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Setting Axis TOE - 11/22/2019 2:39:52 PM   
king171717


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I followed this for my TOE set up

Set all units to 20% MAX TOE.
Select Germany
Select on map units only
Set all infantry to 70%
Set all infantry above 80mrl to 100% and refit.
Set all special infantry (air landing, mountain) to 100% and refit
Set all infantry below 75 morale to 20% and refit.
Set all active HQs to 100%
Set security troops at 100% and refit
Set RHG HQs to 50%.
Set all motorised infantry to 100% and refit
Set all armoured formations to 100%
Set 2-4 90 morale armoured formations to refit, usually I chose some from PG 3 and PG 4.
Set all pioneers to 100%
Set all armoured SUs to 100%
Set non LW AA SUs with AFVs and already decent TOE to 100%

Now I also add FBD 1-4 to TOE 100% I also put the airbase to 100% TOE

But I was wondering why art and con are set at 20%? I set all the art with high morale to 100 and all the very high art as well.

Also another noob question, when moving your Panzer divisions across area's u have taken in the previous turns, do they lose tanks (breakdowns etc) the same rate as over Russian held land?
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RE: Setting Axis TOE - 11/22/2019 4:25:42 PM   
Telemecus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: king171717
But I was wondering why art and con are set at 20%? I set all the art with high morale to 100 and all the very high art as well.


Artillery as well as other SUs need arms points to make their replacements. If you did not choke their ToE you would spend all your arms points on artillery replacements. Then when blizzard comes and you lose disproportionately many rifle squads you will not have any arms points left to replace them. Your rifle divisions will be ready and not depleted if your artillery support units are missing artillery, they will not be without riflemen. Rifle squads are much cheaper to make - but with zero arms points you will not be making any. So save up as many arms points as possible for blizzard to FIRST replace your missing rifle squads in your infantry division after it is over, and once that is overcome THEN put your artillery to 100% ToE again in 1942. It can be a good idea to not put all to 100% in one go but to progressively start with your best morale ones in 1942. In general most would prefer every arms point going to first building back your infantry divisions after the blizzard then to go to artillery support units (not artillery first no matter how high their morale or xp).

On super heavy artillery beware that replacements are particularly expensive in arms points terms and may not be worth it compared to lower calibre artillery. Certainly in the real war they were one shot wonders for battles like the siege of Sevastopol - but no German general put their replacements ahead of the other things they wanted.

Also remember many artillery units withdraw - and you certainly will not be wanting to put replacements into a unit that is leaving

quote:

ORIGINAL: king171717
Set all units to 20% MAX TOE.
Select Germany

Your allies have separate manpower pools. You will be short of German and Finnish manpower but not Rumanian or Hungarian - and you will have lots and lots of Italians and Slovakians. So I would say for their infantry units keep them at 100% - you have no need to conserve their manpower. When Rumania swaps sides you mean even be glad there are fewer Rumanians!

quote:

ORIGINAL: king171717
Set all special infantry (air landing, mountain) to 100% and refit

Airlanding is one of those units that withdraws in 1942. One of the mountain/jaeger divisions withdraws in 1941. Try to keep them as close to but above 75% as possible - not 100%.

quote:

ORIGINAL: king171717
Set all infantry below 75 morale to 20% and refit.

Refit only prioritises one set of units over another. If everything is on refit then nothing is. I would keep refit off for these units.

quote:

ORIGINAL: king171717
Set security troops at 100% and refit

For similar reasons do not keep these on refit. Refit also prioritises who gets the best newest equipment - it should not be going to your security.

quote:

ORIGINAL: king171717
Set all motorised infantry to 100% and refit
Set all armoured formations to 100%

Might not want to for Hungarian motorised, 900 Lehr, 10Panzer, Das Reich and LAH for a time before they withdraw.

quote:

ORIGINAL: king171717
Set all pioneers to 100%

There are a handful of withdrawing German ones - keep them on 20%

quote:

