Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

RE: 1st PvP+1st AAR, Shalkai (Axis) vs GamerDad (Soviet), v1.12.0x

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> After Action Reports >> RE: 1st PvP+1st AAR, Shalkai (Axis) vs GamerDad (Soviet), v1.12.0x Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: 1st PvP+1st AAR, Shalkai (Axis) vs GamerDad (Soviet... - 11/24/2019 6:08:50 AM   
Shalkai

 

Posts: 231
Joined: 8/9/2018
Status: offline
Axis Turn 3 Play Notes part A

Soviet T2 is done, and at first glance it looks like GamerDad is still falling back and conserving forces. AGN and AGC panzers are mostly low on fuel; two corps HQs were one hex too far from railhead so their divs are really low on gas. I donít mind too much since my units got so far last turn. AGS panzers are in better shape, and most mobile divs have 35-40 MP. Overextending is definitely an error on my part - my understanding was that supply happened after rail conversion, but thatís not the case as I found out from forums. I need to keep all HQ within range of 100% converted rail.

I have prep work to do before scouting flights. From what little I can see before reconnaissance is done, GamerDad's defensive lines are probably about 3-6 hexes behind last turnís positions. AGS should have a chance to make a pocket around Proskurov. I expect AGC and AGN are going to be mostly consolidation this turn.

A very quiet Soviet Turn 2 according to logs and reports. About 30 interdiction attacks while he pulled back are it for battle reports. No recons, no attacks even by surrounded units, minimal attrition losses. 80% or so of my interdictions caused MP losses so Iíll leave air settings as they are. The trickle of plane and ground unit losses caused is nice, and keeping 10-15 units from getting to their preferred destination is nicer.

My air units are in nice shape. Only a dozen or so with fatigue over 15%. About a dozen others have high damaged totals (mostly tac and ftr, the cost of my interdicts). Some superfluous recon with low exp/morale and one beat up fighter Stab are sent to reserve to recover/train. Ground units are also in good shape. A few INF below 75 morale, a few Panzer below 85% ToE.

Looking at ToE, for 36 AP I could move 2nd Army from AGC to AGN, which would almost get AGC out of HQ overload. I may do that later, depending on how important HQBU actions might be.

A-HA! New supply rules and path changes are now clearer. The light dawned when I looked for a good spot to move an HQ to. First hex, off rail MP: 26 off rail range:18. Adjacent hex, off rail MP: 26 off rail range 23. Which means that game will select a worse supply path, over the 20 hex barrier, and cripple supply deliveries. If it was me, Iíd add a couple lines of code so it looked for lowest MP path of range 25 or under.

The Soviets have abandoned Vitebsk; the defensive line is about another 4 hexes east. AGN infantry streams forward, while panzers advance slightly to claim more territory but donít get into any battles. AGC is the same story. With the Soviet pullback, both AGN and AGC advances are limited by supply reach, not enemy defenses. From what I can see of fort levels, Soviet entrenchment progress is better in this beta - Iím glad to see this. V1.11 fortification increases seemed way too slow to me.

Switching south, I move some SUs from Rumanian High Command to 3rd and 4th Rumanian Armies. A little combat in Ukraine but not much. Most of the screen units around Proskurov were just fort.zones Two RDs are isolated by panzers in Proskurov itself. III Panzer Corps pushes into the land bridge between Zhitomir and Vinnitsa. Axis forces advance the front line up to a hundred miles in the northern Ukraine.





Attachment (1)

(in reply to Shalkai)
Post #: 31
RE: 1st PvP+1st AAR, Shalkai (Axis) vs GamerDad (Soviet... - 11/24/2019 6:12:36 AM   
Shalkai

 

Posts: 231
Joined: 8/9/2018
Status: offline
Axis Turn 3 Play Notes part B

Recon flights show Fort3 hexes adjacent to Odessa. Taking the port is going to be REALLY hard I suspect. On the plus side, the Soviets have given up a lot of land and Axis forces are 60% of the distance to Kiev and the Dnepr river on turn 3.






Attachment (1)

(in reply to Shalkai)
Post #: 32
RE: 1st PvP+1st AAR, Shalkai (Axis) vs GamerDad (Soviet... - 11/24/2019 6:28:29 AM   
Shalkai

 

Posts: 231
Joined: 8/9/2018
Status: offline
Axis Turn 3 Play Notes part C

Army Group North started the turn scratching their heads and wondering 'Which way did they go?' Spotter pilots find some of them east of Pskov, a few others heading toward Narva. I had to decide which way to focus on. As you can see on the map, I chose Pskov. Panzer units could have gone towards Tallinn, but the Gulf of Finland coast has little strategic value. I want railhead to be advancing east or northeast, not north. Panzers driven up that way would be quickly low on fuel, plus facing nasty defensive terrain. Tallinn can wait a couple turns until some infantry can leg it there.

Pskov, on the other hand, unlocks Novgorod, which in turn unlocks all the possible ways to take or isolate Leningrad. Accordingly, most of my panzers end up in the Pskov region, even if they did some exploring on roundabout drives to capture territory. Once I get close to Pskov, further recon detects only a few defenders. There might be more I can't see, but that's something for next turn.





Attachment (1)

(in reply to Shalkai)
Post #: 33
RE: 1st PvP+1st AAR, Shalkai (Axis) vs GamerDad (Soviet... - 11/24/2019 6:39:48 AM   
Shalkai

 

Posts: 231
Joined: 8/9/2018
Status: offline
Axis Turn 3 Play Notes part D

AGN and AGS are done, so back to the middle. Neither of those Army Groups needed a HQBU so I can use my AP for one BU and reassign 2nd Army, or two BUs. Now that I know what the supply path count is doing, I wonít leave any corps HQs Ďa bridge too farí this turn, so itíll probably be the first that I choose. Iíll decide in a bit after I get done advancing units.

I got too enthusiastic marching all the infantry forward, and forgot to leave a garrison in Minsk. Unforced error. I had to drive Lehr brigade back from Vitebsk, which gives Minsk a partial garrison at least. Usually I have shift-K Garrison toggle turned on, but I didnít. On the plus side, Vitebsk is mine, and all of PzGroup 2 and 3 are poised to start the Battle of Smolensk on 10July41, right on schedule.

