Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

What the heck????

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> What the heck???? Page: [1] 2 3   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
What the heck???? - 12/1/2019 6:40:47 AM   
battleground

 

Posts: 97
Joined: 4/26/2009
Status: offline
I have setup and played 4 games since yesterday. 3 full campaign and 1 historical Pearl Harbor.
In every single game the Japanese CVs sit NW of Pearl Harbor and rip its guts out for DAYS. They
sink well over half of anything in the harbor and destroy any land targets. I tried to send out
an "In Harms Way" TF of every cruiser and DD with a gun on it ... surface action in daylight where
about 90% of my shots miss and then his carriers blow the TF to dust bunnies THEN go on to attack
Pearl Harbor again. I know there is a major nerf on the Allies (I have yet to have a torpedo
plane in the Java/Philippines to ever hit something for weeks except cargo ships). I managed
to have a DD group ambush his AO squadron ripping them up but the AI could care less and spends
another day blowing the innards of Pearl. I have abandoned all the games as unplayable as their
seems to be no AI decision of withdrawing after the initial strike. I now have 11 total fighters
in Pearl and I cannot load any in San Francisco. Also the nerf of locking in all forces except by
marching overland so you cannot switch some ground troops to another HQ so I can at least put up
a fight on the Andaman Is. I cannot load US/Dutch/UK troops even when i spend the PP which the
rules say I can do for (R)HQs. I remember the nerfs from WITP other two versions but the AI on
Normal appears to be fanatical about destroying Pearl utterly. I just bought this but will
switch back to the non-Admirals version so I can at least get a start at something. Other players,
please don't tell me how great your games were as that is immaterial. Really a big waste of 2
days of gaming (I have been computer gaming since the 1981).


EDIT: I went to where my old non-admiral version was and i see this OVERWROTE that program. That
is just swell. You think it would have a different file. Now I get to rummage thru old boxes in
the garage to find my hard copy. That is just swell. 2 days wasted and another one tomorrow.



< Message edited by battleground -- 12/1/2019 7:01:38 AM >
Post #: 1
RE: What the heck???? - 12/1/2019 8:26:10 AM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 14365
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: battleground

I have setup and played 4 games since yesterday. 3 full campaign and 1 historical Pearl Harbor.
In every single game the Japanese CVs sit NW of Pearl Harbor and rip its guts out for DAYS. They
sink well over half of anything in the harbor and destroy any land targets. I tried to send out
an "In Harms Way" TF of every cruiser and DD with a gun on it ... surface action in daylight where
about 90% of my shots miss and then his carriers blow the TF to dust bunnies THEN go on to attack
Pearl Harbor again. I know there is a major nerf on the Allies (I have yet to have a torpedo
plane in the Java/Philippines to ever hit something for weeks except cargo ships). I managed
to have a DD group ambush his AO squadron ripping them up but the AI could care less and spends
another day blowing the innards of Pearl. I have abandoned all the games as unplayable as their
seems to be no AI decision of withdrawing after the initial strike. I now have 11 total fighters
in Pearl and I cannot load any in San Francisco. Also the nerf of locking in all forces except by
marching overland so you cannot switch some ground troops to another HQ so I can at least put up
a fight on the Andaman Is. I cannot load US/Dutch/UK troops even when i spend the PP which the
rules say I can do for (R)HQs. I remember the nerfs from WITP other two versions but the AI on
Normal appears to be fanatical about destroying Pearl utterly. I just bought this but will
switch back to the non-Admirals version so I can at least get a start at something. Other players,
please don't tell me how great your games were as that is immaterial. Really a big waste of 2
days of gaming (I have been computer gaming since the 1981).


EDIT: I went to where my old non-admiral version was and i see this OVERWROTE that program. That
is just swell. You think it would have a different file. Now I get to rummage thru old boxes in
the garage to find my hard copy. That is just swell. 2 days wasted and another one tomorrow.


Given that almost all the players here have tried a grand campaign or two and had to deal with the initial PH attacks, I can only think that with the right settings you can make the second day of Japanese strikes painful enough that KB will leave. We need to see a lot of samples of your settings, like game difficulty, air unit settings (especially CAP altitudes and range) leaders of key units (did you replace any duds?), sub patrols - the list goes on. Send a few screen shots and we can start the post-mortem. Also tell us what patch version of the game you are using and what scenario you are playing.

