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RE: A little disappointed. - 12/14/2019 7:45:46 PM   
Michael T


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quote:


So many things wrong with this comment. I'm distinguished with this individual, shame on you. The problem here is not any sense of entitlement, but rather the expectations given to the customer. IMO, these expectations have not been managed properly. I don't care if Matrix is supporting 1 million games, they need to understand all purchasers of these games are customers. Now it's up to how Matrix wants to handle relationships with those customers. I don't think there would have been an issue here if it was clear that the patch could take up to 2 weeks (or whatever), but it seemed to almost be promised each day and each day it didn't arrive. So naturally there will be disappointment. The fact that anybody wouldn't understand that concept makes me wonder what planet they live on or rather the lack of empathy they posses.


+1

Matrix has sunk to new lows IMO.

< Message edited by Michael T -- 12/14/2019 8:08:32 PM >


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RE: A little disappointed. - 12/14/2019 8:11:27 PM   
budd


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Sigh....here come the battle lines about to be drawn. I'm guessing Mr. Sousa is thinking twice about being so forth coming about the status of patches.

Guess i was as disappointed as most, but then i remembered, its just a game.

Happy Holidays Everyone

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*I'm in the Wargamer middle ground*
I don't buy all the wargames I want, I just buy more than I need.

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Post #: 32
RE: A little disappointed. - 12/14/2019 8:53:02 PM   
AndrewKurtz

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: budd
Guess i was as disappointed as most, but then i remembered, its just a game.

Happy Holidays Everyone


+1



< Message edited by AndrewKurtz -- 12/14/2019 8:54:15 PM >


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Post #: 33
RE: A little disappointed. - 12/14/2019 8:56:55 PM   
Barthheart


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AndrewKurtz

quote:

ORIGINAL: budd
Guess i was as disappointed as most, but then i remembered, its just a game.

Happy Holidays Everyone


+1




+100

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Post #: 34
RE: A little disappointed. - 12/14/2019 9:42:50 PM   
Simulacra53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: budd

Sigh....here come the battle lines about to be drawn. I'm guessing Mr. Sousa is thinking twice about being so forth coming about the status of patches.

Guess i was as disappointed as most, but then i remembered, its just a game.

Happy Holidays Everyone


+1

It is a new game that is very actively supported.
In the context of Real Life (tm) - even on a budget - there are more important things to get worked up about.

...this is not about being customers, or customer service, but impatience and entitlement.


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Post #: 35
RE: A little disappointed. - 12/14/2019 9:44:45 PM   
Simulacra53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T
Matrix has sunk to new lows IMO.


You’d think they’ve drowned kittens...


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Post #: 36
RE: A little disappointed. - 12/14/2019 9:47:47 PM   
Michael T


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Well as long as they have cohorts of groupies they have no worries.



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Post #: 37
RE: A little disappointed. - 12/14/2019 10:06:21 PM   
goodwoodrw


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Bart, as I said we are entitled to our opinions, I'm over it now, bearing no grudges. Now back to the original issue, rightly or wrongfully when I purchased this game a week ago I had an expectation of a patch being released. I didn't purchase the game on release because of several doubts I had, with the publishing of each patch it diminished my negativity and tipped my attitude towards purchasing the game. I have had the game for a week and I haven't played it, and not likely to until the next patch. I am probably more cranky with myself than what I am with either publisher or developer. My original intention was not to purchase until the game was patched again, Sadly I weakened, and if a patch doesn't come this week I will ask for an improbable refund. I have nothing more to say on the matter.

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Post #: 38
RE: A little disappointed. - 12/14/2019 11:20:04 PM   
jzardos


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Simulacra53

quote:

ORIGINAL: budd

Sigh....here come the battle lines about to be drawn. I'm guessing Mr. Sousa is thinking twice about being so forth coming about the status of patches.

Guess i was as disappointed as most, but then i remembered, its just a game.

Happy Holidays Everyone


+1

It is a new game that is very actively supported.
In the context of Real Life (tm) - even on a budget - there are more important things to get worked up about.

...this is not about being customers, or customer service, but impatience and entitlement.