Rail pool is set at 10%, and thatís enough to move most of my reinforcements forward. I can easily wait an extra turn rather than spend AP to increase it. The two divisions marching east towards the Vistula are issued extra socks. Maybe theyíll find an empty train next week.

I did end up using 36 AP to assign 2nd Army to AGN. AGC is still 5CP beyond command capacity, but I can fix that by moving another three divisions next turn.

Despite the late hour, I try and do all the tidying up and get the turn sent off. Iíve been paying more attention to HQ placement during moves so there should be less errors and out of range units this turn.

Good thing I checked unit supply more carefully - four panzers were isolated (either Iím not reading supply rules right, or there are still some glitches in this beta). Problem is around Vitebsk. LVII PzK HQ is at 75,50 with 26 MP and 18 hexes to rail. I moved it to 76,49 so now it is 29 MP, 19 hexes. Still doesnít fix problem - the three divisions are 3, 4, and 5 hexes away - but showing off-rail range as 27, 28, and 27 hexes. Last time I checked, 19+3 was 22, not 27. I ended up not finishing turn that night, Instead, I asked Telemecus about this, and also posted on the boards. [update: this is a combination bug plus change, from what I understand according to the forums. Hex range to rail is now calculated along lowest MP path (change), and the 25 hex isolation limit is being applied to combat units not just HHQ (bug). The change calculating hexes along lowest MP path has the greatest effect in mixed terrain, as the supply path zigzags to go through clear terrain hexes.]

After finding out more on the supply issues, I move around a couple of panzers so they aren't isolated from supply, then deal with end of turn stuff. Rail done, air units moved up, refit/ready set, all but 1 AP used. Here's a look at the north half of AGC sector.





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Shalkai -- 11/24/2019 7:13:57 AM >

(in reply to Shalkai)
Post #: 34
RE: 1st PvP+1st AAR, Shalkai (Axis) vs GamerDad (Soviet... - 11/24/2019 6:50:14 AM   
Shalkai

 

Posts: 231
Joined: 8/9/2018
Status: offline
Axis Turn 3 Play Notes part E

I didn't realize this while I was actually playing Turn 3, but here is another shot of the same area, this time in Rail Mode. ['r' key] This mode is a lot easier than trying to hover over hexes and check range and MP stats. All the dark shaded areas, including the city of Vitebsk, are over 25 hexes from railhead. Under 12.02 that means any unit in these dark shaded areas is in a supply dead zone and will get nothing. Anyone using v12.02 should check unit placement carefully each turn. Morvael intends to fix things in his next patch but we don't know when we'll get an update, so use care until that happens is all I can advise.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Shalkai)
Post #: 35
RE: 1st PvP+1st AAR, Shalkai (Axis) vs GamerDad (Soviet... - 11/24/2019 6:54:35 AM   
Shalkai

 

Posts: 231
Joined: 8/9/2018
Status: offline
Axis Turn 3 Play Notes part F

Here's a pic of the southern half of the AGC zone, centered around Minsk. I didn't quite reach the Dnepr but defenses look pretty weak.




All in all, things are going pretty well for Axis. Soviet withdrawals have kept their casualties down, but my units are many miles farther forward since they don't have to deal with reducing pockets or advancing through contested ZOC hexes. Theoretically I'll get east faster than historically achieved, but face more troops and have bigger battles when I get close to Leningrad and Moscow. We'll see if things work out like that once we get to the September turns.

27 hexes to Moscow, 17 to Osinovets.
Vehicle pool 173k (48k needed). Rail at turn start was 184k total. 166k available for supply after unit moves (160k needed). I'm at 100%, no penalty, for both vehicle and rail. This is a Good Thing (tm).

Total losses at end of Axis Turn 3: Axis 37496 men, 473 gun, 374 afv, 27 spac. Soviet 920938 men, 14014 gun, 6450 afv, 1955 spac
Net loss of about 2300 vehicles this turn: 2500 lost, 200 captured.
Air losses: Axis 32 (this turn), 123 Total. Soviet 168 (this turn), 5144 Total. Fighters the only type where losses came close to new prod.
Destroyed units: 24 this turn, mostly SU and forts. 2 rifle, 1 mtn division; 1 AT brigade, 8 fortified regions were the on-map losses.
OOB shows Germany at 3.3M manpower, Soviet at 3.14M.

No major risks to consider, since Soviets are husbanding troops and planes. As far as errors, I messed up garrison for Minsk, and (though itís not really my error, but a v1.12 bug) one panzer unit is out of supply range while it garrisons Vitebsk. Right now my panzers are very spread out - theyíve had little to fight, let alone pocket, so they are doing ZOC conversions more than anything else. Infantry should catch up to the front line in most places next turn. It doesn't look like there'll be any big pocket opportunities until my rail heads and supply reach can get a bit farther forward.


Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Shalkai -- 11/24/2019 7:09:01 AM >

(in reply to Shalkai)
Post #: 36
RE: 1st PvP+1st AAR, Shalkai (Axis) vs GamerDad (Soviet... - 12/5/2019 6:52:11 PM   
Nekronion

 

Posts: 20
Joined: 6/20/2019
Status: offline
Good to see a 1.12 AAR

(in reply to Shalkai)
Post #: 37
RE: 1st PvP+1st AAR, Shalkai (Axis) vs GamerDad (Soviet... - 12/14/2019 4:36:30 PM   
Shalkai

 

Posts: 231
Joined: 8/9/2018
Status: offline
Axis Turn 4 Play Notes part A

GamerDad and I had a short hiatus for Thanksgiving holiday etc. but we've now finished turn 8, so here is turn 4 for everyone.

At first glance, looks like withdrawals have continued. The line is pulled back 3-5 hexes everywhere in the Ukraine. I can only see a couple ground units in AGC and AGN areas. From air unit placement, I think the defense line is a few hexes west of Smolensk/VeliLuki/Novgorod.

Panzer unit fuel is not good in AGC - even in the corps I hit with HQBU, one panzer only has 23 MP. The PzD I left supply-isolated in Vitebsk only has 10 MP. I moved a Ju52 unit to railhead by Vilnius to drop it some gas during this turn. AGN panzers are in horrible shape too with only 10-20 MP. 1st PzG in AGS is in much better shape - one div even has a full 50 MP.

