Might be a cockroach though. Really, everything you describe is debatable and opinions are what you should be asking for and in the main forum. A lot of players who might contribute may never come to this forum to read posts like this, so they're no help to you here.

But seriously, there used to be some bugs, this game has been more thoroughly vetted than the Apollo moon shots. There aren't any bugs left. You may not understand what happened and why, but don't suggest it's a bug or a glitch when you present it. Everyone including me learns things everyday with this game through dialog with others. This Tech Forum is for 'you can't get your computer to work' kind of problems. It's borderline to even bring up a 'I can't get Tracker to work' here - a non proprietary app.

_____________________________

Currently fighting for the Emperor against AW1Steve. As of 10/20 it is 3/45.

(in reply to BillBrown)
Post #: 13
RE: Ship movement into battle - 1/3/2020 11:10:58 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14461
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline
There's no one here to report any bugs to. No software engineering work is being done on this anymore. You're just talking to other players and there's more of them in the main forum.

_____________________________

Currently fighting for the Emperor against AW1Steve. As of 10/20 it is 3/45.

(in reply to geofflambert)
Post #: 14
RE: Ship movement into battle - 1/3/2020 11:46:32 PM   
John B.


Posts: 3721
Joined: 9/25/2011
From: Virginia
Status: offline
Given that the flight computer crashed as Neil Armstrong was landing the Lunar Module on the surface of the moon I"m not sure that the moon shots are the best example of why there can be no bugs in this game. :)

So far the only non-bug theory I've heard would have required the TF to accelerate to more than its maximum speed, use very little fuel, suffer no systems damage, go to its destination hex and return and then be scheduled to still go to its destination hex. That plus the odd patrol zone outline that pops up briefly when I click on the TF sure sounds like a bug to me.

I hope this is not read as being written in a snarky tone of voice. I appreciate your advice on where to get better input. I'll wait today to see if anything good comes up here and, if not, I'll move it.


(in reply to geofflambert)
Post #: 15
RE: Ship movement into battle - 1/3/2020 11:57:16 PM   
BillBrown


Posts: 2335
Joined: 6/15/2002
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: John B.

Hi Bill, Post No. 8 is the first day TF routing screen. Post No. 9 is the second day TF routing screen which shows that it is still on the way to it's target hex.

I deliberately set the TF goal a couple of hexes past it's speed so that it would not turn back. I wanted it just south of Shikoku which, FYI, is where the CVE TF which also left from Tokyo wound up.


No they are not there. I need to see the screen shot after you press the "Set TF Routing" button.

(in reply to John B.)
Post #: 16
RE: Ship movement into battle - 1/4/2020 12:05:52 AM   
Zorch

 

Posts: 7976
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: John B.

Given that the flight computer crashed as Neil Armstrong was landing the Lunar Module on the surface of the moon I"m not sure that the moon shots are the best example of why there can be no bugs in this game. :)

So far the only non-bug theory I've heard would have required the TF to accelerate to more than its maximum speed, use very little fuel, suffer no systems damage, go to its destination hex and return and then be scheduled to still go to its destination hex. That plus the odd patrol zone outline that pops up briefly when I click on the TF sure sounds like a bug to me.

I hope this is not read as being written in a snarky tone of voice. I appreciate your advice on where to get better input. I'll wait today to see if anything good comes up here and, if not, I'll move it.


The Apollo 11 'flight computer' did not crash; it issued a message that it had more tasks to do than time to do them. It then went back to the top of its task list and kept going. Which was fine because the high priority tasks got done. It was not a bug.
The overload was because the astronauts gave it too much to do. This was realized (by Houston) before the Eagle blasted off from the moon.

(in reply to John B.)
Post #: 17
RE: Ship movement into battle - 1/4/2020 1:09:11 AM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14461
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline
I'll grant there was a bug, somebody forgot to apply general relativity to the calculations, but as Neil Armstrong knew, it was too late to fix.

_____________________________

Currently fighting for the Emperor against AW1Steve. As of 10/20 it is 3/45.

(in reply to Zorch)
Post #: 18
RE: Ship movement into battle - 1/4/2020 1:56:30 AM   
John B.


Posts: 3721
Joined: 9/25/2011
From: Virginia
Status: offline
I'm not trying to disrespect the Apollo program. :)

Bill, is the the screen shot you want?

FYI, Scott and I reran the turn. The combat results were vastly different but the CV TFs still stayed in the same place three hexes from Tokyo.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to geofflambert)
Post #: 19
RE: Ship movement into battle - 1/4/2020 3:04:01 AM   
BillBrown


Posts: 2335
Joined: 6/15/2002
Status: offline
In this picture TF 218 is following the CV TF. What is TF 218, where is it, where was it at the start of this?
A Tf that is being followed may slow down to allow the following TF to catch up.

(in reply to John B.)
Post #: 20
RE: Ship movement into battle - 1/4/2020 4:59:17 AM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 15461
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BillBrown

In this picture TF 218 is following the CV TF. What is TF 218, where is it, where was it at the start of this?
A Tf that is being followed may slow down to allow the following TF to catch up.

