Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

On the fence about upgrade, some questions.

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Command: Modern Operations series >> On the fence about upgrade, some questions. Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
On the fence about upgrade, some questions. - 12/6/2019 12:04:01 AM   
Monkie

 

Posts: 123
Joined: 6/12/2005
Status: online
I'm thinking of getting the upgrade at this time to take advantage of the discount but I'm a bit concerned about a couple of things.

The biggest issue is Hard Drive space, I can't seem to find a good answer. CMANO is running around 25GB, and I've seen that CMO uses some sort of cache for the new upgraded maps and this is the worry, just how big will that become? I have heard 500GB tossed around, which seems way out of my league as far as space. Also there was a thread where people were getting very poor map performance due to the fact it kept having to be accessed online. I don't always have the best internet connection when traveling, how might that affect my ability to play?

What about the dreaded "red X" error that locks up the game? Is this a game killing bug for many at the moment?

CMANO runs fine for me at the moment and I"d love to support the development and take advantage of the upgrade but I don't want to lose it and find myself with a game I can't run at the moment.

As a side note, if the cache does need large storage, would it be possible to run CMO or chache onto a portable SSD drive?

thanks for any input.





< Message edited by Monkie -- 12/6/2019 12:05:38 AM >
Post #: 1
RE: On the fence about upgrade, some questions. - 12/6/2019 12:19:34 AM   
mavfin

 

Posts: 269
Joined: 6/22/2010
Status: offline
CMO is about 14 GB atm.

(in reply to Monkie)
Post #: 2
RE: On the fence about upgrade, some questions. - 12/6/2019 12:26:46 AM   
thewood1

 

Posts: 4369
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline
On my PCs:

CMNAO - 14Gb
CMO - 24Gb

Thats with all community scenarios, DLCs, descriptions, and community images on both.

(in reply to mavfin)
Post #: 3
RE: On the fence about upgrade, some questions. - 12/6/2019 12:37:46 AM   
Monkie

 

Posts: 123
Joined: 6/12/2005
Status: online
I stand corrected, I see that my CMANO is 14GB as well.

(in reply to thewood1)
Post #: 4
RE: On the fence about upgrade, some questions. - 12/6/2019 2:10:03 AM   
DWReese

 

Posts: 1225
Joined: 3/21/2014
Status: online
quote:

"What about the dreaded "red X" error that locks up the game? Is this a game killing bug for many at the moment?"

I haven't seen that, but I'm sure that some have. They reported it, and I am sure that it will be fixed.

"CMANO runs fine for me at the moment and I"d love to support the development and take advantage of the upgrade but I don't want to lose it and find myself with a game I can't run at the moment.


Support will likely stop completely for CMANO, if it hasn't already. CMO is a replacement for CMANO. So, you can have both on your computer if you desire (I did), but you have to recognize that CMANO will not receive any new database changes or game engine changes. What you have is what you will have forever with CMANO. So, if you desire to continue to stay current with this game, you really have no choice but to upgrade.

Do it while the sale is going on. The devs have given us free upgrades for years. It's time to show them some love.

(in reply to Monkie)
Post #: 5
RE: On the fence about upgrade, some questions. - 12/6/2019 2:29:43 AM   
Monkie

 

Posts: 123
Joined: 6/12/2005
Status: online
I guess a better way of wording my question is when I purchase the upgrade will I have issues with HD space. I just don't want to find it one day eating up 50GB because I've zoomed in on several areas over time. While some folks might have the hardware to handle 500GB of data some of us don't so I'd like to see what people are finding for the true HD usage. I believe I read in a thread here or on steam that the devs were thinking of implementing a lot more control for the user over the chache usage and storage areas?

My desire to purchase isn't really in question at this point.

(in reply to DWReese)
Post #: 6
RE: On the fence about upgrade, some questions. - 12/6/2019 11:30:57 AM   
ultradave


Posts: 1221
Joined: 8/20/2013
Status: offline
C:MANO - 14.9 GB
CMO - 15.1 GB

I have every DLC and LIVE licensed for both. I've been using CMO quite a bit and playing around with map options, so space seems not to be an issue.

_____________________________

----------------
Dave A.
"When the Boogeyman goes to sleep he checks his closet for paratroopers"

(in reply to Monkie)
Post #: 7
RE: On the fence about upgrade, some questions. - 12/6/2019 12:03:27 PM   
DWReese

 

Posts: 1225
Joined: 3/21/2014
Status: online
Only you can determine whether you have each of the versions on your computer. They essentially take up the same amount of space.

