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RE: CV packing - 12/28/2019 4:07:39 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

This from the Wiki on the Battle of Santa Cruz. This is just Oct. of '42.

Between 11:40 and 14:00, the two undamaged Japanese carriers, Zuikaku and Jun'yô, recovered the few aircraft that returned from the morning strikes on Hornet and Enterprise and prepared follow-up strikes. It was now that the devastating losses sustained during these attacks became apparent. Lt. Cmdr. Okumiya Masatake, Jun'yô's air staff officer, described the return of the carrier's first strike groups:

We searched the sky with apprehension. There were only a few planes in the air in comparison with the numbers launched several hours before... The planes lurched and staggered onto the deck, every single fighter and bomber bullet holed ... As the pilots climbed wearily from their cramped cockpits, they told of unbelievable opposition, of skies choked with antiaircraft shell bursts and tracers.

Only one of Jun'yô's bomber leaders returned from the first strike, and upon landing he appeared "so shaken that at times he could not speak coherently".

Ah, the debut of BB South Dakota! The TF admiral had to query if she was on fire when she turned on her AA! The US CVs had pretty good AA upgrades then too.

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Post #: 31
RE: CV packing - 12/29/2019 2:37:55 AM   
Ian R

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R

On the other hand, if the KB comes by and puts strikes in contact, all your carriers are at risk in one TF. Keeping them in separate TFs can pay dividends, as one might escape attack.

According to Alfred (IIRC), an air strike can attack ships in all the TFs in a hex, so it makes no real difference to split your CVs into various TFs and keep them in the same hex. In a larger TF you might get better AAA support (depending on AAA range and enemy altitude during approach and departure.)


"Can attack" does not = "will attack"

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Ian R

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Post #: 32
RE: CV packing - 12/30/2019 5:10:04 PM   
Macclan5


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quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

First, Allied players, do not put the first model of Corsairs on one of your carriers. They are not carrier capable and will turn your carrier into a floating parking lot.

....

my ideal is: CV CV CVL CA CA CL DD DD DD DD DD DD



Very good advice Mr Gorn !

For 1st time players - more generally - examine the details of all squadrons carefully. The Planes that are "Carrier Capable" are clearly indicated in the screen details. If you have read your history and wondered how they launched P47 from Escort carriers (i.e. Battle of Okinawa) - that was to launch ONLY and land at an air strip - not land aboard ship again.

--

My ideal is about the same and is based on the post war musings of Admiral Raymond Spruance.

You can search the internet for many references.

3 X CV - 1 X CVL - 1 X CA - 1 X CLAA - 1 X CL and a minimum of 8 destroyers. Usually the ones with the best AA / ASW values.

You can operate such Task Forces - 2 / 3 / 4 / more latter within a single hex or all in nearby hexes proving mutual support.

Some experienced players here intermingle the fast battleships; I actually prefer to group the Battleships / CA / CL / Multiple DD "ahead or leading" of the Carrier Task Forces with strong CAP set up (entire Squadrons on CAP 100% with Range 1 including the BB Task Force)i.e. mimic-ing the deployment of the Battle of the Philippine Sea / Great Mariana's Turkey shoot. It is my "impression" they are sighted and divert a large number of attacks from the CV.

--

However there are plenty of intelligent opinions about creating "Death Star" Carrier TFs / Smaller / Larger.

Above all experiment and learn. The Learning curve is not half as large as it is fun !

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Post #: 33
RE: CV packing - 12/30/2019 6:46:22 PM   
BBfanboy


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The circumstances in the game may differ from the real life situation. For example, in RL the Japanese had lost most of their best pilots already and the rookies they had may have been too keen to hit battleships when orders should have been to go after carriers or loaded transports. In the game, the IJ player usually has a solid cadre of experienced pilots and lots of well-trained rookies by mid-1943. Better pilots tend to find the carriers.

