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RE: Distant Worlds 2 Sneak Peek #1 – Ship Design

 
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RE: Distant Worlds 2 Sneak Peek #1 – Ship Design - 8/11/2020 4:10:09 PM   
Theotenai

 

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I wish I didn't know a second one was planned... Waiting can be frustrating ! :)

(in reply to ElanaAhova_slith)
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RE: Distant Worlds 2 Sneak Peek #1 – Ship Design - 10/29/2020 6:22:18 PM   
diji

 

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I think the new UI alone has got a day one buy from me.

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RE: Distant Worlds 2 Sneak Peek #1 – Ship Design - 12/9/2020 3:16:28 PM   
popgea

 

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Sounds like DW2 enters beta in January. Where can I sign up?

wont let me post a link but its on the Wargamer site.

(in reply to diji)
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RE: Distant Worlds 2 Sneak Peek #1 – Ship Design - 12/10/2020 8:22:35 PM   
Amalek28

 

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Will there be a scalable UI in DW2? DW 1 is not playable with a 3440 X 1440 monitor.

(in reply to ElanaAhova_slith)
Post #: 34
RE: Distant Worlds 2 Sneak Peek #1 – Ship Design - 12/12/2020 1:32:00 PM   
popgea

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Amalek28

Will there be a scalable UI in DW2? DW 1 is not playable with a 3440 X 1440 monitor.


Read the 4k thread , i can play on my 3840x1600 by controlling the scaling (It won't let me post links or I would link to it). Also make use of the scaling buttons on the overlays on the map.

To answer your question yes I think it will.

< Message edited by popgea -- 12/12/2020 1:36:41 PM >

(in reply to Amalek28)
Post #: 35
RE: Distant Worlds 2 Sneak Peek #1 – Ship Design - 12/17/2020 8:16:57 PM   
The Gnome


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While we're on the subject of UI/scaling: please, please, please use a good, solid readable font. I love buying games from smaller dev shops and publishers, but they usually have the least friendly fonts for the eyes. Typeface is so often overlooked, and can solve a lot of issues on the UI side.


(in reply to popgea)
Post #: 36
RE: Distant Worlds 2 Sneak Peek #1 – Ship Design - 12/19/2020 1:00:41 AM   
Geckomeister

 

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Beta access please

_____________________________


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RE: Distant Worlds 2 Sneak Peek #1 – Ship Design - 12/21/2020 6:32:28 PM   
rxnnxs

 

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I have three wishes for the game when it is done,

1. A Font that is scalable and readable
2. Escape closes the open window(s) and does not open the options Menue (Behavior switchable).
3. An additional Zooming OUT option: Zoom in AND out from cursor.

Thank you. For the rest, I am sure everything will be addressed and just as awesome as in the first DW.

P.S.: Thank you very much for the Video (Zoom in and out) and the Pictures. This is really the direction I hoped it would head to.
Looks very promising!

< Message edited by rxnnxs -- 12/21/2020 6:34:34 PM >

(in reply to Geckomeister)
Post #: 38
RE: Distant Worlds 2 Sneak Peek #1 – Ship Design - 1/4/2021 2:26:38 PM   
Whiskiz

 

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Am conflicted about component slots and associated ship restrictions.

As long as it helps the AI build smart, challenging loadouts then i'm all for it and if it really is hard to reach the limits unless wanting to go overboard, then it could actually be an amazing concept.

If it works as advertised.

It also sounds awesome that there's variations on the same hulls to unlock - instead of just unlocking the cruiser hull, destroyer hull, etc.

For further guidance on how to make ship variation, general ship building and rock/paper/scissor equipment and combat more amazing - look to Eve Online. (Especially for other systems like the sensor and other electronic warfare and fleet support.)

EDIT: Also I hope the AI is not only smart and challenging but more dynamic between playthroughs. It'd be great if for example you weren't 43min into a game looking at your watch and going "ok the Mortalen have been doing good they should be ready to unlock ___ hull in another couple minutes and have ___ firepower and defences." but also not going the other end of the spectrum and being completely random each playthrough. Some sort of identity of course but with room for variety.