Event report is pretty bland. No random dead generals etc. Rail availability down at the bottom in the Resource Status section shows I have 100% needed for supply hauling, with a bit left over. Since this is the last turn I have 4+ divs as reinforcements for a while, Iíll use a few AP if I have them to turn the reserved rail setting down, maybe 5 points worth.

Battle report shows something besides my interdicts this time - about 30 scouting flights. Thatís it, though. Recons did cost me a few fighters. The recons are scattered, probably one run of AI recon in GamerDadís turn. Thereís no obvious focus looking for panzers for example. My interdictions were all in AGS area as Soviets pulled back. All but one of them caused MP loss and they probably messed up a few movement plans.

Looking into Commander Reports, about 5 ftr units are a bit fatigued. I send 5 fighter and 5 bomber units to Reserve, mostly Stab schwarms. I pull a couple of rested units back out of reserve. I leave all the other combat air units there in reserve; they are still low on planes and EXP. Iíve got 6+ fully rested recon units I can bring forward, though I doubt there will be a need.

I assign another three Construction SU to Rumanian Railroad Command. That should get its RRV up to 16 next turn. That might be one SU too many, since most of the German FBDs only have seven SU in them. Speaking of SUs, OKH finally has a pile of them, so I can start free assignments back down now. For map units, I spend 6 AP and assign two ID from 9th Armee in AGC to 2nd Armee in AGN. AGC HQ is now at limit once I recombine some regiments. AGS...well, they are still at -49 CP.

Air Recon (first an AI run, then some manual flights) finds the main line. Odessa is heavily defended, the MLR line runs up the Bug river-Vinnitsa-Zhitomir-marshes. AGC and AGN face a line on Dnepr river-Smolensk-VeliLuki-swamps-Novgorod-Luga river. Tallinn may be empty according to scouts.

Units start advancing. Pskov is defended only by a fort.zone then an NKVD rgt. Half the Finns are unlocked, and they advance well. One Russian division is almost surrounded, and should be forced to surrender in a turn or two.





Attachment (1)

(in reply to Nekronion)
Post #: 38
RE: 1st PvP+1st AAR, Shalkai (Axis) vs GamerDad (Soviet... - 12/14/2019 4:42:42 PM   
Shalkai

 

Posts: 231
Joined: 8/9/2018
Status: offline
Not shown above is movement of the Finn I Corps HQ to near Hanno. Once the combat units facing the Soviet base unlock they can be put into that HQ to make eventual assault easier.

My infantry donít have quite enough MP to get to Tallinn, but much of Estonia is put under German control. A few Inf make contact with the line between Pskov and VeliLuki. East of Vitebsk, the supply bug means any advancing units would be isolated. An evening is spent moving units forward, working first with the units farthest in the rear. Most of the turn is done by bedtime but I still have some tricky bits to do - try to get a Dnepr bridgehead north of Mogilev, see if I can pocket Vinnitsa, and drive to the Black Sea to cut off Odessa.

Proskurov (two rifleD) and the last holdout in the Carpathians are forced to surrender - it took three attacks to take Proskurov, plus bombing.

Play continues the next evening. I pocketed 10+ divisions around Vinnitsa. It took every pzr and mot division in 1st PG, but I *think* it will hold. This means no drive to the Black Sea, unfortunately. Oh well. Iíd rather pocket and kill divisions; isolating Odessa isnít as critical as blowing up the Bug defensive line.







Attachment (1)

(in reply to Shalkai)
Post #: 39
RE: 1st PvP+1st AAR, Shalkai (Axis) vs GamerDad (Soviet... - 12/14/2019 4:51:15 PM   
Shalkai

 

Posts: 231
Joined: 8/9/2018
Status: offline
Axis Turn 4 Part C

Moving back up to AGC, infantry advances and a few reach the Dnepr, though not with enough MP left to assault. I can run a panzer corps up and probably knock one defender back, then move across Infantry. Or save panzers for next turn. The supply check bug means panzers wonít be able to go forward much further on Turn 5 though, probably only two or three hexes past what Iíve already captured. Bridgehead it is, then. A single hex over the Dnepr now will allow me in a turn or two to easily break any defensive line along the river once my supply catches up.

Attack is successful after two bombing sorties, and Iím able to get a panzer and an infantry division across the bridges at Orsha. Iím curious if GamerDad will stay put at the Dnepr another turn, or withdraw to the Sozh river. Iíll put a 5-spot on withdraw.





Attachment (1)

(in reply to Shalkai)
Post #: 40
RE: 1st PvP+1st AAR, Shalkai (Axis) vs GamerDad (Soviet... - 12/14/2019 5:00:08 PM   
Shalkai

 

Posts: 231
Joined: 8/9/2018
Status: offline
Axis Turn 4 Part D

Here's the situation around Velikiye Luki. Infantry pushes 30-50 miles ahead through mixed terrain, and one unit gets adjacent to the city itself. Panzers regroup around their HQs to refit and resupply. Railhead can be seen far to the west (the entrained units) and supply path is 23 hexes from there to that division by VeliLuki.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Shalkai)
Post #: 41
RE: 1st PvP+1st AAR, Shalkai (Axis) vs GamerDad (Soviet... - 12/14/2019 5:11:05 PM   
Shalkai

 

Posts: 231
Joined: 8/9/2018
Status: offline
Axis Turn 4 Part E

I have enough AP to do one HQBU, I just need to decide where. I settle on Mansteinís LVI PzK, as they are a bit closer to rail than the others, and I want to push hard east of Pskov next turn. After that, I do 20 minutes of reverse-kabuki, moving airbases and Ju52s near railheads, then doing a dozen or so fuel airdrop missions. That doesnít count the ten minutes spent double-checking the manual on requirements. I think Iíve finally got airdrop missions figured out; the prerequisite needed (that I finally really learned a month earlier) is figuring out air transfers and that darned hidden select button.

