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Heavy AAA and Flak

 
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Heavy AAA and Flak - 12/16/2019 7:29:07 PM   
Redmoose

 

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This post was made for my question as to why the anti-aircraft firing range was made so low for many heavy AAA (Cold War
Soviet: 85mm KS-12, 130mm KS-30, 85mm M1939
United Kingdom: 114mn/45QF Mark II
United States: 120mm M1A1, 75mm Skysweeper, 90mm M117, 90mm M1A1
There are several dozen heavy AAA for various countries but majority of repeats of the units above. The problem with many of these units is that they do not actually represent the units capabilitys.
Soviet Union:
KS-12 The in game unit fires the shell 85mm M1939 with a range of 1.5nm anti air but a range of 9nm for surface and land units. "Range 10,000 m vertical and 15,650 m horizontal"(www.armyrecognition.com), " 800 m / s initial projectile speed of 9.2 kg and a range of 10.5 km - allowed the new anti-aircraft gun to fight very effectively against armored and high-flying targets."(www.globalsecurity.org), "KS19 altitude max 9,600M Vertical 15,650M Horzontal" (FAS.org).
KS-30 The unit in game fires the shell 130mm KS-30 Shell with a range of 1.8nm anti air but a range of 4nm for surface and land units. "KS30 altitude max 20,000M Vertical 27,000M Horzontal" (FAS.org).
I struggled to find much if any information for the KS-30 but it would appear that the KS-30 has a wrong range horizontally aswell.
85mm M1939 The in game unit fires the shell 85mm M1939 with a range of 1.5nm anti air but a range of 9nm for surface and land units. This was another unit somewhat hard to find data on but given it is the same calibre as the KS-12 I would assume it has the same problems. But from what sources say "10,000 m vertical and 15,650 m horizontal"(Armyreconition.com). From what I have seen this is almost the same as the KS-12 but the KS-12 was built for navy ships then reused for army purposes. Correct me if I am wrong here I be very well wrong.
114mm/45QF I believe the numbers are right for the ranges but it appears that its an issue with elevation or the "up/down" ability. Any unit flying AGL 9843ft. I am not sure the problem with this unit but assuming it is talking about the elevation here.
120mm M1A1 Much like the issues with the soviet heavy AAA it's vertical range is far off with a mere range of 1.5nm. I know sourcing wikipedia is a terrible thing to do but " Its maximum altitude was about 60,000 ft (18,000 m), which earned it the nickname stratosphere gun."(Wikipedia), "The M1 120mm Gun was mounted on the eight-wheel M1 antiaircraft carriage, weighing about 31 tons with a 13-man crew. Its maximum vertical range was about 58,000 feet. Under good conditions a 120mm gun could deliver 20 seconds of effective fire on a conventional airplane flying at an altitude of 40,000 feet"(Olive Drab).
75mm Skysweeper Suffers from the same fate as many of these other guns as it does not have the range. The 75mm/45 M51 shell is given 1.5nm range in game.
90mm M117, 90mm M1A1 Both have the same problem with the ranges to fire at air units. They both have 1.5nm range to fire and is far below its reported "M1A1: 43,500 ft (13,300 m)", "Le projectile de 10 kg pouvait atteindre des avions volant à 8.000 mètres d’altitude."(Artillerie asso FR). While these both sources give the unit a slightly different capability, both are far from the games range. Now I am not sure if its suppose to be this way but all appear to have roughly the correct horizontal ranges that could be their vertical firing ranges? Not all but some. Earlier in this paragraph I stated I did not look at all of the HAA, the HAAs for other countries that use these suffer from the same exact problems so it does not appear to be a database entry mistype or anything. If anyone has a answer to why this data is portrayed the way it is I would greatly appreciate hearing about it, thanks!
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RE: Heavy AAA and Flak - 12/17/2019 5:09:19 AM   
Tookatee

 

Posts: 259
Joined: 6/11/2019
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Issues with database values go here https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3436106&mpage=178&key=� (the DB3000 database) or here https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3436158&mpage=28&key= (the Cold War database), provide proper sources as to what the values should be and properly indicate which database entries are affected (state the database number for the affected items.)

(in reply to Redmoose)
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RE: Heavy AAA and Flak - 12/17/2019 11:04:18 AM   
thewood1

 

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Joined: 11/27/2005
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And maybe format it a little. Its super hard to read and separate out the different numbers.

(in reply to Tookatee)
Post #: 3
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