From players who have played both WITP and WITP-AE, the latter is much more complex and requires a lot of tinkering to understand how things work and what to expect from your settings. Being a WITP player is not enough to guarantee you can play AE right off the bat.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to battleground)
Post #: 2
RE: What the heck???? - 12/1/2019 10:18:00 AM   
battleground

 

Posts: 97
Joined: 4/26/2009
Status: offline
Thanks for the reply. I have removed it from my PC til after I get the old one reinstalled in a different
file so when I reinstall the AE version it will have its proper place. There are two different games and
it should not have overwritten my files and games in my old WITP. In the campaign game you have no way to
preset your bases (the game was set with all historical choices beginning on the 7th at Normal). Four times
Nagumo has not only decided to hit Pearl again he does it on the 8th and 9th and at the same time destroys
the surface TF I can attack him with (3CA 2CL 12DD) and goes back to bombing Pearl. So much damage is done
in the initial strike and the followup one that I find I have less than 15 fighters able to face him and
just about as bad in bombers. Now as a human player that is exactly what I would do... kick your opponent
in the head when he is half conscious on the floor... but where is the % of Nagumo to stay vs Nagumo who
leaves. In all 4 games (1 with PH already done) he always stays. Just bought the game 2 days ago but
have been playing Grigsby's games since the initial Pacific War and War in the South Pacific (where I had
3 I boats flying off the Shokaku... 1 one shot down by AA and I am unsure the gun crew knew how to count
that kill). Its the variable does Nagumo who is cautious wait or leave as in real life. Other than that
(and having to list all the ship types on paper as too many years have passed for me to remember them all.
Wonderful detail. A monster game indeed in the scale of Aurora 4X


(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 3
x - 12/1/2019 10:19:19 AM   
battleground

 

Posts: 97
Joined: 4/26/2009
Status: offline
duplicate removed



< Message edited by battleground -- 12/2/2019 1:08:56 AM >

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 4
RE: What the heck???? - 12/1/2019 11:17:51 AM   
ITAKLinus

 

Posts: 302
Joined: 2/22/2018
From: Italy
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: battleground

I have setup and played 4 games since yesterday. 3 full campaign and 1 historical Pearl Harbor.
In every single game the Japanese CVs sit NW of Pearl Harbor and rip its guts out for DAYS. They
sink well over half of anything in the harbor and destroy any land targets. I tried to send out
an "In Harms Way" TF of every cruiser and DD with a gun on it ... surface action in daylight where
about 90% of my shots miss and then his carriers blow the TF to dust bunnies THEN go on to attack
Pearl Harbor again. I know there is a major nerf on the Allies (I have yet to have a torpedo
plane in the Java/Philippines to ever hit something for weeks except cargo ships). I managed
to have a DD group ambush his AO squadron ripping them up but the AI could care less and spends
another day blowing the innards of Pearl. I have abandoned all the games as unplayable as their
seems to be no AI decision of withdrawing after the initial strike. I now have 11 total fighters
in Pearl and I cannot load any in San Francisco. Also the nerf of locking in all forces except by
marching overland so you cannot switch some ground troops to another HQ so I can at least put up
a fight on the Andaman Is. I cannot load US/Dutch/UK troops even when i spend the PP which the
rules say I can do for (R)HQs. I remember the nerfs from WITP other two versions but the AI on
Normal appears to be fanatical about destroying Pearl utterly. I just bought this but will
switch back to the non-Admirals version so I can at least get a start at something. Other players,
please don't tell me how great your games were as that is immaterial. Really a big waste of 2
days of gaming (I have been computer gaming since the 1981).


EDIT: I went to where my old non-admiral version was and i see this OVERWROTE that program. That
is just swell. You think it would have a different file. Now I get to rummage thru old boxes in
the garage to find my hard copy. That is just swell. 2 days wasted and another one tomorrow.





Take with a grain of salt what I say but CVs pounding PH for several days is quite bizarre. I have never played against AI, though.



Still. It's not the game being "unplayable", it's that you make mistakes or have wrong expectations.

A) TBs & co in the Philippines/DEI. Your only torpedo platforms are Catalinas and Vildebeests. Now, Catalinas begin with terrible pilots in NavT (they're PA, after all) and Vildebeests' guys ain't better. It's already quite a lot you have been able to hit multiple targets. Moreover, what do you expected? To kill outright the whole IJN with few, outdated, poorly manned aircraft?
Moreover, you do not specify which are your tactical settings in order to achieve results. Are you diligent in night/day NavS? Are your assets properly placed in AFs with sufficient air support, sufficient dimension and torpedoes loaded in HQ TOE? Leaders? etcetc.
Even with very good pilots (the onest starting on CVs TBs groups) Catalinas aren't a mass destruction weapon. Vildebeests are just cannon fodder if you do not have good pilots (ad you don't).


