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Was it too early for CMO?

 
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Was it too early for CMO? - 11/15/2019 3:32:54 PM   
morphin

 

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Hi
First Thank's for continous developpment and support for this genre.

I'm consider to go Back to CMANO. CMO is at this time hardly playable. (Mainly because of Performance in regards of
Loading speed (scenarios, start of the application, browsing and ordering the scenarios), Zoooming, loading of maps and opening different kind of windowss. but also some bugs)

I know that the developper are working hard to adresse this issues. but Honestly i'm a little bit disapointed.

I have a brand new Laptop with i7-9750H/GTX1165 and also a modern Desktop and a little bit older Laptop. But it is not hardware related. It is not optimized code i suppose

What are your experiences?
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RE: Was it too early for CMO? - 11/15/2019 3:35:57 PM   
thewood1

 

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I have almost the exact same rig and a Surface Book that runs CMNAO and CMO very well with no issues. So its not the code.

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RE: Was it too early for CMO? - 11/15/2019 3:37:03 PM   
IainMcNeil


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In general CMO is vastly quicker than CMANO. If there are issues they are specific hardware /software issues and conflicts not general performance issues. These have to be fixed case by case for the hardware specific problem. It is not about optimizing. I know it doesn't make it any less annoying if they happen to you but its not a general issue.

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RE: Was it too early for CMO? - 11/15/2019 3:42:52 PM   
mavfin

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: morphin

Hi
First Thank's for continous developpment and support for this genre.

I'm consider to go Back to CMANO. CMO is at this time hardly playable. (Mainly because of Performance in regards of
Loading speed (scenarios, start of the application, browsing and ordering the scenarios), Zoooming, loading of maps and opening different kind of windowss. but also some bugs)

I know that the developper are working hard to adresse this issues. but Honestly i'm a little bit disapointed.

I have a brand new Laptop with i7-9750H/GTX1165 and also a modern Desktop and a little bit older Laptop. But it is not hardware related. It is not optimized code i suppose

What are your experiences?

It's something on your machine or perhaps your AV? I have slightly less hardware than that, and can run Tacview along with it, no issues.

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RE: Was it too early for CMO? - 11/15/2019 3:45:20 PM   
morphin

 

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I have three Installations on 3 Computers. Previoulsy CMANO was running fine on thoose computers.
For example:
Loading time for CMO is about 18 seconds.. (Only untill the first screen to choose scenario appears after "Loading, please wait")
So that does CMO do in these 18 seconds?

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RE: Was it too early for CMO? - 11/15/2019 3:48:20 PM   
thewood1

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: morphin

Hi
First Thank's for continous developpment and support for this genre.

I'm consider to go Back to CMANO. CMO is at this time hardly playable. (Mainly because of Performance in regards of
Loading speed (scenarios, start of the application, browsing and ordering the scenarios), Zoooming, loading of maps and opening different kind of windowss. but also some bugs)

I know that the developper are working hard to adresse this issues. but Honestly i'm a little bit disapointed.

I have a brand new Laptop with i7-9750H/GTX1165 and also a modern Desktop and a little bit older Laptop. But it is not hardware related. It is not optimized code i suppose

What are your experiences?


ALso keep in mind, make sure you are using the nVidia card as the GPU. Not doing that will kill performance. I am assuming that is a 1665, not an 1165.

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RE: Was it too early for CMO? - 11/15/2019 4:00:51 PM   
AntoneT

 

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I have found CMO is a big improvement in performance compared to CMANO.

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RE: Was it too early for CMO? - 11/15/2019 4:08:03 PM   
LORDPrometheus

 

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I've noticed that CMO has the classic case of you can never find all the bugs until the live release syndrome. The devs and testers only have so many possible hardware and software configurations available and can't anticipate all the crazy things players will do. That being said the bugs I'm getting are somewhat annoying and I have made posts about them. I fully trust the devs to fix things up quickly but when the sensor arc bug from CMANO persists in the new game it is a little disheartening

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RE: Was it too early for CMO? - 11/15/2019 4:08:05 PM   
thewood1

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: morphin

I have three Installations on 3 Computers. Previoulsy CMANO was running fine on thoose computers.
For example:
Loading time for CMO is about 18 seconds.. (Only untill the first screen to choose scenario appears after "Loading, please wait")
So that does CMO do in these 18 seconds?



Fine vs. 18 sec.isn't much to go on.

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RE: Was it too early for CMO? - 11/15/2019 4:19:25 PM   
thewood1

 

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There is also a relatively big difference in Steam and non-Steam versions.

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RE: Was it too early for CMO? - 11/15/2019 4:22:56 PM   
mavfin

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1

There is also a relatively big difference in Steam and non-Steam versions.

You're saying one is faster than the other? I'm running the Steam version, and it's fast...

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RE: Was it too early for CMO? - 11/15/2019 4:30:27 PM   
IainMcNeil


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There should be absolutely no difference between Steam vs non Steam versions. If there is its likely some other process is interfering with one or the other.

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RE: Was it too early for CMO? - 11/15/2019 4:32:11 PM   
thewood1

 

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I have noticed a 4-5 second difference in Steam start up. In Steam you have to go through the Matrix dialog fist also. But even after that, there is the difference.