Panzer fuel should be in better shape next turn. Most of the AGC and AGN panzers have 20-30% after air drops, and HQs are between 13-18 hexes from rail. Much better than last turn. Here's the turn end map on the road to Leningrad. I expected more of a fight for Pskov, but the Soviet pullback does mean I won't be surrounding much if anything. Will his stronger armies in later turns make up for my faster advances now? Stay tuned for further updates... :)





Attachment (1)

(in reply to Shalkai)
Post #: 42
RE: 1st PvP+1st AAR, Shalkai (Axis) vs GamerDad (Soviet... - 12/14/2019 5:28:16 PM   
Shalkai

 

Posts: 231
Joined: 8/9/2018
Status: offline
Axis Turn 4 Part F

Air bases down south are moved up, then every bomber that hasnít been busy flies ground attack missions til 20-25% or more of air miles are used. Most targets are out of Russian air support range, so my fighters mostly rest. 40 attacks times an average of 60 casualties per attack causes a couple thousand more Soviet casualties. It also does very nice things for Rumanian air unit morale, which is up to an average of about 75%. AGC air units do another 30 attacks or so, about ⅓ airbase and ⅔ ground attack. I do all my air attacks in manual mode, so this takes a while. In AGC and AGN I cease air missions when units are in the 15-20% used range.

Pic below shows AGS in the North Ukraine. You can see the 46th PzK (light blue) northwest of Zhitomir - they could have moved up a bit more, but it will be better to save their fuel for exploitation next turn instead of capturing one more hex this turn.

The Slovakian motor brigade boldly moves next to two entire Soviet motorized corps. They could easily swat it back during the Russian turn, but whether they do or not doesn't matter much. Slovak replacements are available if it is spanked. Having it in this hex blocks all those tank divisions from a direct path to relieve that big Vinnitsa pocket.





Attachment (1)

(in reply to Shalkai)
Post #: 43
RE: 1st PvP+1st AAR, Shalkai (Axis) vs GamerDad (Soviet... - 12/14/2019 5:40:41 PM   
Shalkai

 

Posts: 231
Joined: 8/9/2018
Status: offline
Axis Turn 4 Part G

Here is the final view around Odessa. Rumanian units are slowly trudging forward across the steppes, but still have a ways to go even to reach Odessa.



All that used up my second evening working on this turn. My hours per turn seems to be settling down to about 10-12 now, which usually works out to three or four evenings. Things should speed up a bit more as I get back in the groove of steady game play. Ideally Iíd like to be able to complete a turn in two evenings, but RealLife isnít going to let that happen every time no matter how much my efficiency improves.

Risks and errors: (self-assessment of Turn 4)
Risk - most of my air units are very near the front lines, and somewhat vulnerable if Soviets concentrate good planes and contest air control in one zone. Iíve been adding flak units to LW HQs, and will probably add more next turn. Iím also husbanding fighters as much as I can. One simple adjustment Iíve started doing this turn and last is to do ground support missions without fighter support once I know Soviet fighters arenít responding. Since my recon units are in very good shape (and I have a dozen more sitting in NR) Iíll be expanding my recon flights starting next turn.
Error - Minsk garrisoned, but only to 70%. It needs another security regiment. I could have left behind a combat regiment, but decided Iíd rather keep pushing forward.
Risk - One infantry at 26 hexes and supply-isolated near Smolensk. That was deliberate, as it is a good defensive hex and I donít want Soviets to reclaim it. That div has nearly full supply and ammo so I donít think it will hurt too much.

Notes for next turn:
- Separate recon and transport planes so transport airbase can be kept within 5MP of railhead.
- transfer 2 Inf from 4th Army in AGC to 3rd Panzer Group, also one unit from 2nd PzG to 3rd PzG. Since 4th Army has too many corps HQ, maybe - transfer one? That would cost me a HQBU, but then Iíd have all of both AGN and AGC free of CP penalties.
- Run more recon: goals will be to tire out more Soviet fighters, and get a better idea of defense lines being set up for key cities.
- Transfer more SU down from OKH.
- For Rumania, put one each ftr/tac/bmb into Reserve so thereís something there for emergencies.
- For Germany, take a look at withdrawing air units and turn off replacements/upgrades if appropriate. Add that to my Turn1 to-do list for future games, too. [heh - it was already there, I just forgot. Doh!]
- Check Rumanian Rail Command: did adding more SUs up RRC total? If so, add that to setup/org notes for the future.
- Check Finn HQ commanders now that most are unlocked.
- Check German HQ commanders to make sure no Colonel Klinkís got promoted.
- If we actually get to MLR defensive lines, save a few units and set some reserves to help schwerpunkts.

Goals and strategy:
No changes in main goals - destroy units; drive on Leningrad, Moscow, and Donbass. Strategy-wise, Iím trying to estimate and plan two turns ahead for where my mobile units go, and what they might be able to pocket. Infantry is still catching up to the front line, since Soviet forces have been steadily withdrawing, so pocket opportunities have been limited. Next turn, Iím eyeing west of Kiev and east of Pskov for possible pockets. AGC armor probably wonít have any pocket opportunities on T5, so itíll concentrate for a big pocket of Smolensk on T6.

Leningrad is the first big target, and four armies have that firmly in their sights. The reinforcement 2nd Armee is still moving forward, and is still two turns away from reaching the front I think. Hopefully having a full extra army in AGN (currently 8 divisions and growing) will be a nasty surprise for the Soviets, and will help power the advance through the northern Russian forests.

GamerDad has been husbanding strength by pulling back, and has 3-unit stacks in some areas. When he stops to fight things will get tough very quickly. Iím going to need to make small but solid pockets to blow through each line and keep up the casualty count. The flip side of his withdrawal strategy is that my OOB is in great shape. Since I have ToeM turned down a little (95%) on the low-morale INF units, my overall German OOB was only about 32k under my 3350k TOE total - thatís less than 1% from max. Infantry units average maybe 97%, panzers around 92%. Thatís much better than when I play against myself. The caveat is that bloodbaths will be coming shortly when I hit major defensive lines.

My speed of advance is very satisfactory. If I can maintain an average advance speed of 2+ hexes/turn, I should be in good shape to take Leningrad and threaten Moscow. On turn 4, Iím past Pskov, adjacent to VeliLuki, have a bridgehead over the upper Dnepr, and Iím 60% of the way to the lower Dnepr and Kiev. Supply chain leashes are a major factor but things are about as good as they could be.