B) You cannot load troops in (R). I do not know where it is stated you can, if so, please provide the reference to the manual because it can be a confusing thing for beginners. Anyway, only unrestricted HQs enable troop to be embarked. Please note that HQs with the notation (R) are "restricted but not permanently", meaning that the units are restricted but they can become unrestricted paying proper PPs. The two extremes are HQs which are [R] ("permanently restricted", such as West Coast HQ [R]) and the ones with nothing noted ("unrestricted", such as the Southern Command HQ for Japan or Pacific Fleet for Allies).
No surprise you cannot load stuff.
Please note also that airlift is possible even for restricted units provided their destination target is a base under their restricted command. An example are Philipino troops which can be airlifted from, say, Manila to Mindanao even if they're permanently restricted.


C) Since you game since 1981 and you do not want experience shared by others, I won't add that maybe reading around in the forum and better understanding game mechanics is the key to comprehend what's happening in your game. 99% of the times, and that's my humble random estimation, reported "bugs" or "things not working" come from a poor understanding of game mechanics or wrong expectations.



The game has many flaws we all know. Nonetheless, it's a masterpiece and most of the stuff around on the map work properly.


Last, but not least: is the AI making something wrong, finally? Isn't the AI instead making something quite cool instead? It's nailing your stuff in PH and you are horrified by that: it's playing in a smart way, even if generally WITP AE isn't smart at all.




Good luck in the Pacific War if you decide to continue!

_____________________________

Francesco

(in reply to battleground)
Post #: 5
RE: What the heck???? - 12/1/2019 12:11:24 PM   
obvert


Posts: 13952
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
Well, it can happen. Not sure what the issue is though. Pearl is not supposed to be defendable at this stage. A better bet is to take anything still floating and flank out on day 2 to the SW and make for OZ.

In a PBEM I did set a day 2 strike at Pearl though and the Allies set up so well to strike back that I lost 3 CVs. That game is still going, with a complete AAR, now in Dec 45 if you're interested. (The Elephant Vanishes).

So it's not impossible, but it's unadvisable, to attempt a strike back at the KB outside Pearl. If he stays then send your CVs to the DEI and wreck havoc with security, knowing the KB is well behind you (and if your CAP was set well on days 2-4 he should have lost a bunch of good pilots and planes as well).

Playing the Allies though is about taking a tithe for the agony of 41-42, then getting some revenge in 43-45. It's a long game.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to ITAKLinus)
Post #: 6
RE: What the heck???? - 12/1/2019 3:14:56 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7339
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: St. Petersburg, Florida, USA
Status: offline
Clueless fools with no staying power and no inclination to overcome adversity don't deserve this game.

Good riddance.

p.s. Paragraph breaks are your friend.

< Message edited by HansBolter -- 12/1/2019 3:15:39 PM >


_____________________________

Hans


(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 7
RE: What the heck???? - 12/1/2019 4:25:59 PM   
adarbrauner

 

Posts: 1464
Joined: 11/3/2016
From: Zichron Yaaqov, Israel; Before, Treviso, Italy
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ITAKLinus

Last, but not least: is the AI making something wrong, finally? Isn't the AI instead making something quite cool instead? It's nailing your stuff in PH and you are horrified by that: it's playing in a smart way, even if generally WITP AE isn't smart at all.




(in reply to ITAKLinus)
Post #: 8
RE: What the heck???? - 12/1/2019 4:32:25 PM   
adarbrauner

 

Posts: 1464
Joined: 11/3/2016
From: Zichron Yaaqov, Israel; Before, Treviso, Italy
Status: offline
Every Japanese player must be double tripe careful when taking repetitive strikes at Pearl, it's very risky, and you've already nailed the oilers, I'd already be crying out, no oilers no more deep and prolonged KB sorties/operations....but this is AI, unable in any case to deep operations (cough, outside ironman Japan, cough)

(in reply to adarbrauner)
Post #: 9
RE: What the heck???? - 12/1/2019 11:13:37 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 14365
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Clueless fools with no staying power and no inclination to overcome adversity don't deserve this game.

Good riddance.

p.s. Paragraph breaks are your friend.

Yeah, the OP is ranting about a situation that he doesn't understand, but I think the Good Riddance comment is overly harsh. He had expectations based on long wargame experience and that set him up for disillusionment with this extraordinarily complex game.

We should encourage patience and perseverance for the first few starts at a GC. I think I did four starts before I was satisfied that I had handled things well enough to continue the rest of the GC.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 10
RE: What the heck???? - 12/2/2019 1:04:12 AM   
battleground

 

Posts: 97
Joined: 4/26/2009
Status: offline
I see a few of you did not read my entire post or comprehend it... shame on you. You should read before you
criticize...May the Haggis be in your shorts... always.