Also IRL, the Japanese did not activate the kamikazes until Leyte Gulf in late October, 1944, but in game they can be activated after January 1, 1944. That would affect the decisions about air group makeup on the carriers.

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Post #: 34
RE: CV packing - 12/31/2019 6:21:30 AM   
oaltinyay


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quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

Another thing. Turn replacements off on all squadrons aboard. I once had something bad happen. The Americans have the option of having replacement squadrons at nearby land bases, that will send replacement planes with pilots to a carrier at sea. The Japanese can't do that. So I was unaware of that and it happened to me. Somehow a training squadron I had nearby was flagged to be a replacement squadron and sent unwanted planes with untrained crews in the middle of a fight. ........


This is called the fortunes of war ?

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Post #: 35
RE: CV packing - 12/31/2019 6:22:45 AM   
oaltinyay


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Do we know there is actually an influx of new players into this time vampire of a game ?

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Post #: 36
RE: CV packing - 12/31/2019 7:11:18 AM   
geofflambert


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IRL the Allies had not achieved any of the requirements proscribed by the game for Kamikaze activation by the Battle of Leyte Gulf. To do so in the game requires an Allied base within 15 hexes by sea of Saigon, Takao or Tokyo. So, in the game you can create Kamikazes once the Allies have a base in the Gulf of Siam, Central Luzon, Haha-Jima or for the Soviets to have activated. Chinese capture of a port from Shanghai to the West would do. None of this was true by or immediately following Leyte Gulf. So, in order for activation to occur in January of '44 the Allied player would need to be nearly a year ahead of schedule than RL was.

< Message edited by geofflambert -- 12/31/2019 7:12:39 AM >


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Post #: 37
RE: CV packing - 12/31/2019 1:19:21 PM   
Nomad

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

IRL the Allies had not achieved any of the requirements proscribed by the game for Kamikaze activation by the Battle of Leyte Gulf. To do so in the game requires an Allied base within 15 hexes by sea of Saigon, Takao or Tokyo. So, in the game you can create Kamikazes once the Allies have a base in the Gulf of Siam, Central Luzon, Haha-Jima or for the Soviets to have activated. Chinese capture of a port from Shanghai to the West would do. None of this was true by or immediately following Leyte Gulf. So, in order for activation to occur in January of '44 the Allied player would need to be nearly a year ahead of schedule than RL was.

It has been changed to 20 hexes.


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Post #: 38
RE: CV packing - 12/31/2019 2:42:04 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: oaltinyay

Do we know there is actually an influx of new players into this time vampire of a game ?

Just check out the surge of threads from new players questioning how to install the game and how to do some basic things like loading troops.

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Post #: 39
RE: CV packing - 12/31/2019 2:42:40 PM   
geofflambert


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That's better. That would include northern Leyte and Samar.

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Post #: 40
RE: CV packing - 12/31/2019 2:55:16 PM   
Trugrit


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: oaltinyay

Do we know there is actually an influx of new players into this time vampire of a game ?

Just check out the surge of threads from new players questioning how to install the game and how to do some basic things like loading troops.


True, and the sale is still going on. There may be more to come.

If is was not for you and Kull I don’t think the forum could keep up with all the questions.

Many of those new players would go down in flames like a Betty bomber.

Thanks to you both for your support.


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Post #: 41
RE: CV packing - 12/31/2019 4:39:54 PM   
geofflambert


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There was recently (while the sale was on) an article in the WP about women gamers getting bullied. I made a suggestion, because that would never happen here. Missing the Gräffin.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/sports/toxic-online-culture-women-esports/?utm_campaign=post_most&utm_medium=Email&utm_source=Newsletter&wpisrc=nl_most&wpmm=1




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Currently fighting for the Emperor against AW1Steve. As of 10/20 it is 3/45.