ORIGINAL: king171717
Set all armoured SUs to 100%

I would not if you are short of tanks in your pool - and the Germans and others usually will be short of tanks. Putting them into support units means they will not go to your on=map Panzer divisions then.
The Finnish tank support units withdraws - so I would say keep it at 20% and not give it any replacements for when it leaves. Keep them in the pool for when the Finnish Tank division arrives.

quote:

ORIGINAL: king171717
Set non LW AA SUs with AFVs and already decent TOE to 100%

Again look at your pools - if and when you have very few AFVs left you may prefer them going to your on-map units first, or to the very best support units first. Putting them all in 100% will then mean none are at 100% and they are as likely to go to bad units as good ones.

quote:

ORIGINAL: king171717
I also put the airbase to 100% TOE

I would suggest putting recon bases on 50% - you will not have a lack of Axis recon anyway and little need for supply/support/fuel/ammo on them. The recon airabse of 11A withdraws, so certainly do not want to see manpower going there.

quote:

ORIGINAL: king171717
Also another noob question, when moving your Panzer divisions across area's u have taken in the previous turns, do they lose tanks (breakdowns etc) the same rate as over Russian held land?

On a per hex basis no. Movement attrition is related to movement points. And as moving into a hex you already controlled at the start of the turns takes less movement points, you will have less movement attrition.

< Message edited by Telemecus -- 11/22/2019 6:14:43 PM >


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RE: Setting Axis TOE - 11/24/2019 1:40:33 PM   
king171717


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Thanks for the breakdown!
I followed your changes. thanks for the explanations as well!

Once you start changing the TOE and setting it, it doesnt seem so daunting anymore.

I also set all the AT battalions to 100% as the russians have so many AFV's.

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RE: Setting Axis TOE - 11/24/2019 2:19:16 PM   
Telemecus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: king171717
I also set all the AT battalions to 100% as the russians have so many AFV's.


Beware that in 1942 they have an OOB upgrade and change from Towed guns to AFVs, so may want to change when they do.


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RE: Setting Axis TOE - 12/27/2019 5:20:33 PM   
Laits


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To my mind this approach is rational but very systematic.
I have a different organization based on the "effort" notion. For instance, if I want to achieve a succes with my AGC, I put almost all the TOE of this army group to 100%. The rest will be at 75 or 85 (or less), depending on my capabilities and the ennemy pressure.
The key is to make a choice and to mark an effort on the right place, at the right moment. It's not always easy to do.

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RE: Setting Axis TOE - 12/27/2019 5:38:46 PM   
Telemecus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Laits

To my mind this approach is rational but very systematic.
I have a different organization based on the "effort" notion. For instance, if I want to achieve a succes with my AGC, I put almost all the TOE of this army group to 100%. The rest will be at 75 or 85 (or less), depending on my capabilities and the ennemy pressure.
The key is to make a choice and to mark an effort on the right place, at the right moment. It's not always easy to do.


Yes - indeed recomend you see the guide by EwaldvonKleist here https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4601253 where he describes it as in effect extra reinforcements. Just beware that reinforcements to higher experienced/morale units themselves become higher morale/experienced (due to partial dilution), so by putting them in lesser units you are making the army worse off. See as another example http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=4708381

As always the trade off is between tactical needs (which I believe is what you are describing) and global capabilities (which is what I think was previously being described). The skill and talent of play is to know where to strike the balance.

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RE: Setting Axis TOE - 12/31/2019 8:49:53 AM   
Laits


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The two posts you refer to give very useful information (a a lot of figures!!). As you said, it's a matter of balance.
However, I have difficulties to fully understand the "partial dilution ". Do you mean that giving more reinforcements to elite units than to normal divisions will increase the morale of all your forces in the long term ? It seems weird to me.
Sorry if it looks like a dumb question.

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RE: Setting Axis TOE - 12/31/2019 12:52:59 PM   
Telemecus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Laits
"partial dilution ". Do you mean that giving more reinforcements to elite units than to normal divisions will increase the morale of all your forces in the long term ? It seems weird to me.
Sorry if it looks like a dumb question.