The 1st issue was 4 consecutive game starts (I can start a game 20 times before I play seriously to test how
the system works). On all 4 games (3 campaign and 1 Pearl Harbor dance over). In all 4 games the Japanese
AI held their fleet off Pearl and pounded it for 3 days. Just hitting you once is bad for business in the
harbor but 3 times (and multiple) attacks lowers the island by about 40 meters. This is not a bad thing. This
is what I do when playing the Japanese in this or Pacific War or WITP original or for that matter in Uncommon
Valor and War in the South Pacific, the first monster game of the Pacific. But historically Nagumo pulled the
fleet out after his dance with the USN and went home. In the 4 games I played he punched the card twice more
for a couple other dances. I was struggling to find a reason for it unless the AI does not have a "just do it
and go home" in it but takes advantage and pounds the harbor to scrap. The AI is very aggressive (not a bad
thing) but hitting the island for 3 days AND after having the carrier TF engaged by a large cruiser/DD fleet
AND after having its AOs blown apart by another fleet. It did not care but kept attacking. Generally after 3
days (hell, after 1 day) the air units on Pearl are just about gone. On the 3rd day the most fighters I had
total was 14. There does not appear to be a 'Nagumo has a feeling' and just rolls the dice once. There is about
nothing the US player can do in the Pacific but wait for the Pearl fight be over.

I spent the 3 days Pearl was getting pounded and initated the Plan 'Get the hell out of Dodge City' and try and
get as many ships out of Japanese air range as fast as I can and head them for India or Australia. That worked fine
but I notice (and did in Pacific War and WITP part 1) that the UK/Dutch pilots cannot hit the side of a barn with
their nose glued to it. It just does not happen for the first couple weeks. I can however, hit is AP/AKs in about
5-6 days after moving what I can save in air to Balikpapan and fort up there. I have seriously hurt the Japanese
support fleet this way. In this version even if I use PP to assign a Dutch unit to ABDA so I can at least move it
to another port. I believe in the rules it had 3 options. 1-Restricted (nobody comes home alive) 2-within an R HQ
you can spend PP but of course the Allied player has very little to spend and big ground units cost ALOT and 3-your
free to run as fast as you can. I can, of course, have units walk from one end of Java and Borneo by foot but it
makes it strange you cannot move ANBODY even when you ships and ground units are under the same command (Dutch or
ABDA) with all the 'coastal shipping' now in the game.

The one thing that set me off was when I got off WITP-AE was when I thought I could go back and run AITP-NOT AE but
found the installer had copied the new game OVER the other one. They are NOT the same game. They are cousins. Why
destroy one game with all my work put into it? What reason not to give WITP-AE its own file name? Thats when I pulled
WITP-AE off my computer so I can load WITP-NOT AE back in and move it to a safe place where its cousin does not try
and sneak in to kill it. I hate waste, especially waste of time.

Now for you knuckleheads with the condescending comments I hope a camel barfs in your socks. There was no reason to
be so snippy. I know their are always fanboys who will protect a company at all costs. I was banned from Paradox for
2 years fighting to make HOI-IV better when it was being designed. I helped some modders with suggestions or their
mods.

Now I am rummaging around boxes here and in my garage looking for the WITP-NOT AE to reinstall THEN I will reinstall
WITP-AE and continue my learning more about the game. I try and be nice to other posters. I said I played comp games
since 1981 but started with AH Civil War in 1961. I probably was playing DNO/UNT and even the entire SPI War in the
Pacific AND War in Europe combined on one huge metal wall plate with a thousand counter magnets before some of you
ever sipped on a baby bottle. Therefore I fart in your general direction.....

< Message edited by battleground -- 12/2/2019 1:07:35 AM >

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 11
RE: What the heck???? - 12/2/2019 1:17:41 AM   
demyansk


Posts: 2618
Joined: 2/20/2008
Status: offline
I bought the game and haven't even started a game ---- ouch, might never play the game

(in reply to battleground)
Post #: 12
RE: What the heck???? - 12/2/2019 1:29:23 AM   
CaptBeefheart


Posts: 2005
Joined: 7/4/2003
From: Seoul, Korea
Status: offline
Which scenario are you playing? I don't think I've seen the AI do more than one day of Pearl attacks. PBEM, on the other hand...

One possible workaround is to set "non-historic first turn." Set all of your fighters at Pearl to 100% zero-range CAP at different altitudes. That'll cause some pain for the Imperialists.

In the DEI, I have zero expectations to stop anything. That said, I'll put some Dutch bombers on 100 ft Naval attacks and they'll land a few bombs on different ships. It seems even low exp/low skill pilots, of which you have plenty in the beginning, can hit things from 100 feet. Catalinas will occasionally put torps into ships as well.

Cheers,
CB

_____________________________

Beer, because barley makes lousy bread.

(in reply to battleground)
Post #: 13
RE: What the heck???? - 12/2/2019 1:30:26 AM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9244
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: battleground

I see a few of you did not read my entire post or comprehend it...

So, the AI has a number of variants for Scen 1 (GC). The AI variant is chosen when the scenario is selected and saved as part of the save game. The variant that sticks around is in I think only 3 of the 11, so about a 15% chance this will happen.