So i mean not just building their unique race specific stuff but different designs and loadouts with that stuff. Would cool if each Race had a personality (with a pre-disposition to certain parameters) that would slightly modify how they act diplomatically, militarily, ship design...arily.

Maybe one playthrough an aggressive race has a higher Cunning personality stat and so adds ships to their fleet specializing in sensors/electronic warfare, or just places a little more priority on sensors in general. Little likelier to betray any diplomatic pacts and turn pirates against nations it's targeting etc.

Another playthrough it has a higher Temper, so prioritizes more firepower in more of the slots than what you might normally see. Negative diplomatic actions have a bigger effect.

A higher Intellect personality might see more variation and interesting meta combos in its fleet loadout, prioritizes tech/research a little more, sees the wisdom and virtues in diplomatic actions more by making sure it has allies and is harder to bargain with (will want a little more for tech trade, etc.)


< Message edited by Whiskiz -- 1/4/2021 2:58:21 PM >

(in reply to ElanaAhova_slith)
Post #: 39
RE: Distant Worlds 2 Sneak Peek #1 – Ship Design - 1/4/2021 6:16:05 PM   
Galaxy227

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiskiz

EDIT: Also I hope the AI is not only smart and challenging but more dynamic between playthroughs. It'd be great if for example you weren't 43min into a game looking at your watch and going "ok the Mortalen have been doing good they should be ready to unlock ___ hull in another couple minutes and have ___ firepower and defences." but also not going the other end of the spectrum and being completely random each playthrough. Some sort of identity of course but with room for variety.



This is arguably the hardest part about designing artificial intelligence in 4X/strategy games, second only to the actual competency of the AI itself. Although more variation between DW games would be interesting, I'd first argue it's an insurmountable task for the size and scope of a series as niche as Distant Worlds, and second argue the sprinkles of variation (races, governments, pirates, etc.) all already work to keep variety within the playing experience fresh, while simultaneously preventing the simulation from being too unpredictable (for instance, imagine if "X" race preferred shields in one game, and then firepower in the next... such unpredictability!).

There is already enough variation in Distant Worlds. Could there be more? Sure. Will there be more in Distant Worlds 2? Perhaps. But certainly not in the way you're suggesting, Whiskiz. It would eat up far too much development time for far too little pay-off. I'd much prefer a more streamlined, predictable AI—competent in its ability to challenge the player—rather than one with oodles of unpredictability at the expense of its own intelligence. After all, its artificial intelligence, not artificial RNG.


< Message edited by Galaxy227 -- 1/4/2021 6:28:36 PM >

(in reply to Whiskiz)
Post #: 40
RE: Distant Worlds 2 Sneak Peek #1 – Ship Design - 1/5/2021 4:33:47 AM   
Whiskiz

 

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Interesting take.

quote:

I'd much prefer a more streamlined, predictable AI—competent in its ability to challenge the player—rather than one with oodles of unpredictability at the expense of its own intelligence. After all, its artificial intelligence, not artificial RNG.


Oodles of unpredictability and RNG is a little exaggerated for what i was proposing. I disagree that it's not possible and would be at the detriment of the AI - even feeling like more would prefer not playing against the exact same enemy doing the exact same thing with the exact same research and fleet comps etc, every, single, game. Not completely different either, but not the exact same. Does it really have to be one extreme or the other? Seems a little shortsighted.

What the rest of the game does or doesn't have has nothing to do with ship design, further, saying a mechanic shouldn't be expanded on because other mechanics are isn't really a good basis for a good argument.

Lastly, what i'm suggesting (not to the extremes that you were) would be easily doable and not at the detriment of the AI, while substantially increasing replayability. For example How hard would it be to:

-Have a race that say rolled the Cunning personality trait out of its pool of secondary traits, or say rolled a 4 Cunning (out of 10 with that races specific parameters being 2 - 5) to have a combined sensor score in its fleet for (ease of) example 400 out of 1000. Next game maybe it's a low roll of 2 and so only 200 out of 1000 combined fleet sensor score and so is a little more blind.

They can achieve this variance easily, by adding a dedicated sensor support ship or two when rolling a higher personality score, or having a secondary regular ship design with an extra sensor or 2 and sprinkling those ships into the fleet (I feel like component slots would actually be great for this kind of thing.)