Yes basically. And not a dumb question at all. At least I have asked it myself

If you put 100 men with morale 70 together with 100 men with morale 90, you might expect the morale of the 200 to be 80 (full dilution) - but in WitE1 it is higher, something like 83 say (not full dilution).

Why they chose this? I can only suppose that the veterans teach or enthuse the recruits on the job - so the same recruits are better with veterans than with other recruits. Or that their is some unit morale which is not just a sum of the individuals. But I guess only pyshcologists or military practioners can say how valid these possibilities are?

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RE: Setting Axis TOE - 1/1/2020 2:30:19 PM   
Rekm41


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Happy New Year, How does one set the morale etc to greater than. eg asks to set infantry above 80% morale how do you do that?
Thanks

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RE: Setting Axis TOE - 1/1/2020 2:50:11 PM   
Telemecus


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Happy new year!

Do you mean how to select them in commanders report?

If so then to select below 80 morale then
1) Click on 1
2) Type 80 in the pop up box
3) Click the tick




If you want a setting for only above 80, do it for all, then filter for under 80 and set them to something different as you prefer.

Alternatively click on the column heading morale to sort by morale and adjust the setting directly for each unit above 80.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Telemecus -- 1/1/2020 2:52:20 PM >


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RE: Setting Axis TOE - 1/1/2020 2:54:25 PM   
Rekm41


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Thanks and yes under commanders report, but how would I get units with morale greater than 80 for example? I see how to do below the levels but not above.



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RE: Setting Axis TOE - 1/1/2020 3:10:55 PM   
Telemecus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rekm41
Thanks and yes under commanders report, but how would I get units with morale greater than 80 for example? I see how to do below the levels but not above.


No filter for above - but see comment below screenshot in my previous post for a workaround.


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RE: Setting Axis TOE - 1/1/2020 4:44:49 PM   
Rekm41


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Thanks again, I missed that comment below your screenshot.

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RE: Setting Axis TOE - 1/3/2020 4:00:49 AM   
Light4bettor

 

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Hi, new player here and I just began learning this complex game. My question is about TOE. If a TOE (I think this stands for Table of Organization and Equipment) is set to 50 percent, does this mean that replacements will only be given to that unit if that unit's numbers fall below 50 percent.

As an example to illustrate what I am thinking, if my hypothetical division's authorized TOE is 100 rifle squads and 20 machine guns teams, and I set my particular division's TOE to 50 percent, then the division will only begin to receive replacements when either the rifle squads fall below 50 squads or the machine gun teams fall below 10. I know I may be misunderstanding this, but please give me guidance.

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RE: Setting Axis TOE - 1/3/2020 5:43:27 AM   
king171717


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Light4bettor

Hi, new player here and I just began learning this complex game. My question is about TOE. If a TOE (I think this stands for Table of Organization and Equipment) is set to 50 percent, does this mean that replacements will only be given to that unit if that unit's numbers fall below 50 percent.

As an example to illustrate what I am thinking, if my hypothetical division's authorized TOE is 100 rifle squads and 20 machine guns teams, and I set my particular division's TOE to 50 percent, then the division will only begin to receive replacements when either the rifle squads fall below 50 squads or the machine gun teams fall below 10. I know I may be misunderstanding this, but please give me guidance.


Yes, whatever you set the TOE when it drops below it will began to receive replacements. Also your production will affect what equipment is limited in what divisions. (panzer 3J in a panzer division) or lack of manpower for rifle squads.

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RE: Setting Axis TOE - 1/4/2020 12:18:40 AM   
Light4bettor

 

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King, thanks much for your reply. I don't completely understand the ideas behind your original post but I have some questions about it.

1)What is the logic behind keeping infantry divisions with under 80 morale at a TOE in of 70%? (I understand we are using a TOE setting percentage to direct replacements to our best units, but doesn't allowing our infantry divisions that are under 80 morale only a 70% TOE to be potentially at a reduced combat power?)