Railhead advancement is going well. My rail plan isnít as optimized as the three FBD teamwork out of AGN that is shown in the Matrix forums, but mine is better suited to a broad advance. EvKís optimized scheme would have the advantage of avoiding the MP/hex count supply issue around Minsk, so I may want to reconsider using that in future games. In AGS, I have the German FBD pushing towards Cherkassy, while Rum.Rail heads to Odessa. So far this looks quite a bit better than my previous scheme. Since rail conversion is considerably ahead of historical rates (thanks, all you wargamer mini-max fiends!) the new supply limits and v12.02 bug arenít a big deal in the overall scheme of things. IMHO supply needed some tweaking to check the German advance rate after players figured out ways to optimize rail conversion.

I need to adjust my air unit assignment scheme. Up til now Iíve kept recon and transport combined in a single air base, since the total number of units was just right to spread things out evenly. Iím going to switch that. From next turn onwards, recons will be transferred to the ftr/tac/bmr air bases (usually 3 per FliegerKorps), one airbase will be just for transports and back in the rear within range of the railhead, and one airbase will be kept empty to use as a forward staging base This is just one example of how Iím learning new things and increasing my skill level each and every turn.

We are still a couple months, real-time, away from bad weather turns. One thing I can do now, for this and all future games, is make a list of good garrison cities and towns for the blizzard turns. I can mark up a map as well to make them easier to find. Hmm! Might be able to do some of that in my spare time at work since I have command report exports and a map stored in the cloud. Iíve done enough games against myself so mud turns wonít be a big problem; I know how to organize HQs and units to minimize supply penalties and not be overextended. Blizzard, however, will be more of a challenge as Iíve only done a couple games through the whole winter. Thereís lots of good advice in the forums I can use (garrisoning panzers and some high-morale infantry, pullbacks, defend with regiments etc.) but those are things Iíve read about but never fully implemented.

25 hexes to Moscow, 15 to Osinovets. Vehicle pool 176k (52k needed). Rail 180k total (152k needed) 162k available after rail moves.

Total losses at end of Axis Turn 4: Axis 50035 men, 596 gun, 454 afv, 33 spac. Soviet 1014460 men, 15642 gun, 6929 afv, 2054 spac
Net loss of about 2300 vehicles this turn: 2600 lost, 300 captured.
Air losses: Axis 45 (this turn), 168 Total. Soviet 344 (this turn), 5488 Total. Fighters the only type where losses came close to new prod.
Destroyed units: 18 this turn, mostly SU and forts. 1 rifle, 2 mtn division, 1 NKVD regiment, 5 fortified regions were the on-map losses.
OOB shows Germany at 3.35M manpower, Soviet at 3.47M. Thatís about a 300k Soviet increase since last turn.






Attachment (1)

(in reply to Shalkai)
Post #: 44
RE: 1st PvP+1st AAR, Shalkai (Axis) vs GamerDad (Soviet... - 12/22/2019 3:07:39 PM   
Shalkai

 

Posts: 231
Joined: 8/9/2018
Status: offline
It looks like this will be a fairly short AAR, as my esteemed opponent GamerDad has thrown in the towel after Turn 9. I will continue to post all my work in Axis turns 5-9 so that this AAR is complete. I should be able to get that done over the next week or two.

Executive summary of this AAR for those still on v11.03:
- Supply changes in v.12.02 do hamper the Axis advance compared to older versions, but not seriously. Optimized railhead repair can still easily keep the front line ahead of historical progress.
- Soviet HQ shatters cause a noticeable spike in casualties during the first couple turns.
- Increases in morale and EXP (i.e. fixing the v.11 morale bug) for new Soviet units did seem to increase fortification level buildups as the Soviets tried to dig in.
- I am guessing that rail system changes have hampered Soviet new unit transportation and factory evacuation, based on what I saw from the Axis point of view.

(in reply to Shalkai)
Post #: 45
Turn 5 - 1st PvP+1st AAR, Shalkai (Axis) vs GamerDad (S... - 12/22/2019 4:16:49 PM   
Shalkai

 

Posts: 231
Joined: 8/9/2018
Status: offline
Axis Turn 5, part A

First checks show the big pocket around Vinnitsa held, Soviets are still withdrawing, and Axis advances are exceeding supply capacity. My vehicle pool is fine, but rail supply pool is at 96%. Iíll definitely need to lower the setting of rail saved for unit transport this turn.

Air units mostly in good shape. Some units NW of Mogilev have high damage and 30%+ fatigue but that is due to a dozen interdicts as enemy pulled back from the Dnepr. 30 interdictions are the only battles reported, so I can isolate the results easily. Summary: Germans lost 9 fighters and 7 bombers, plus damage and fatigue noted above. Russians lost 59 fighters, ~1100 ground troops, 60 arty, and 10 afv.

One bomber stab and one beat-up recon are it for German transfers to NR. Since this looks like another light combat turn I donít push more air units back. I do remember to turn off upgrades for units that will withdraw (and also replacements on those leaving soon). Two recons are pulled out of reserve as replacements for ones soon to withdraw. One each of ftr, bmr, and rec Rumanian air units are sent to reserve just so I'll have something later. Finns and other minor allies air units look fine.

Most panzers are in decent shape, fuel-wise. The two farthest forward only got dregs, though. 15% and 6% of needed, respectively. Bottom line is that any unit at 23+ hexes from rail will get very little. Hopefully thatíll get eased a bit when 12.03 patch comes out. I think thatíll ease things a bit by assigning range penalties according to where the HQ is, not the unit and get the game back in line with the rulebook and previous versions.

Recon flights are done - about 150 of them, then I withdraw a few more unused recon units to reserve, then fly some more missions. MLR is well scouted, and some deeper areas with screening forces are also spotted. Sorties are also done to get some hints about Leningrad and Moscow defenses. After 200 sorties or so, AGN long range recon is the only exhausted group. Scratch that - those are the two extra ones I put in because some others will eventually withdraw. Iím definitely going to need to pull out even more recon units so supplies arenít wasted.