I strongly disagree with this statement. What thread have you been following. Try and follow this logic please

- good or bad Alvaro has been promising patches and up until recently dates were being met
- an expectation was set
- the last patch request was conveyed in writing to be ready and then postponed for 1-2 days repeatedly
- customers are now disappointed as they have planed their schedule around it (for better or worse)
- Matrix has yet to say anything and they are at the center of this delay
- customers again are disappointed

So you are going to tell us, with a straight face, that this is not about being customers or customer service. You do realize people paid $$ for this product? I'm not going to presuppose anything with somebody that makes this sort of a comment.

Let me help you with some definitions:

Customer:
a person or organization that buys goods or services from a store or business.


Customer service is the interaction between the buyer of a product and the company that sells it.

So far there is a lack of interaction from the point for the company that sold it.

I'm not trying to make you look silly, you did that yourself. We don't appreciate those that want to minimize what is going on here for what I believe is an opportunity to kiss arse.

Do I think anybody here did anything intentional to hurt customers or cause problems, NO.
Going forward I think it would help everybody to have clear and reasonable expectations on any further patches. If they take a month, so be it.

< Message edited by jzardos -- 12/14/2019 11:24:21 PM >

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Post #: 39
RE: A little disappointed. - 12/14/2019 11:49:50 PM   
Barthheart


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quote:

ORIGINAL: goodwoodrw

Bart, as I said we are entitled to our opinions, I'm over it now, bearing no grudges. Now back to the original issue, rightly or wrongfully when I purchased this game a week ago I had an expectation of a patch being released. I didn't purchase the game on release because of several doubts I had, with the publishing of each patch it diminished my negativity and tipped my attitude towards purchasing the game. I have had the game for a week and I haven't played it, and not likely to until the next patch. I am probably more cranky with myself than what I am with either publisher or developer. My original intention was not to purchase until the game was patched again, Sadly I weakened, and if a patch doesn't come this week I will ask for an improbable refund. I have nothing more to say on the matter.




I think you'll miss out if you get a refund, but I understand everyone's game money is differently spent.
And you could always buy it again on sale at a later date.


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RE: A little disappointed. - 12/15/2019 12:46:49 AM   
Flaviusx


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It is the God given right of any proper grognard to complain, piss and moan about this or any other thing they choose to. We are a surly lot, and I wouldn't have it any other way.

Also, "the customer is always wrong" is some kind of weird new business principle I have never heard of before. Good luck with that one.

< Message edited by Flaviusx -- 12/15/2019 12:47:21 AM >


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Post #: 41
RE: A little disappointed. - 12/15/2019 1:06:03 AM   
Rosseau

 

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Posted here by mistake.

However, a round of applause (and man-hugs) to Al Sousa and his tireless efforts. They will be rewarded (usually).

< Message edited by Rosseau -- 12/15/2019 1:08:42 AM >

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Post #: 42
RE: A little disappointed. - 12/15/2019 7:35:08 AM   
Simulacra53


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You’ve paid a little sum of money for a game.

1. This new game has been recently released
2. It is stable and well supported
3. The developer is extraordinarily transparent and active.
4. New patch is in the pipeline
5. Future patches already being worked on
6. Follow-up game being worked on

Now the actual release of v1.04 has been delayed - for a couple of weeks.
If you had not known there was a “completed” patch you would not have been bitching here about customer care.
You don’t know why the patch release is delayed, there could be a multitude of reasons including very human ones.

If there are lessons learned here they are:
1. Matrix could explain why the actual release is delayed
2. AV could stop saying a patch is ready when it still has to go through the pipeline.

To be blunt this was a mistake in expectation management,
Now you can accept that fact, or stamp your feet and throw a tantrum while demanding that Matrix release the patch ASAP.

Now according to God’s Will accepting a delay is being a groupie, well he knows what I think of him so no loss there, but you can strongly disagree, I still call this behavior entitled. WarPlan was released October 24th, it has received constant updates. During that period it has been a stable playable game.

But there are reasons why some games may get priority - think about what AV said.

I can understand being disappointed, the childish behavior is something else.
Grognards, more like toddlers throwing a fit because they don’t instantly get what they want.

Nough said, this thread smells.



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Post #: 43
RE: A little disappointed. - 12/15/2019 9:16:20 AM   
Michael T


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So, I guess you are at least smart enough to know the feeling is mutual.