But, as new weapons are created, they will not appear in CMANO because it will no longer be updated. So, whether you liked it or not, things have changed. You will need to change too, otherwise you will be on the sidelines.

Again, whether you keep both games (like I said, I did) is up to you. If you have the space, then there is no problem.

Good luck with your choice.

(in reply to Monkie)
Post #: 8
RE: On the fence about upgrade, some questions. - 12/6/2019 1:18:06 PM   
gennyo

 

Posts: 22
Joined: 4/3/2019
Status: offline
Personal experience time.

I think you should update at once if you meet one of the criterias listed below:

1) Have a desktop computer with 4 or more physical cores, as the new version utilizes more cpu times with a better thread scheduling in my opinion. If you works on bigger scenarios, it may run smoother (but not always faster).

The default tick for simulation is 0.1s, but as I observed, I think it has a better granularity for thread scheduling now, and elicits more CPU cores to complete piled up threads. The "Afterburner" setting changes tick to 1s, and looks like piling more threads in the waiting queue, so more CPU cores may brings smoother simulation than CMANO.

2) Finds some bugs in the latest CMANO updates unbearable and need an update in desperate. To me, the latest update somewhat makes the map really crawls for some unknown reason and I think CMO worth every penny for a much more responsive interface.

If not above, my personal may or may not helps you to make a decision.

First, my game runs on a i5-6300U laptop at 10W tdp and turbo boost disabled (for better battery life and crazy issue about Windows 10 chokes on excessive interrupt delay), 16G ddr4, 1TB SATA SSD and Intel HD 520 internal graphic processor, in Steam mode.

1) About space usage.

My CMO installation uses about 8.6G, with all database version provided by the ~8 update pack in this forum, and removed all provided scenarios. You can search for my post about how to slim the installation. Steam update may reinstate some files at sometime but you can do the removal work after autoupdate.

2) About map online updating and caching.

"CHINA" explains all kinds of network issues. After installation CMO hardly downloaded much mapping contents from servers as I played and I didn't find much lagging in playing. Now I simply blocked network downloading using firewall as I really didn't find the new mapping option usable in my location, the game runs fine.

3) About the dreaded RED X

CMO does need some GPU muscles to work properly this time. I used Maximum Battery Life setting for my GPU and CMO run with shutters and occasionally red Xs. Now changed to Balanced the games runs much better and smoother. The ~8 update helps in this problem too.
If the red X comes too often, consider updating display driver or uses Windows 8 compatibility mode, the latter helps me a lot in the situation described below.

4) About running on laptops.

CMO EATS BATTERY. In idle it still runs about 25~50% CPU usages and keeps them at the highest possible clock (bit strangely not really stresses the system and make other programs crawling). As a workaround, I uses Process Explorer suspends CMO if I need more battery life and don't want to restart CMO everytime I put it idling in background. This crazy and highly not recommended workaround makes CMO in the verge of crashing and displaying the big red X but I found it performing acceptable with windows 8 compatibility settings. It's a little slower than without the compatibility shim, but the uptime between crashes is about 6~12 hours on and off occasionally, with autosaving running bettter than CMANO in conserving the latest saves. Maximum uptime is about 18 hours.

(in reply to DWReese)
Post #: 9
RE: On the fence about upgrade, some questions. - 12/6/2019 8:34:34 PM   
Monkie

 

Posts: 123
Joined: 6/12/2005
Status: online
Thanks for all the feedback, especially about storage, I purchased and will be installing it soon.

(in reply to gennyo)
Post #: 10
RE: On the fence about upgrade, some questions. - 12/7/2019 5:28:49 AM   
guanotwozero

 

Posts: 394
Joined: 12/27/2013
Status: offline
If the laptop is your main machine and it's short on storage, then it makes sense to use a portable external drive. I did that for an earlier machine - it's easy to throw the drive in a bag with the laptop and quick to set up. Besides, the newer SSDs are quite dinky. I agree CMO is power hungry, so make sure to bring your power cable too.

(in reply to Monkie)
Post #: 11
RE: On the fence about upgrade, some questions. - 12/7/2019 6:36:29 PM   
LargeDiameterBomb

 

Posts: 46
Joined: 3/3/2019
Status: offline
About the caching of map data:

Some maps do not work as designed for the moment and speeds are often slow but i have noticed much better speeds recently.