2) If we keep our under 80 moral infantry divisions at a 70% TOE, then why are the security divisions allowed a 100 percent TOE and refit status? ( I'm guessing because of partisans?) Thanks.

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RE: Setting Axis TOE - 1/4/2020 1:39:30 AM   
56ajax


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For the Axis, direct your limited replacements to the best units.

Partisans dont do much (except infuriate me)

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RE: Setting Axis TOE - 1/4/2020 2:46:00 AM   
king171717


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Hey Light!

Yes they do get weaker as the campaign goes on. But I want my higher morale units to get the manpower and equipment. Think in terms of giving your best troops the most support.

I have changed security divisions to 20 and no refit. Also units that are watching cities get there TOE reduce to 20. I usually pull back badly worn divisions and set them to these duties as well.

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RE: Setting Axis TOE - 1/4/2020 12:08:39 PM   
Telemecus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Light4bettor
then why are the security divisions allowed a 100 percent TOE

A security division at 100% ToE and split to three regiments can garrison three cities. A security division at 20% ToE cannot even garrison one.

Security are your cheapest unit (arms points) and least manpower intensive (2.2 times less men needed) for doing garrisons - and you do not have enough of them. If you do not garrison a city with 1.9k security troops say, then you will need 4k troops at least from one of your front line combat divisions to do it instead - and they will be there with all their expensive guns and tanks too!

Bottom line. Better to fill out all the security units you do have which are usually not enough. Every man less in security means you need to pull out 2.2 men from your front line combat units to do it instead.


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RE: Setting Axis TOE - 1/4/2020 3:47:20 PM   
king171717


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Light4bettor
then why are the security divisions allowed a 100 percent TOE

A security division at 100% ToE and split to three regiments can garrison three cities. A security division at 20% ToE cannot even garrison one.

Security are your cheapest unit (arms points) and least manpower intensive (2.2 times less men needed) for doing garrisons - and you do not have enough of them. If you do not garrison a city with 1.9k security troops say, then you will need 4k troops at least from one of your front line combat divisions to do it instead - and they will be there with all their expensive guns and tanks too!

Bottom line. Better to fill out all the security units you do have which are usually not enough. Every man less in security means you need to pull out 2.2 men from your front line combat units to do it instead.


Nice point of breaking them up and using them at full.

I have beening using the RU and Hungary units to do all the southern cities. Then all my security divisions go into the large urban centres. Then regiments of german units watch the rest of the smaller cities.

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RE: Setting Axis TOE - 1/4/2020 5:11:34 PM   
Laits


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The axis allies also help. The weak italian infantery division have the manpower but very bad equipment. You can use them for garrison duty instead of let them be slaugthered by the soviet in the frontline.

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RE: Setting Axis TOE - 1/12/2020 5:33:05 AM   
Vifee

 

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I actually think Italians are some of the more useful allies, their high manpower lets them replace their losses after they get mauled by the Russians, those Italian units are a lot easier to keep at 90 TOE than the Hungarians or god forbid the Finns.

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RE: Setting Axis TOE - 1/12/2020 7:38:33 AM   
Laits


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You're right. Some allies are more reliable but have less manpower and for the Italian it's the opposite.
In the two cases they have to be managed very carefully. Using them for garrison duty saves some manpower in the long term and allows a better use of German units.


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RE: Setting Axis TOE - 1/12/2020 4:15:33 PM   
king171717


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Light4bettor
then why are the security divisions allowed a 100 percent TOE

A security division at 100% ToE and split to three regiments can garrison three cities. A security division at 20% ToE cannot even garrison one.

Security are your cheapest unit (arms points) and least manpower intensive (2.2 times less men needed) for doing garrisons - and you do not have enough of them. If you do not garrison a city with 1.9k security troops say, then you will need 4k troops at least from one of your front line combat divisions to do it instead - and they will be there with all their expensive guns and tanks too!

Bottom line. Better to fill out all the security units you do have which are usually not enough. Every man less in security means you need to pull out 2.2 men from your front line combat units to do it instead.



I have found this very useful to get Axis allies to the front lines in the blizzard.

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