If you restart a saved game, the results will play out pretty much the same every time. If you start a new scenario, you have a chance to get a different AI variant each time.

From what you wrote, it appears you started the same save game. If you did restart the scenario each time, you have incredible luck.

I'll not respond to your taunts except to say they won't get you too far in this forum. I would encourage you to tone it down a little if you really want help. Else, everyone will green button you and that will be it.

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to battleground)
Post #: 14
RE: What the heck???? - 12/2/2019 1:33:34 AM   
Anachro


Posts: 2319
Joined: 11/23/2015
From: The Coastal Elite
Status: offline
Yes, I was gonna ask that Pax. Is he replaying a save 4 times or did he start a new campaign four times? That's the question given the limitation of the scripts and how the variations are chosen.

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 15
RE: What the heck???? - 12/2/2019 1:54:07 AM   
battleground

 

Posts: 97
Joined: 4/26/2009
Status: offline
Oh dear. I thought I was being nice using just a feather duster on rude people. Thank you for your input. Gaming should
be fun and camaraderie building. I am not arrogant just a very experienced gamer. And I reran the scenario from the beginning
checking the options to look for anything screwy so I must be wildly lucky to have a rock land on my head 4 times. If you read
I am not insulting the game but circumstances that occurred in this one. As I said I may play a game 20 times for weeks to get
the mechanics in my head properly. If you read my post you would see what I was REALLY mad about was War in the Pacific-Admirals
Edition killing my War in the Pacific-Not Admirals Edition. I had many saved games and campaigns there that are gone. I am in
the process of reloading War in the Pacific-Not Admirals Edition now. I don't like condescending people or fanboys who rush to
judgement on a person. I did not attack anyone in any evil and insidious way but when shot at I shoot back strangely. Folks take
a complaint about the game personally and are darn snotty. I do not have to accept that quietly. Just because I only have 90 posts
on Matrix I am not a novice. Its because I have few problems with the games here. I started playing Gary's games like War in the
South Pacific on my Apple IIc. I may have 4200 posts on Paradox forum on HOI3/4 as Plasticpanzers even being banned for 2 years
arguing with them about HOIV creation (and I was right). The Pearl Harbor event in some mods in HOI3 was my idea. US BBs are sunk
as historically (even if you hide them in Connecticut) and are available in about 1944. That changes the entire Pacific strategic
war for the US in the Pacific in 1941. I also produced 1/6th scale armored vehicle kits for a number of years under the same name.
I am experienced in history and WWII and thats not being uppity, it just is. If you assume people who post here rarely are somehow
ignorant or taunting (you obviously don't watch Monty Python) you did not bother to find out first yourself just as they did not.
Hard to keep or gains ones respect that way. Try as they should have with a PM first.

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 16
RE: What the heck???? - 12/2/2019 2:16:10 AM   
Kull


Posts: 2029
Joined: 7/3/2007
From: El Paso, TX
Status: offline
My very first Green Button. Congratulations!

_____________________________


(in reply to battleground)
Post #: 17
RE: What the heck???? - 12/2/2019 3:05:09 AM   
battleground

 

Posts: 97
Joined: 4/26/2009
Status: offline
my bad, removed for universal peace and tranquility.




< Message edited by battleground -- 12/2/2019 9:18:19 AM >

(in reply to Kull)
Post #: 18
RE: What the heck???? - 12/2/2019 5:51:56 AM   
RogerJNeilson


Posts: 1222
Joined: 4/12/2012
From: Bedlington, Northumberland, UK
Status: offline
Respectfully the issue of your original AE being overwritten by AE Admirals is almost entirely due to a combination of Windows and you not selecting a different directory when you did the install. Every discrete game against opponents I do a new install to a different directory to avoid any of this. Leaving aside your complaint on the 'park outside PH' the main problem occurred in the interface between the computer and the chair.......

I am not sure you will get too far with this game if you get hung up on the first few days..... frankly whether or not PH is trashed its a waiting game for a year or so before you get to dish out the retribution on the Empire. Every game has limitations on its coverage of stuff.

I 'get' your frustration - I have the same with another game I have just purchased where there is no, repeat no support at all - arriving here with the attitude your post has is going to attract some flak from those who have been here a long time and have invested thousands of hours in this beauty.

Roger

< Message edited by Roger Neilson 3 -- 12/2/2019 5:53:31 AM >


_____________________________

An unplanned dynasty: Roger Neilson, Roger Neilson 11, Roger Neilson 3 previous posts 898+1515 + 1126 = 3539.....Currently in 1945 of my sole surviving PBEM which has been running since the game came out.