-Having a usually somewhat average tempered race roll the Temper trait or a higher Temper score, that might see it have instead of usually around 400 fleet firepower score around a certain time, have 600 instead. Again adding extra dedicated ships with alot more firepower, each ship with a bit more each, or a combination of the two.

-Having a race that rolls either Intellect or a high intellect score that usually builds for close range, that might see it incorporate tractor beams or boarding pods into its design (if it didn't already), longer range maybe even a bit faster and more agile, or smaller but more numerous to make harder to chase down each one etc. Maybe being smarter its ships bail out of the fight a little sooner if its clearly not winning to save on repairs and down time. Say when fleet HP reaches 60% instead of 40% or a smaller difference between fleet strength going your way.

That's what it'd look like under the hood - easy slight parameter adjustments and variances, while on the surface it has an awesome element of realism to it - just because a certain person or nation belongs to a certain species doesn't automatically mean they'll act the exact same way - you need to pay attention to their personality each game and it might slightly change up how things play out, adding again much more replayability and a little more variety.

Because after all - it's artificial intelligence.

< Message edited by Whiskiz -- 1/5/2021 4:49:41 AM >

(in reply to Galaxy227)
Post #: 41
RE: Distant Worlds 2 Sneak Peek #1 – Ship Design - 1/5/2021 7:17:09 AM   
Retreat1970


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Some RNG randomness would be fine in species traits or abilities, but I'm afraid the AI will be like all AI's before it: AI incremental bonuses per difficulty level. It's inescapable.

(in reply to Whiskiz)
Post #: 42
RE: Distant Worlds 2 Sneak Peek #1 – Ship Design - 1/5/2021 8:30:21 AM   
Whiskiz

 

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The RNG is only used to simulate personality so it's more adding variance than RNG, especially when as mentioned with certain parameters in place, certain races having certain personality traits and/or trait strength pre-dispositions (like the above races Cunning potential being between 2 - 5 out of 10)

So it's less of "Oh look that aggressive race 'rolled high friendliness' so i guess it's now everybodies friend this run and won't do much of anything" and more "ok cool that sneaky race happens to even more sneakier this time around, i better be careful when engaging them because they'll see it coming from further away and react earlier and i better stay on their good side or they'll manipulate others/pirates to come after me more"

AI will indeed always need cheats when talking about difficulty and its scaling, but that has nothing to do with this - this is more adding some flavor, some personality, extra variety and replayability including in the design of AI ships, within those difficulty levels.

< Message edited by Whiskiz -- 1/5/2021 9:02:35 AM >

(in reply to Retreat1970)
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RE: Distant Worlds 2 Sneak Peek #1 – Ship Design - 1/5/2021 9:39:06 AM   
Hyperion1


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IA cheating in DWU and also the exploit of selling research was always my main concern when playing.
I played at the beginning in easy mod and loved it, but the IA was stupid and don't developed at all.
Then I decided to play with average AI, I did some games and noticed despite how well I developed my empire, IA empire always ended to take the advantage, not looking to have problems with their wealth. And colonizing all planets at distance.
After checking what happened to, I noticed they cheat and it was a turn off.

For next games I will play easy again and use the editor for sometime balance IA, if I see it not develop fast enough.

(in reply to Whiskiz)
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RE: Distant Worlds 2 Sneak Peek #1 – Ship Design - 1/5/2021 2:55:02 PM   
Galaxy227

 

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Retreat and Hyperion appear to be focused on the competency of the AI, whereas you, Whiskiz, are not talking about it whatsoever. If I'm not mistaken, your argument is simply that some added variation of the individual races between each game would be a neat addition to Distant Worlds. To that I say yes, it would be neat.

My problem with your idea doesn't stem from the idea itself, but rather the implications of executing such an idea. Simply put, I believe it is far more worthwhile for the developers of DW2 to invest their time into better things. Adding another layer of unpredictability (especially from an idea so arbitrary in its demands, other than RNG for ship designs), only works to create more chores for the developers. Their time is money, and where they choose to invest throughout the course of development will be reflected in the quality of the product's final release. Again, having the AI fiddling with an added layer of "RNG," especially when the developers can't even perfect a more "streamlined, predictable AI..." It just spells nonsense.