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Post #: 44
RE: A little disappointed. - 12/15/2019 9:36:11 AM   
demyansk


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I have a lot of patience. I have purchased games from other companies and the games were junk. I like these games, definitely get your money's worth.

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Post #: 45
RE: A little disappointed. - 12/15/2019 11:12:29 AM   
ivanov


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You guys clearly are not the customers of Battlefront. The latest patch for Combat Mission, fixing the game breaking bug, was released after two years. I understand that given the average age of a wargamer, some of you may be impatient. But rest assured, that most of you will live to see the release of the War Plan patch. And if you don't, your sacrifice and patience won't be in vain. Like the sacrifice of so many generations before at Somme, Omaha Beach and Hue...

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Post #: 46
RE: A little disappointed. - 12/15/2019 2:44:02 PM   
Journier

 

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well the casket is waiting for me, i slowly creep toward it, hopefully the patch comes before i lay in it.

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Post #: 47
RE: A little disappointed. - 12/15/2019 4:38:58 PM   
Zovs


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Man you guys must have never played board war games in the 70’s, 80’s or 90’s for Pete’s sake. I’d order one or more games from say Avalon Hill or SPI (I grew up on the west coast and one was in Baltimore and the other in NY), and the box would arrive about six weeks later.

Man...

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Post #: 48
RE: A little disappointed. - 12/15/2019 8:32:46 PM   
Michael T


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I think some of you guys are missing the point here. The developer has finished the patch. He has tested the patch. All matrix need to do is upload it to their servers. A process that has taken so far over 2 weeks. That is the complaint. I think most of us would agree the support of the game by Alvaro is outstanding.

Matrix have been sitting on their hands with the patch though. Does anyone really believe they have some expert tester who knows the in's and out's of WarPlan and is spending days and days testing the patch?

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RE: A little disappointed. - 12/15/2019 9:00:43 PM   
Journier

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T
Matrix have been sitting on their hands with the patch though. Does anyone really believe they have some expert tester who knows the in's and out's of WarPlan and is spending days and days testing the patch?


Billy bob in the basement of matrix is testing warplan in 100's of games right this very moment to make sure he can upload it to the FTP server next week after he puts the files into a installer. He is the primary tester for warplan and making sure the patch is digitally signed authentically.



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RE: A little disappointed. - 12/15/2019 9:05:48 PM   
Michael T


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Thanks Billy bob, your the best

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RE: A little disappointed. - 12/16/2019 12:15:09 AM   
Rob322

 

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This thread is quite amusing in it's way. I wonder if this is the way to get Matrix's attention though. After all, everyone acknowledges the game designer has done his thing and the general issue seems to be whether the length of time the publisher has taken to put out the patch is warranted or not. Maybe there's a better way of getting the publisher's attention and not cluttering up the game page.

Oh well, all this angst has been fun. Makes me want to buy the game even more.

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Post #: 52
RE: A little disappointed. - 12/16/2019 12:30:38 AM   
mroyer

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zovs

Man you guys must have never played board war games in the 70’s, 80’s or 90’s for Pete’s sake. I’d order one or more games from say Avalon Hill or SPI (I grew up on the west coast and one was in Baltimore and the other in NY), and the box would arrive about six weeks later.

Man...



And the update patch would show up in the mail several years later with "Advanced" attached to the start of the game title. (Oh, and you got to pay for it all over again )
-Mark R.

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Post #: 53
RE: A little disappointed. - 12/16/2019 7:27:02 AM   
Zovs


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mroyer


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zovs

Man you guys must have never played board war games in the 70’s, 80’s or 90’s for Pete’s sake. I’d order one or more games from say Avalon Hill or SPI (I grew up on the west coast and one was in Baltimore and the other in NY), and the box would arrive about six weeks later.

Man...



And the update patch would show up in the mail several years later with "Advanced" attached to the start of the game title. (Oh, and you got to pay for it all over again )
-Mark R.



LOL, Mark do you remember how long it took from the first Narvik 1st edition to the second edition? (and yes you had to pay for both).