There are five new map types which make up the a little more than half the terabyte of data that can be cached. Map types are divided into map layers with progressively higher resolution as the camera height decreases, ie as you zoom in. There are reportedly, according to an administrator as many as 13 map layers, although I am not sure if that goes for all the new map types, I am fairly certain that one of them does not include that many layers or at least holds very little data in all but the three to five most high resolution layers.

One map type is as currently not loading something like the five lowest layers (The land cover map which shows which type of terrain covers the earth) and one type will not load one or two of the lowest layers (The Relief layer map, the one present in CMANO that shows height differences very well). All other maps seem to load correctly although slow sometimes.
There are also rendering problems with the Stamen - terrain and Stamen - Road + Cities maps at lower layers. However, I have noticed that zooming in to 10 m camera height where the map disappears and then zooming out til the camera height you were at solves these rendering problems until they appear again.

Now,
I have purposely downloaded all available map data for approx 75 % of the area of the countries to the west of the Baltic sea (Sweden, Denmark, Norway) plus Nigeria, the coastal parts of present day Germany and about 50 percent of the Baltic states and coastal areas of Poland - for all the map layers available.

I have also downloaded approximately the seven uppermost layers of four maps for most of Europe and the four uppermost layers for all map types for the above mentioned areas plus most parts of the eastern hemispere ((Excluding Australia and Polynesia) and some parts of the western hemisphere and my Map cache folder size was around 30 Gb last i checked. Also there are some other places where I have downloaded all maps available down to the third or second last layer, such as the alps, parts of Spain and Morocco and Cuba and some other quite small, localized places.

Remember that scenarios that are played mostly over water will require very little additional data than what's already installed with the game since the base map that's there in CMANO is included with the install in CMO as well
.
I would guesstimate that the average player will find himself with a cache that is 100 to a maximum of 250 Gb of data after playing the game for many years, in the lesser range if one predominantly plays scenarios taking place mostly over sea and the upper range if you play many scenarios where you frequently zoom in to a very low map height (below approx 15000 meters for large parts of the area your scenario is taking place in for almost all map types).
Also, a reasonable assumption is that much map data will not be downloaded ever by many or even most or possibly almost all people - Think the lower layers (Which of course makes up the bulk of the data) of the inner parts of the following continents/countries/places: Northern America, Australia, Antarctica, the former USSR, Western China, Greenland, Much of Africa and so on. If people will download to the lowest layer there it will be highly localized and not take up much space. That is much of the earth's surface.

So that is my guesstimate as to how much cache will be needed.

Also, you can delete your whole map cache or parts of it at will, though you would only know what map type you are deleting and not specifically what parts of the map you are deleting due to the library structure of the cache.

And last, apparently the devs are also at least somewhat considering compressing the map data into a format that would make it something of the order of 75 % smaller.

Hope this helps.

< Message edited by LargeDiameterBomb -- 12/7/2019 6:46:05 PM >

(in reply to guanotwozero)
Post #: 12
RE: On the fence about upgrade, some questions. - 12/8/2019 1:46:41 PM   
Monkie

 

Posts: 123
Joined: 6/12/2005
Status: online
The idea of the cache slowing growing to 100GB or more is exactly what I'm afraid of. I'm hoping to see a lot of control over the location and size of this cache available to the users. I wouldn't mind seeing the ability to use a portable SSD just for this cache location.

good info thanks for the feedback.

(in reply to LargeDiameterBomb)
Post #: 13
RE: On the fence about upgrade, some questions. - 12/8/2019 5:53:31 PM   
Capocarro94

 

Posts: 13
Joined: 2/6/2019
Status: offline
Is it normal for every game session to lose 0.1 / 0.2 GB of space, in the Steam version? Is it because of satellite maps?

(in reply to Monkie)
Post #: 14
RE: On the fence about upgrade, some questions. - 12/9/2019 3:42:06 PM   
Monkie

 

Posts: 123
Joined: 6/12/2005
Status: online
I can only imagine it's the growing cache size for the Sentinel maps. I'm wondering if the Stamen maps are the same as far as cache or if they are less intensive size wise. I'm finding that I am happy using the BMNG and Stamen maps, only referring to the Sentinel maps once in awhile if I'm curious about a runway layout or other details.

Now if only we could change the colors of the course plots so they contrast appropriately with the different maps.

(in reply to Capocarro94)
Post #: 15
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Command: Modern Operations series >> On the fence about upgrade, some questions. Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.133