(in reply to battleground)
Post #: 19
RE: What the heck???? - 12/2/2019 5:59:40 AM   
witpqs


Posts: 24691
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Roger Neilson 3

Respectfully the issue of your original AE being overwritten by AE Admirals is almost entirely due to a combination of Windows and you not selecting a different directory when you did the install. Every discrete game against opponents I do a new install to a different directory to avoid any of this. Leaving aside your complaint on the 'park outside PH' the main problem occurred in the interface between the computer and the chair.......

I am not sure you will get too far with this game if you get hung up on the first few days..... frankly whether or not PH is trashed its a waiting game for a year or so before you get to dish out the retribution on the Empire. Every game has limitations on its coverage of stuff.

I 'get' your frustration - I have the same with another game I have just purchased where there is no, repeat no support at all - arriving here with the attitude your post has is going to attract some flak from those who have been here a long time and have invested thousands of hours in this beauty.

Roger

+1

quote:

...from those who have been here a long time...

...and they have helped many, many people.

_____________________________


(in reply to RogerJNeilson)
Post #: 20
RE: What the heck???? - 12/2/2019 9:16:46 AM   
battleground

 

Posts: 97
Joined: 4/26/2009
Status: offline
yeah.... I uninstalled WITP-AE then found my disc of WITP-NOT Admiral. I then reinstalled WITP-NOT Admiral then
changed the name of the file to Pacific War II then reinstalled WITP-AE. Now I have both games running. The WITP-AE
overwrote the WITP-NOT Admiral and wiped all my save games for years. That was why I was upset. Years of playing
gone. Now the two games are NOT the same. They should not both be in the same download to the same file. WITP-AE
should have downloaded into a new file with a new name and NOT just overwrite WITP-NOT Admiral. As I said they are
NOT the same game and should not be in the same file. I should not have to figure out they would not be.

Now I checked between the keyboard and my chair and it is working fine. I ran another test (all my games so far are
test and training games) and lo and behold the IJN sat off PH from the 7th thru the 9th. The only reason this time
they did not do worse is because I neglected to have the Indianapolis TF veer off and the IJN spend most of one day
eliminating the entire TF... My bad, but this was not a real game but a test of the game. So when I forgot to have
the Enterprise TF veer off the IJN moved NW and crushed it. My bad, but this was not a real game but a test of the
game. With a fresh download it is now 5 of 5 for 3 day attacks on Pearl. Put an X with a marker on a piece of
bread and keep flipping it and see how many times the X comes up compared to the unmarked side (low tech computing).
I blew thru the days just to watch the PH battle.

There appears to be no 'Nagumo has the sweats' factor so the IJN comes, throws a party on the 7th, and goes home but
instead sets up a carnival and turns the US Pac Fleet into scrap for 3 days. In my post I said a 3 day attack is
not bad, I would do it and have playing both the US and IJN hovered for days pounding a helpless opponent. Good AI
to keep attacking. 5 out of 5 times is reason for concern. Of course I could just blame Win-7. I wonder how many
folks actually play as the US being playing Japan is so fun with all the bells and whistles. I love playing the US
but the same outcome 5 times in a row?

My comment on the Malaya air attacks is the same as always. Multiple daylight attacks by the Brits from Singapore
against the invasion fleet and about 11 times in 3 days I get planes thru (or actually the AI did). Not one hit. I
have never had the UK do any damage to that fleet at the beginning. Not a PC, nor an AK hit and certainly not a
hit on a naval vessel.

On ground units it does say that for R restricted HQ you have to pay PP to reassign them (or it is worded badly) to
a non-restricted HQ to move them by boat. No go. On 3 different islands I spend all the Political Points for 3
different units of different sizes and no go. The Dutch are doomed to die... unless they can walk across water.
All those paddle-wheel (and yes there were) coastal ships just take their chances when I get out of Dodge move them
to India or Australia (closest)to save them.

Now I finish the report of my followup to my first post to explain what was happening. The loss of YEARS of saved
games from WITP-NOT Admiral is what upset me greatly. The PH was just a report on what I thought was something wrong.
My comments about the Malaya UK air was true of the original WITP-NOT Admiral and WITP-AE. The UK does doodie to the
IJN other than provide training for their air units and hours of laughter for their fleet.

< Message edited by battleground -- 12/2/2019 9:19:03 AM >

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 21
RE: What the heck???? - 12/2/2019 10:07:44 AM   
Anachro


Posts: 2319
Joined: 11/23/2015
From: The Coastal Elite
Status: offline
I'm really not sure how they can install to the same location given that the default Witp AE install folder is called "War in the Pacific Admiral's Edition." Are you telling me that the original game, the one without the AE moniker, also installs to a folder called War in the Pacific Admiral's Edition. I'll take your word for it, but it does seem strange to me. That said, I have never played or installed the original WitP. I seriously doubt that saves for the original WitP would be in the same file location since the saves for WitP AE are stored in the game folder (the one with the AE moniker) and not in a third location. But this is all speculation on my part.