But here is the kicker who remembers when the Europa series was first launched (year) and when it was finished and which versions and how many companies?

lol



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Post #: 54
RE: A little disappointed. - 12/16/2019 9:15:33 AM   
Michael T


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Europa was never finished, and the number companies, I lost count. But I started it in 1983 with Western Desert. Went on to get the entire series from GDW. Europa passed away with Winston Hamilton.

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RE: A little disappointed. - 12/16/2019 10:21:07 AM   
mroyer

 

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quote:


Narvik 1st edition to the second edition?

who remembers when the Europa series was first launched (year) and when it was finished and which versions and how many companies?


Without looking it up in Wikipedia...
Narik first to second edition (no idea, just guessing): 1976 to 1992
I'm going to guess 1974 for the first game, first half of the eastern front (forget the name of the game(!), but the update version in mid '80s was Fire in the East). The last Europa game was Second Front in 1997.

The Series started with Game Design Workshop, transitioned to Games Research/Design and ended up with Historical Military Simulations, though the last never published a game; Michael T is correct, imo, the series ended with Winston's passing and the end of GR/D.

Lets see... from Wikipedia:
Game Designers Workshop (GDW), 1973–1987
Game Research/Design (GRD), 1989–2000
Mill Creek Ventures, 2001–2003
Historical Military Services (HMS), 2004–present

First game published: Drang nach Osten! - 1973
Last game published: Storm Over Scandinavia - 1998

First Narvik: Narvik, (Nar) GDW 1974.
Update: Storm Over Scandinavia (SoS) GRD 1998.


Rats, totally forgot about Mill Creek (and I actually visited their site in Michigan!) and I was off by a couple years on the publication dates.

-Mark R.






< Message edited by mroyer -- 12/16/2019 10:31:27 AM >

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RE: A little disappointed. - 12/16/2019 10:30:07 AM   
demyansk


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Remember the early computer wargames? I received the patches in the mail on 3.5" disks for V for Victory games. I even received the 5 1/4" floppies for the original Harpoon. Slow = 4kb/sec download speed on dial up.

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Post #: 57
RE: A little disappointed. - 12/16/2019 10:30:44 AM   
newheart

 

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I emailed Slitherine about the Warplan patch and got this reply:
" The patch was not released yet as it's not ready to be released. The patch is going through our internal processes right now to ensure it passes our QA. We still hope to be able to be released this week."

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Post #: 58
RE: A little disappointed. - 12/16/2019 10:42:15 AM   
Radagy


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Guys, the patch is currently online
http://ftp.eu.matrixgames.com/pub/WarPlan/

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Post #: 59
RE: A little disappointed. - 12/16/2019 11:00:46 AM   
Zovs


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T

Europa was never finished, and the number companies, I lost count. But I started it in 1983 with Western Desert. Went on to get the entire series from GDW. Europa passed away with Winston Hamilton.


You are correct that Europa has never been finished but it did not start in 1983 with Western Desert that came out in 1995.

Europa started in 1973 with Drang nach Osten! followed in 1974 with Unentschieden and Narvik.

Europa I
DNO 1973 GDW
Fire in the East 1984 GDW
Total War (never published) HMS/GRD
Europa II
Unentschieden 1974 GDW
Scorched Earth 1987 GDW
Europa III
Maritia-Merkur 1979 GDW
Balkan Front 1990 GRD
Europa IV
Narvik 1974 GDW
Storm Over Scandinavia 1998 GRD
Europa V
Their Finest Hour 1976 GDW
Europa VI
Western Desert GDW 1982
War in the Desert 1995 GRD
Europa VII
Case White 1977 GDW
First to Fight 1991 GRD
Europa VIII
The Fall of France 1981 GDW
Europa IX
The Near East 1983 GDW
War in the Desert 1995 GRD
Europa X
Spain and Portugal 1984 GDW
For Whom the Bell Tolls 1995 GRD
Europa XII
Second Front 1994 GRD
Europa XIII
The Urals 1989 GRD
Europa XIV
A Winter War 1992 GRD
Europa XV
The Naval War (never completed)
Europa XVI
Grand Europa (never completed)
Europa XVII
Peace in our Time (never completed)

Companies producing Europa
GDW, GR/D and HMS

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War in the East/War in the East II - Alpha Test Teams
WarPlan Beta Tester
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