In the south, most of the Vinnitsa pocket is cleared. There are three bunkered divisions left to clear next turn in the city itself. Other than that pocket, the advance is mostly uncontested. Panzers clear a few screen units on the approaches to Kiev and Cherkassy, and move the Axis control line 6-10 hexes forward in most areas.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Shalkai)
Post #: 46
RE: Turn 5 - 1st PvP+1st AAR, Shalkai (Axis) vs GamerDa... - 12/22/2019 4:23:44 PM   
Shalkai

 

Posts: 231
Joined: 8/9/2018
Status: offline
Axis Turn 5 part B:

The outer works of Odessa are abandoned. Odessa itself will be taken next turn. [update: no, just attacked. New fort rules!] The smaller port of Okachov, about fifty miles further east, is undefended and occupied this turn - capturing 3k tons each of fuel and supply. Next turn will be used up getting the infantry forward, and Turn 7 should see major battles for Kiev/Cherkassy/Kirovograd/Nikolaev.
FBD1 is across the upper Dnestr and will be in Vinnitsa in two turns; RumanianRail is in Kishinev.





Attachment (1)

(in reply to Shalkai)
Post #: 47
RE: Turn 5 - 1st PvP+1st AAR, Shalkai (Axis) vs GamerDa... - 12/22/2019 4:29:08 PM   
Shalkai

 

Posts: 231
Joined: 8/9/2018
Status: offline
South of Smolensk, AGC has a quiet turn. Infantry advances, one panzer scoots around claiming territory, and everyone makes sure not to get too far from the main supply dumps. The infantry next to Smolensk is at the limit (25 hexes) for supply this turn. Guderianís 2nd PzG mostly rests and waits for supply. The general plan is to use two corps from 2nd PzG and one from 3rd PzG to pincer Smolensk next turn or the turn after as supply reach allows. Current railhead is at 64,53 six hexes northwest of Minsk.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Shalkai)
Post #: 48
RE: Turn 5 - 1st PvP+1st AAR, Shalkai (Axis) vs GamerDa... - 12/22/2019 4:36:32 PM   
Shalkai

 

Posts: 231
Joined: 8/9/2018
Status: offline
Things are more active farther north. 16th Army and 39th PanzerKorp seize Velikiye Luki and push another 30 miles east, pinning five rifle divisions just south of the city. This will likely force the Soviets to withdraw to the upper Dvina river and the Valdai Hills on their turn. The other half of 3rd PzG can be seen resting near Vitebsk while they prepare to blitz next turn. One forward Red airbase just east of VeliLuki was thoroughly bombed, then overrun, resulting in the loss of 80+ IL-4 bombers.





Attachment (1)

(in reply to Shalkai)
Post #: 49
RE: Turn 5 - 1st PvP+1st AAR, Shalkai (Axis) vs GamerDa... - 12/22/2019 4:46:08 PM   
Shalkai

 

Posts: 231
Joined: 8/9/2018
Status: offline
The shot below is AGN mostly done with their advance. The Tallinn garrison was withdrawn and I seized that port this turn, so that leaves (I think) only two routed units to mop up on the Gulf of Riga islands. Iím still moving up the panzer units, trying to claim as much as I can this turn so infantry can move up at full speed next turn towards Novgorod, Lake Ilmen, and the Luga river defense line. You can see 2nd Army (the light blue units) clustered around Pskov. This army is a full 12 infantry divisions - basically almost all the reinforcements received so far. It is moving up as a group, and AGN will have nearly 30 divisions pushing on Leningrad and Lake Ladoga.

My current plan is to insert/shuffle this reinforcement army in on the far left of AGN once the advance slows. Most of these divisions are morale 75 or 80, and they wonít be as effective as the veterans of 18th Army (the purple guys) when trying to assault fortified positions. So 2nd Army will screen the forts and hills south of the city, and Leningrad itself, while the Purple Soviet People Eater dances farther east. I canít tell yet which Ladoga port will be the main 18th Army target. I suspect the Neva river defenses, just east of Leningrad itself, will be nasty since GamerDad is conserving his unit strength. There will be some big battles there in about four turns. If I canít break that line, then Iíll have to look east towards Sviritsa and isolate Leningrad the hard and slow way by pushing up the Volkhov river, then to the Finnish no-attack line.





Attachment (1)

(in reply to Shalkai)
Post #: 50
RE: Turn 5 - 1st PvP+1st AAR, Shalkai (Axis) vs GamerDa... - 12/22/2019 4:50:14 PM   
Shalkai

 

Posts: 231
Joined: 8/9/2018
Status: offline
Speaking of the Finns, Mannerheimís boys are doing just fine. The Soviet defense of Karelia is weak and withdrawing as fast as it can. In the north, the bottleneck around Lake Jan is already partially taken (with no fort levels it canít be held), one division is pocketed against Ladogaís shores, while the Soviet construction of forts that recon flights have spotted indicates the Russians intend a complete withdrawal. The garrison in Hanko (not shown) was blasted from the air, then taken by I Finnish Corps. Finn losses this turn were light - about 150 elements (~1500 men) lost in battle.





Attachment (1)

(in reply to Shalkai)
Post #: 51
RE: Turn 5 - 1st PvP+1st AAR, Shalkai (Axis) vs GamerDa... - 12/22/2019 4:51:19 PM   
Shalkai

 

Posts: 231
Joined: 8/9/2018
Status: offline
Hereís the result around Novgorod after Mansteinís 56PzK exploits in all directions. A huge swath of territory is cleared, and the infantry will have a quick advance next turn to reach the Soviet lines. Two more airbases are bombed and overrun just south of Lake Ilmen.





Attachment (1)

(in reply to Shalkai)
Post #: 52
RE: Turn 5 - 1st PvP+1st AAR, Shalkai (Axis) vs GamerDa... - 12/22/2019 5:06:15 PM   
Shalkai

 

Posts: 231
Joined: 8/9/2018
Status: offline
I did one small HQBU for two divisions near Vitebsk. Ju52s lumbered around and scattered jerry cans of gas on my forward panzer units.

End of turn to-do chores:
- Transfer more SU down from OKH. [I did another chunk. Would be nice to reorganize completely during mud, so leg SU not in panzer HQ, etc.]
- Check Rumanian Rail Command: did adding more SUs up RRC total? If so, add that to setup/org notes for the future. [Nope :( Sigh. ]
- Check Finn HQ commanders now that most are unlocked. [IV Finn Corps could be upgraded, but not worth 30 AP. Sheesh!]
- Check German HQ commanders to make sure no Colonel Klinkís got promoted. [OK for now. Will do 6 and 17 Corps in mud]
- Assign seven recovered units from air NR back to air bases. Most of the AGC and AGS beat-up stabs are recovered.
-St/JG52 and III.JG52, St.J53, St.J3, St.StG77, St.K2, St.K27 [Done]
- Use AP to decrease reserved rail from 10% down to 5%. [Done, -5 AP]
- Adjust Finn ToeM to concentrate replacements in good units. [Done]

I found a number of small moves to place HQs better, and did another batch of ground attacks with two Fliegerkorps (groups of air bases) that didnít do much earlier. Turn 5 finally finished and sent off.