In the AAR he shows that three CV TFs left Tokyo Bay together. So the second TF followed the first but I don't know where the third one is or what it's instructions were. If it happened that the third one was to follow the first or second and the first one was to follow the third or second, the circular follow orders would confuse the AI routing for sure.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to BillBrown)
Post #: 21
RE: Ship movement into battle - 1/4/2020 6:57:30 AM   
Kursk1943


Posts: 362
Joined: 3/15/2014
From: Bavaria in Southern Germany
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: John B.

TF at the start of the day.





Don't know if this is of any influence: the MaxReact is set to zero.
I always set it to six when I intend a most aggressive stance of the TF. Works especially well with Surface and ASW-TFs.

_____________________________

Serenity and humility and kindness and benevolence

(in reply to John B.)
Post #: 22
RE: Ship movement into battle - 1/4/2020 8:35:19 AM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 8044
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: online
I think the reason is that Yamaguchi failed his aggressiveness roll and decided that caution is needed. React range 0 might have influenced it too. Maybe admiral saw that destination would have put him into disadvantage...

Hyper-aggressive commander like Halsey (Agg 90) are bit annoying especially when react range is 6. They tend to attack anything even when it is not beneficial.

< Message edited by Sardaukar -- 1/4/2020 8:38:27 AM >


_____________________________

"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von Bülov, 1870-


(in reply to Kursk1943)
Post #: 23
RE: Ship movement into battle - 1/4/2020 8:57:57 AM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6250
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline
This is WAD, it is not a bug.

TF 217 moves only 3 hexes from Tokyo because it has to refuel.  The two CLAAs are below the endurance threshold which triggers their refuelling.

The moral of the story is never leave port with so little fuel in the bunkers as it will force refuelling each turn.

Alfred

(in reply to Sardaukar)
Post #: 24
RE: Ship movement into battle - 1/4/2020 12:06:17 PM   
John B.


Posts: 3721
Joined: 9/25/2011
From: Virginia
Status: offline
Now that's interesting. It was set for a round trip of 22 hexes and the TF stopped after three hexes but did not refuel from the other ships in the TF. I've learned the hard way that ships will refuel at sea even if you have a don't refuel order placed on them but here that did not happen.

Regarding endurance, I went back in and put one of the two CLAA's into a TF with a round trip to Iwo (34 hexes or 12 hexes more than it was expected to cover under its existing orders) and it still shows up green in its endurance. I've seen orange for "danger low fuel" and red for "expect to die adrift at sea" but I've never seen a green endurance ship refuse to move. I've even sent out merchants in the orange zone and they still sail their full complement of hexes. Is there a different calculus at work if you're moving towards an enemy ship?





Attachment (1)

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 25
RE: Ship movement into battle - 1/4/2020 12:12:29 PM   
John B.


Posts: 3721
Joined: 9/25/2011
From: Virginia
Status: offline
FYI, Scott and I reran the turn and the combat was pretty different. But the two CV TFs again stopped after three hexes. @Sardaukar, maybe Yamaguchi is trying to tell me from beyond the grave that it's a really really stupid move. :)

@BBFanboy, here is the third CV TF. It was the smaller CVs and it moved normally and participated in the combat.

@ Kursk That's an interesting point. I deliberately set the reaction to zero so they did not do the carrier jump and go too far.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to John B.)
Post #: 26
RE: Ship movement into battle - 1/4/2020 12:13:33 PM   
John B.


Posts: 3721
Joined: 9/25/2011
From: Virginia
Status: offline
BTW, I really appreciate everyone's thoughts on this issue!

(in reply to John B.)
Post #: 27
RE: Ship movement into battle - 1/4/2020 12:26:50 PM   
John B.


Posts: 3721
Joined: 9/25/2011
From: Virginia
Status: offline
Ah ha! I got a picture of the issue I was talking about. Here you can see that I've put the cursor over the CV TF in question. When I click on the TF the following sequence happens:

1. As you can see in this first picture, when I click on the TF it briefly shows a green patrol zone for the TF.

Then. . .




Attachment (1)

(in reply to John B.)
Post #: 28
RE: Ship movement into battle - 1/4/2020 12:27:30 PM   
John B.


Posts: 3721
Joined: 9/25/2011
From: Virginia
Status: offline
2. The normal TF info. screen appears.

Then . . .




Attachment (1)

(in reply to John B.)
Post #: 29
RE: Ship movement into battle - 1/4/2020 12:30:27 PM   
John B.


Posts: 3721
Joined: 9/25/2011
From: Virginia
Status: offline
When I exit the TF info. screen it shows that the TF has the normal yellow TF path highlighted with no hint of the green patrol zone.

Any other TF I click either shows a yellow TF path or a green patrol zone, they do not show both. The only TFs that show both are the two CV TFS I've been discussing and a surface TF with the Hiei that also only went a few hexes and then stopped.






Attachment (1)

(in reply to John B.)
Post #: 30
Page:   [1] 2   next >   >>
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> Tech Support >> Ship movement into battle Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.191