I'm not sure what to say about your experience with the AI at Pearl, since I've had many variations of the first few turns run, both including what you describe and not including it. Also, regarding Malaya, even if bombers get through, there are multiple factors affecting their ability to hit enemy ships. If they were chewed up by CAP along the way, their accuracy is greatly reduced. If they have low naval bombing skill, their accuracy is greatly reduced, if the enemy ships are faster, their accuracy is greatly reduced. If you are attempting to hit ships with levels bombers...their accuracy is greatly reduced. That said, I have had great success hitting ships with British bombers in the early days of '42 off of Malaya, particularly if you make use of your TB's and DBs like the Vildebeests. Trust me, those Vildebeests can do a lot of damage to enemy transports, especially if there's no enemy CAP. I'm really not seeing your problem.

Some units are static in their HQs and cannot be moved. Other's can be bought out.

< Message edited by Anachro -- 12/2/2019 10:09:13 AM >

(in reply to battleground)
Post #: 22
RE: What the heck???? - 12/2/2019 10:36:50 AM   
Ian R

 

Posts: 2299
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Sydney
Status: online
Don't bother feeding the troll.

_____________________________

"You may find that having is not so nearly pleasing a thing as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true."
- Cdr Spock


Ian R

(in reply to Anachro)
Post #: 23
RE: What the heck???? - 12/2/2019 11:02:07 AM   
Barb


Posts: 2500
Joined: 2/27/2007
From: Bratislava, Slovakia
Status: offline
Battleground - please, calm down a little, take a breath...

AI punishing Pearl Harbor - as said out of 11 AI Scripts being picked up at the start of the scenario (first time opening, not first End Turn) about 3 will result in the KB hanging around longer then 1 day. Try Starting a fresh scenario (not Load saved one).

Malaya air attacks - need to know exact details, but with old aircraft crewed by weak/medi-core pilots you are not going to hit anything. Train your pilots, protect the bombers by escorts, try bombing @2000ft, even those Vildebeest won't hit much with torpedoes, but might do better with bombs. The hit rolls are pretty complicated from Weather, Naval Skill of squadron leader, NavB/NavT skill of pilots, pilot fatigue, pilot morale, flak, evading target, damage to the plane making run, altitude, accuracy of the bombs/torpedoes, nothing to say about the Nate/Oscar/Zero that just massacred 3/4 of your buddies on the way in and are hot on your tail is really adding to the pilot concentration to aim precisely...

Restricted units - You are overall commander with some political responsibilities to multiple national governments and interests. Dutch wont just run from their only remaining territory, nor Philippine Army wont load ships for 4 year vacation in Australia! They are there to defend their "homeland" to the last drop of their blood. You can do "SirRobin" with every ship, plenty of air units and some ground units even without spending PPs on them just to deny Japanese few victory points, but keep in mind you are making it to Japanese much easier to conquer what they do need most.
For freeing units to be able to load to ships, pick HQs that are not restricted (do not have (R) in any form) - there is aplenty of them.

WITP:AE installation folder - I do believe it can be altered in the initial setup, I actually have two installations side by side and many players here have several more (to allow variations in betas/mods/arts).
Also if you bought "old" WITP then you should also have a digital download available on the matrixgames site.

< Message edited by Barb -- 12/2/2019 11:03:33 AM >


_____________________________


(in reply to Ian R)
Post #: 24
RE: What the heck???? - 12/2/2019 11:41:48 AM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7339
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: St. Petersburg, Florida, USA
Status: offline
The Dutch are doomed, but they CAN walk across water.

It's called AIR TRANSPORT. They have loads of flying boats that can shuttle their restricted units between their own bases.

As for the impotence of the British air force, Barb provides a detailed response. Try looking at the experience and skill levels of your pilots. They can't be expected to hit much of anything until you train them. The Allies aren't supposed to be able to stop the Japanese juggernaut in the beginning.

Asking for help in understanding the whys and hows will get far better results than RANTING against the OBVIOUS STUPIDITY of something that isn't stupid and you don't understand.

Once again, I'll make the obvious statement that paragraph breaks are your friend.

I haven't bothered to read half of your run on rants due to the text density.

< Message edited by HansBolter -- 12/2/2019 11:44:47 AM >


_____________________________

Hans


(in reply to Barb)
Post #: 25
RE: What the heck???? - 12/2/2019 12:10:33 PM   
fcooke

 

Posts: 580
Joined: 6/18/2002
From: Boston, London, Hoboken, now Warwick, NY
Status: offline
+1

Concentrate the Dutch as much as you can. Actually concentrate everything as much as you can. Rest/train everything as much as you can. The DEI can be painful for the IJN but the fatigue/exp levels of the Allies out there in the first few days is horrific. I tend to use the B-17s for NS and every flying boat as transport. Hide the fighters until they are well rested and concentrate them when/where you think you can really hurt an airstrike. Look for little invasions and use concentrated Allied naval forces to pounce. Little victories. RN has good exp - use it against weaker forces. You are not constricted to real life stand and die policies in the game for the most part.