23 hexes to Moscow, 11 to Osinovets. Thatís not a whole lot of room to fall back with 12 more turns of clear weather ahead.
Vehicle pool 182k (59k needed). Rail at turn start was 178k total. 160k available for supply after units, (166k needed). 160/166=96%.

Total losses at end of Axis Turn 5: Axis 63417 men, 736 gun, 628 afv, 43 spac. Soviet 1250311 men, 19009 gun, 8010 afv, 2269 spac
Net gain of about 700 vehicles this turn: 2700 lost, 3400 captured.
Air losses: Axis 60 (this turn), 228 Total. Soviet 547 (this turn), 6035 Total. Losses not close to new production in any type.
Destroyed units: 47 this turn, inc. 1 corps HQ. Many divisions - 3 tank, 3 mot, 5 rifle, 3 mtn division; plus 1 AT and 2 Inf brigade were the on-map losses.
OOB shows Germany at 3.37M manpower, Soviet at 3.65M

Risks and errors:
- Slight risk of some infantry units being isolated in Estonia if there are some unspotted Soviet cavalry lurking in the swamps.
- Risk for Luftwaffe - a third or more of Soviet Air is near Leningrad. I may want to transfer some more fighters up there next turn.
- Risk - I need to make sure not to commit too much strength to taking Odessa. Itís also easy to mix together units from many armies there and later when heading into Crimea.

Other than that, I will be bumping up against 25-hex ground unit isolation limit in several areas next turn.

Next turn to-do list:
Take a good look at opportunities in the Valdai Hills. It looks like there are only 15 or so ground units between Vologda and Rzhev - and a third of those are routed. Possible pockets or just taking good defensive terrain on the cheap.





Attachment (1)

(in reply to Shalkai)
Post #: 53
RE: 1st PvP+1st AAR, Shalkai (Axis) vs GamerDad (Soviet... - 12/22/2019 5:07:54 PM   
weinsoldner

 

Posts: 136
Joined: 5/13/2017
From: Netherlands
Status: offline
Hi Shalkai GREAT to read this AAR for two reasons. First because it is a very detailed AAR using the latest beta patch and second because I also play as the AXIS in another game versus gamerdad. We are at turn 73 right now

(in reply to Shalkai)
Post #: 54
Turn 5 - 1st PvP+1st AAR, Shalkai (Axis) vs GamerDad (S... - 12/22/2019 5:11:09 PM   
Shalkai

 

Posts: 231
Joined: 8/9/2018
Status: offline
Turn 5 final thoughts...

The turn might be sent off, but the game calls, as any good game does, and I came back for some more study of the map and considering future possibilities. Ukraine should be interesting the next few turns. From an operational point of view, the defense line on the Ingul river between Kirovograd and Nikolaev isnít going to slow me down very much. That leaves the Dnepr. What just struck me is how many units he has around Kiev. The stretch from Kiev to Cherkassy has a double or triple stacked line, and fort levels on the east bank are already mostly 2ís. Thatís something Iíd rather go around, not through. Barring a huge shift in his troops, this just reinforces my original Plan A of punching across the Dnepr around Cherkassy or Kremenchug. My railhead will be at Vinnitsa at the start of Turn 8 which will give me supply reach almost to the Dnepr bend. Weíll see where the weak spots are once Iím ready. Pushing the primary Ukraine rail link through Vinnitsa gives better reach and far greater flexibility than my older scheme of rail conversion nearer the Black Sea coast.

Looking north, defenses arenít as heavy - yet - around Smolensk. My railheads are moving up fast and if thereís no major withdrawal Iíll be attempting to blow a huge gap and create a pocket somewhere around here next turn. With my panzers east of both VeliLuki and Lake Ilmen, I expect at least half of the Soviet reinforcements to be sent to the Valdai Hills area during GamerDadís turn. Even if that happens, the defensive terrain isnít that strong between VeliLuki and Rzhev. 3rd PzG should be able to spearhead the capture of Rzhev by Turn 10. After I punched two big holes in his screen and overran three airbases this turn, it is also possible that Soviet forces pull back 5+ hexes and set up a new line roughly on the eastern edge of the hills and lakes.

Leningrad is more straightforward, and my armies will advance then focus on whatever option is viable for isolating the city. It might be crossing the Neva near Lake Ladoga, or fighting northeast on one, or both, sides of the Volkhov river. This area will get even more Recon focus next turn. I also want to get a better count of how many planes are in the North. I stopped counting around 2000, and OOB shows the Soviets only have 6900 planes left.

The next night, I load up my turn end again for some further checking and strategizing.

Supply curve for Range from Rail modifier:
Range: 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
Modifier: 83% 75% 66% 57% 48% 40% 34% 30% 26% 24% 24%
The modifier listed above is just the biggest of the supply modifiers. All the rest usually add up to about a 0.6 or smaller multiplier, times the above, when distant from rail. The cumulative total sees deliveries in the 10% range when a unit is past 20 hexes. Way different from v11.03 where Iíd expect 30% deliveries (because the HQ paid the penalties, and HQ was usually under 20 hex from rail]..

Point for everyone: These modifiers are applied to the *unit* in 12.02, not the HQ. My old operational rule was try to keep HQ generally within 15 hexes of rail, 20 tops. Until 12.03 patch comes out, this means swanning around at 20+ hexes from railhead for *units* is not sustainable. Iíll adjust my landgrabbing and HQ placement even more beginning next turn. One thing this does mean is that reaching Rostov before blizzard is nigh impossible, so Iím going to rein in my goals. My rail repair plan is far enough forward in AGC and AGN areas that -5 hex supply range is about balanced out by +5 hex railhead location. AGS operations will not have that +5 hex bonus. Stalino/Donbass is going to be my new 1941 advance goal for AGS.