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Post #: 42
RE: CV packing - 12/31/2019 7:59:23 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

There was recently (while the sale was on) an article in the WP about women gamers getting bullied. I made a suggestion, because that would never happen here. Missing the Gräffin.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/sports/toxic-online-culture-women-esports/?utm_campaign=post_most&utm_medium=Email&utm_source=Newsletter&wpisrc=nl_most&wpmm=1




We do use a lot of innuendo that some could take offence to if they are sensitive on the topic. And a little rough on political correctness at times, but nothing meant to cause anyone pain. I expect the presence of a few non-male players would cause a certain amount of restraint on our tangential discussion, but there is always Canoerebel's tree seminars ...

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Post #: 43
RE: CV packing - 1/2/2020 5:36:05 PM   
fcooke

 

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Nobody should feel unwelcome....unless they earn it. either here or in the rest of their lives. But if you earn it - wear it.

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Post #: 44
RE: CV packing - 1/7/2020 1:30:09 PM   
DanielAClark

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: oaltinyay

Do we know there is actually an influx of new players into this time vampire of a game ?


I'm a new player as of Christmas...

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Post #: 45
RE: CV packing - 1/7/2020 2:44:56 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DanielAClark


quote:

ORIGINAL: oaltinyay

Do we know there is actually an influx of new players into this time vampire of a game ?


I'm a new player as of Christmas...


Welcome aboard! Let us know howgoezit!

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Post #: 46
RE: CV packing - 1/7/2020 3:53:26 PM   
dr.hal


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New or old player, we should all be aware that this medium is open to misinterpretation. So we should all be careful as to how we type out our inputs so that they offend no one (if that is even possible!). It takes a long time for someone to build up confidence that his or her opinion or input is relevant and valued, it takes only one stupid bit of feedback to undo that delicate balance. I remember when I first entered this forum and looked at the number of posts some of you had. I thought wow these guys are serious, how can I even comment on what they're doing let alone comment constructively. MOST of you have welcomed my input over the years, which I appreciate. We all have to continue that welcome to new members as well. Remember, were were all "nobs" once..... Hal

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Post #: 47
RE: CV packing - 1/7/2020 5:56:44 PM   
rockmedic109

 

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"I remember when I first entered this forum and looked at the number of posts some of you had. I thought wow these guys are serious, how can I even comment on what they're doing let alone comment constructively."

I still think this.

I'm still a noob.

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Post #: 48
RE: CV packing - 1/7/2020 6:26:52 PM   
DanielAClark

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: DanielAClark


quote:

ORIGINAL: oaltinyay

Do we know there is actually an influx of new players into this time vampire of a game ?


I'm a new player as of Christmas...


Welcome aboard! Let us know howgoezit!


Coral Sea, first playthrough...decisive Allied victory...

I got lucky though. Smashed Hosho and the invasion convoy, and then lost Astoria in a futile attempt to get a night action against the fleeing enemy ships.

Hiryu and Soryu showed up too late to save the invasion, but caught my surface combat force AND the two USN carriers within the Rabaul land based air range...

Let's just say I was very lucky...my surface force got mauled (Astoria sunk, two other cruisers heavily damaged), but it divided the attacks away from my vulnerable carriers. Yorktown took a small bomb hit, Lexington took a torpedo hit...but both remained operational.

We reported a couple of bomb hits on the big IJN CVs but no real results (I'm not sure we really hit them).

Without an invasion task force though, the IJN retreated.

Now...onto to playing the Japanese side...

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Post #: 49
RE: CV packing - 1/7/2020 6:58:04 PM   
RangerJoe


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Something to remember for later games, once the invasion is stopped, there is no reason to sail in harm's way since that is when you tend to lose more stuff unnecessarily. The aircraft are depleted, the air crews are tired, sorties are used up, and the ships ammo supply is usually lowered.

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Post #: 50
RE: CV packing - 1/8/2020 1:35:01 AM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rockmedic109

"I remember when I first entered this forum and looked at the number of posts some of you had. I thought wow these guys are serious, how can I even comment on what they're doing let alone comment constructively."

I still think this.

I'm still a noob.

Maybe, but a proud Elite Guard Noob!




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No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

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