As for bad performance of Brit air out of Singers, I think in real life they managed to sink one transport. They fought valiantly, but the odds were stacked against them. And as mentioned before, just because you managed to attack does not mean you will get a hit. The hits on Bismarck were incredibly lucky because she was designed to defend against faster planes. The 'Channel Dash' was successful right next to the UK (except for those mines at the end).

This is generally a very polite forum. Continued rants will not work in your best interests if you want to play the game.

Regards,
Frank

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 26
RE: What the heck???? - 12/2/2019 2:00:27 PM   
obvert


Posts: 13952
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

The Dutch are doomed, but they CAN walk across water.

It's called AIR TRANSPORT. They have loads of flying boats that can shuttle their restricted units between their own bases.

As for the impotence of the British air force, Barb provides a detailed response. Try looking at the experience and skill levels of your pilots. They can't be expected to hit much of anything until you train them. The Allies aren't supposed to be able to stop the Japanese juggernaut in the beginning.

Asking for help in understanding the whys and hows will get far better results than RANTING against the OBVIOUS STUPIDITY of something that isn't stupid and you don't understand.

Once again, I'll make the obvious statement that paragraph breaks are your friend.

I haven't bothered to read half of your run on rants due to the text density.


+1

And the repetition. He doesn't want help, just attention.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 27
RE: What the heck???? - 12/2/2019 2:10:43 PM   
Dili

 

Posts: 4588
Joined: 9/10/2004
Status: offline
I don't understand how can a game is installed on top of another unless you gave the same directory.


PS: there is something called backups that you should do often.

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 28
RE: What the heck???? - 12/2/2019 2:23:31 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 24691
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili

I don't understand how can a game is installed on top of another unless you gave the same directory.


I know, when I've installed WITP-AE the default folder name was always different than the default folder name for WITP, including less than 2 weeks ago, BTW. When I read that I figured he just made a mistake.

_____________________________


(in reply to Dili)
Post #: 29
RE: What the heck???? - 12/2/2019 3:45:04 PM   
Trugrit


Posts: 775
Joined: 7/14/2014
From: North Carolina
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili

I don't understand how can a game is installed on top of another unless you gave the same directory.


I know, when I've installed WITP-AE the default folder name was always different than the default folder name for WITP, including less than 2 weeks ago, BTW. When I read that I figured he just made a mistake.


Yes, maybe just a mistake he made.

I’ve been following this thread with some interest.

I have an interest not just in the game but in the history of the game as well.
Actually I’m interested in the history of all computer games.

It occurred to me that, back in the day, if installing WITP-AE was overwriting
WITP and all the WITP game saves there would have been one hell of a stink.

After all, there were PBEM games and AAR’s up and running and if any of them,
or even one of them, were wiped out I’m sure Matrix was going to hear about it.

The forum for WITP is still available on this site.
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tt.asp?forumid=10
It can be searched.

There are some familiar names there. Mike Solli, Barb, Kull, witpqs, HansBolter,
Roger Neilson II, crsutton, Canoerebel, John 3rd, Alfred and others.
They have left their tracks in the sand.

Back then there was a transition of players from WITP to WITP-AE.

You have to go back to around December of 2009 when the transition was taking place
to find players who had both War in the Pacific and War in the Pacific Admiral’s Edition
Running at the same time. It was fun to look. There are some.

Feinder:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=2333301

Misconduct:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=2307045

Oldguard1970:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=2307683

jomni:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=2332898

There was no concern back then that I can find.

So, did Matrix decide years later to wipe WITP off players computers and replace it with WITP-AE?
I’ve searched for this but I can not find any other player this has happened to.
I say this did not happen.

Did Bill Gates play a hand. Did Windows 10 decide to wipe out the program.
Turns out that can happen.
https://www.howtogeek.com/243581/windows-10-may-delete-your-programs-without-asking/

Once again I can’t find any other player who says Windows 10 wiped out the WITP or
WITP-AE programs and saves.

So if this did happen I don’t think WITP-AE is to blame.
There is a Windows restore program so you don’t have to search your garage.

As for the AI mercilessly attacking Pearl Harbor?

If that runs you completely out of this game then on the He-Man Testosterone war gamer
scale that puts you a notch below Granny Clampett.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 30
Page:   [1] 2 3   next >   >>
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> What the heck???? Page: [1] 2 3   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.157