I donít really mind having a tighter supply leash as the Axis in Ď41. Having the supply rules change when we restarted this game, then change again for the 12.02 patch, has definitely made things difficult to understand and adapt to. Some of my infantry units that have been at the front of the advance are under 40% supply stocks, and thatís with no battles since the first turn. The net effect is to leash unit advances to something close to historical limits.

(in reply to Shalkai)
Post #: 55
RE: 1st PvP+1st AAR, Shalkai (Axis) vs GamerDad (Soviet... - 12/22/2019 5:14:36 PM   
Shalkai

 

Posts: 231
Joined: 8/9/2018
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: weinsoldner

Hi Shalkai GREAT to read this AAR for two reasons. First because it is a very detailed AAR using the latest beta patch and second because I also play as the AXIS in another game versus gamerdad. We are at turn 73 right now


Thanks for the feedback! I've got four more turns to post before we called a halt to this game. I'll see if I can get one turn/day posted in this AAR to finish it up. Then, in a month or so, I'll begin another AAR - GamerDad and I are going to switch sides and go for a rematch! :D


(in reply to weinsoldner)
Post #: 56
Turn 6 - 1st PvP+1st AAR, Shalkai (Axis) vs GamerDad (S... - 12/26/2019 3:05:19 PM   
Shalkai

 

Posts: 231
Joined: 8/9/2018
Status: offline
Axis Turn 6 part A:

First glance looks like more pullbacks in most areas. Smolensk and that line is abandoned. No partisan activity so far. 26 interdicts are it on the battles report. Those attacks cost me 4 ftr and 4bmr; Soviet losses were 46 ftr, ~700men, 30art, 5afv.

Vehicle pool: 189k available (64k needed) - doing great. Rail pool: 190k total; 10k used for unit moves, 180k available (152k needed) 100%, so all good.

Air unit status: Only 15 of them at 20%+ fatigue, and 40% of those are Ju52s . Quite acceptable. 16 units have 6 or more damaged planes, so some of those will go to NR. No big concerns on morale or experience levels. A couple of transfers in and out then the Germans will be fine. Finn and Rum have no issues. I transfer 1 ftr and 3 bmr units to NR, along with 4 German and 1 Slovak surplus recon.

Ground unit status: No one isolated; lots of units high on fatigue. Canít let them not march forward though. 6, 7, 9, and 14th PzDiv are 80% or less ToE. A few Finn and Hun brigades are the only other low units right now. Iíll try to push the panzers a bit less this turn. A couple of SS brigades are it for reinforcements, and they only take up 8k of rail transport capacity.

Recon: I dunno about the algorithm the game uses to choose recon units for sorties. After 200 recon flights, only 30 recce squadrons have even flown miles, and only 4 squadrons are over 50% travel used. Thatís still plenty to see most of whatís out there. Leningrad has a main line from Novgorod along the Luga, and another half dozen units digging in just south of the city. I see very few units east of the Volkhov, though. Valdai Hills area is pretty skimpy, too. 6 or so units scattered to screen the hills, and about the same digging in behind the upper Dvina just SE of there. Main line was indeed pulled back towards Moscow and is now 40 miles east of Smolensk. From there it runs SSW to Gomel, then follows the Dnepr all the way to the sea. Kiev is well defended; a screen north and south of Krivoi Rog plus garrisons in Odessa and Nikolaev are the only units west of the Dnepr in Ukraine.

This means another very light combat turn.
- AGS will be able to attack the Kiev and Odessa defenders, and finish off Vinnitsa. Air units should be able to hit enemy airbases behind Kiev at least.
- AGC will clean up south of VeliLuki, and trudge another 40-50 miles forward. The Soviet line is over 25 hexes in some places from my rail heads.
- AGN will see some fights; I need to ponder how much to hold back for a possible deep attack next turn there.

I start work up north, where the Finns surrender the one RifleDiv they caught, then swarm forward almost unopposed. Karelian army moves 40 mi east towards Lake Onega, while Kannas army moves toward the old border north of Leningrad, chasing out one tank unit that was slow in retreating.





Attachment (1)

(in reply to Shalkai)
Post #: 57
RE: Turn 6 - 1st PvP+1st AAR, Shalkai (Axis) vs GamerDa... - 12/26/2019 3:13:01 PM   
Shalkai

 

Posts: 231
Joined: 8/9/2018
Status: offline
Axis Turn 6 Part B

AGN has 18th Armee push up to Narva and the Luga line, which is mostly reached. Narva is taken, and the outer defenders are pushed back into Novgorod. 41 PzK disengages from the Luga line and awaits resupply, while 56 PzK exploits east of Lake Ilmen, moving 50 miles towards Tikhvin. These three divisions are at 21 hexes from rail so wonít get much fuel, but 2nd Armee moves up behind them to push farther next turn.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Shalkai)
Post #: 58
RE: Turn 6 - 1st PvP+1st AAR, Shalkai (Axis) vs GamerDa... - 12/26/2019 3:44:00 PM   
Shalkai

 

Posts: 231
Joined: 8/9/2018
Status: offline
Axis Turn 6 part C

AGN's 16th Armee moves into the west side of the Valdai Hills and partially reduces the Soviets trapped south of VeliLuki. The two best defending divisions are left to surrender next turn. The German line is at about 19 hexes from rail, so bad but not awful supply deliveries next turn.





Attachment (1)

(in reply to Shalkai)
Post #: 59
RE: Turn 6 - 1st PvP+1st AAR, Shalkai (Axis) vs GamerDa... - 12/26/2019 3:46:02 PM   
Shalkai

 

Posts: 231
Joined: 8/9/2018
Status: offline
Axis Turn 6 part D

AGC has a quiet turn. 9th and 4th armies push most units up near the new Soviet defense line but donít engage. They stop at 20-24 hexes from rail so they can get a trickle of supply next turn. A few infantry divisions and all of the panzers sit and refit/resupply at about 15 hexes from rail. Gomel is seized by the 12th InfK, and patrols on the south flank of AGC link up with AGS at the southeast corner of the Pripyat Marshes. Anything left hiding in the marshes will be isolated now.





Attachment (1)

(in reply to Shalkai)
Post #: 60
Page:   <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4   next >   >>
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> After Action Reports >> RE: 1st PvP+1st AAR, Shalkai (Axis) vs GamerDad (Soviet), v1.12.0x Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.193