Perhaps I'm wrong. Perhaps DW2 will release, and suddenly we'll have an dynamic, ever-evolving artificial intelligence, ready to pack a challenging punch to the player while simultaneously quenching your thirst for added variation. Or perhaps we could take into consideration the complexities of crafting a competent AI (so many C words!), and the limited resources our beloved DW2 development team has at their disposal, and tell ourselves to refrain from dumping our wish-lists onto their backs in the future. Again, to quote myself, your suggestion only works to eat up "development time for far too little pay-off."

If there's a moral to my story, it would be not to build any expectations and let the development of DW2 run its course.

< Message edited by Galaxy227 -- 1/5/2021 3:01:18 PM >

(in reply to Whiskiz)
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RE: Distant Worlds 2 Sneak Peek #1 – Ship Design - 1/5/2021 4:24:29 PM   
Retreat1970


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I hate to quote myself but,

quote:

Some RNG randomness would be fine in species traits or abilities


That being said any minor changes to the AI attributes isn't going to matter if the overall system is predictable. If the AI always acts the same what does it matter if a race is 50% less aggressive this game than the last?

(in reply to Galaxy227)
Post #: 46
RE: Distant Worlds 2 Sneak Peek #1 – Ship Design - 1/5/2021 4:33:46 PM   
Whiskiz

 

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"Retreat and Hyperion appear to be focused on the competency of the AI, whereas you, Whiskiz, are not talking about it whatsoever."

Incorrect, the difference is context - Retreat in his response to my post mentioned AI in context of difficulty, so i let him know that i was talking about the variety/replayability aspect more than difficulty scaling.

He said:

"Some RNG randomness would be fine in species traits or abilities, but I'm afraid the AI will be like all AI's before it: AI incremental bonuses per difficulty level. It's inescapable."

Moving on:

"Adding another layer of unpredictability"

Mostly slight parameter adjustments in their decision making and responses, based on slight personality variances, based on slight rolls in pre-determined traits, with slight pre-disposed parameters, is totally adding a whole other layer of unpredictability. Wanting to have a fleet sensor score of 400 instead of 200, as one of the ways to signify a slightly more Cunning race this time around - is just completely mindblowing.

I also disagree that the added replayability, variety and life that all the little things like that would add to the different races and playthroughs, wouldn't be worth those tweaks. People often say in games that one of the most important things to them is Diplomacy - interaction with the other factions. Adding a bit more life and depth to the other factions would thus in theory greatly enhance the gameplay. No?

Once released and a year has gone by and the novelty has mostly worn off, apart from modding - one of the most important things that'll keep people playing and word of mouth spreading - is variety and replayability, including in the interactions of other races and their AI.

< Message edited by Whiskiz -- 1/5/2021 5:22:55 PM >

(in reply to Galaxy227)
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RE: Distant Worlds 2 Sneak Peek #1 – Ship Design - 1/5/2021 5:20:13 PM   
Galaxy227

 

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It'll be interesting to see where DW2 takes us.

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RE: Distant Worlds 2 Sneak Peek #1 – Ship Design - 1/5/2021 5:31:00 PM   
Whiskiz

 

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Definitely.

The races in DW1 already have different personality traits or "characteristics" listed in their bio, too, i just hope they aren't as set in stone this next time round, that they're a little more dynamic. Would be cool.

(in reply to Galaxy227)
Post #: 49
RE: Distant Worlds 2 Sneak Peek #1 – Ship Design - 1/5/2021 10:59:11 PM   
Retreat1970


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The point is moot since we're moving into beta and big picture things have already been decided.

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RE: Distant Worlds 2 Sneak Peek #1 – Ship Design - 1/8/2021 11:46:50 AM   
popgea

 

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Is there somewhere to sign up for the beta?

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RE: Distant Worlds 2 Sneak Peek #1 – Ship Design - 1/8/2021 1:55:44 PM   
Miletkir


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popgea

Is there somewhere to sign up for the beta?


It will be announced I'm guessing as a separate forum thread and possibly as an open beta on the MG website --> matrixgames / community / beta

(in reply to popgea)
Post #: 52
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