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RE: Was it too early for CMO? - 11/15/2019 4:36:44 PM   
mavfin

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1

I have noticed a 4-5 second difference in Steam start up. In Steam you have to go through the Matrix dialog fist also. But even after that, there is the difference.

Perhaps helped by update in

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4717096

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RE: Was it too early for CMO? - 11/15/2019 4:40:19 PM   
thewood1

 

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Just timed CMNAO, CMO, and CMO starting up on an i7-9750, nvidia 1665 ti, 32Gb RAM, and SSD...

CMNAO - 11s from icon click to main screen
CMO - 18s from double click on icon to main menu
CMO Steam - 24s from icon double click, through matrix dialog, to main menu

One of the biggest differences between CMO and CMNAO is loading the scenario. CMO is lightning fast loading the scenario compared to CMNAO.

I also did come timings of Op Brass Drum on all. CMO is 30-40% faster in processing the game at its fastest over CMNAO.

So overall, CMO takes a little more time (6-7 seconds) to load the game from a dead stop, but its incredibly faster load and running scenarios.

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RE: Was it too early for CMO? - 11/15/2019 5:07:29 PM   
stolowski

 

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CMO is super smooth and big improvement over CMANO in my experience. I'm playing on a ~3yr old Alienware laptop with 16GB RAM and nvidia geforce 970m. It is so much more responsive than CMANO. I think the announcement of the new version says about better use of multi-core CPUs, which is a big plus, and clearly visible. For me - great update, also because of all the gameplay and UI improvements. I don't particularly care about startup time (I don't know if it's better or worse) since you typically start the game once, and then stay in the game for several hours
Big thumbs up for CMO!

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RE: Was it too early for CMO? - 11/15/2019 5:43:19 PM   
thewood1

 

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Yeah, the 6-7 seconds really don't seem like a big deal to me.

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RE: Was it too early for CMO? - 11/15/2019 5:47:01 PM   
Paveiv

 

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Performance wise, it seems to me much better than the previous game. And right now I am on notebook, i5-7200U with MX150 and 8GB RAM. But altough under the hood I bet is infinitely better game, I still do not like some of the changes (UI mostly) so downloading the old cmano right now.

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RE: Was it too early for CMO? - 11/15/2019 5:56:08 PM   
Darren_H_slith

 

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I also have an ~ 3 year old Alienware 15 R3. 16 GB RAM and a 1TB SSD. The CPU is an Intel I5 7300HQ at 2.50Ghz and an NVIDIA 1050.
It's no best in class system, and I upgraded the RAM and installed the SSD - which made a hefty improvement overall in Windows 10 performance. CMO runs really well for me. The biggest improvement is general smoothness, especially the map and scrolling. I agree with stolowski, I really have not noticed a massive change in load time. I'll be trying "Don of a New Era" today, because when I used to play on CMANO, once you get 200+ Tomahawk's flying and the Russians launch SAM's it used to bring my system to a crawl.


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RE: Was it too early for CMO? - 11/15/2019 6:49:58 PM   
guanotwozero

 

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I'm running on an 8-year old PC with i7-3930K @3.2 (OC@4.2) & 32GB RAM, now with a GTX 1080Ti.

I've not benchmarked anything, but CMO seems reasonably zippy - it definitely feels a bit better than CMANO. I'm perfectly happy with such performance.

I also installed it on my SurfacePro i7-7660U @2.5 & 16GB RAM with IrisPlus 640 gfx. It's not as zippy there, but still runs acceptably. Again a bit better than CMANO.

So no complaints!

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RE: Was it too early for CMO? - 11/15/2019 6:58:19 PM   
thewood1

 

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From the wargamer quick review...

"To test it I ran two fairly big scenarios ‘Don of a new Era’ and ‘Hail Mary’ (from Chains of War) for sixty seconds of real time in both CMANO and CMO. I ran the simulations without making any orders, so only the AI routines were running. CMANO was set to run at its maximum time acceleration (x1800, although my computer never comes close to this) and with no pulse. CMO was set to ‘warp speed’. In the sixty seconds of real time CMANO managed to run 778 simulated seconds in ‘Don’ and 675 simulated seconds in ‘Hail Mary’. CMO ran 959 simulated seconds in ‘Don’ and 847 simulated seconds in ‘Hail Mary’"

https://www.wargamer.com/reviews/command-modern-operations/

The 25% number is pretty much in line with my 30% number.

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RE: Was it too early for CMO? - 11/15/2019 7:33:14 PM   
LORDPrometheus

 

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Performance wise everything is better in CMO with one major exception. Because the maps are downloaded and diacared constantly loading the imagery is super slow and it frequently just gives up and disappears. I would greatly prefer the option to cache at least some of it on my computer so that things don't keep disappearing and then never loading again or loading when I go to a new region

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RE: Was it too early for CMO? - 11/15/2019 8:04:05 PM   
cdnice


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Definitely better performing than CMANO. Map cache would be a nice option down the road.

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RE: Was it too early for CMO? - 11/15/2019 8:34:48 PM   
mavfin

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LORDPrometheus

Performance wise everything is better in CMO with one major exception. Because the maps are downloaded and diacared constantly loading the imagery is super slow and it frequently just gives up and disappears. I would greatly prefer the option to cache at least some of it on my computer so that things don't keep disappearing and then never loading again or loading when I go to a new region

What's your bandwidth like? I'm not having this issue at all, but I've got 45 Mbit DSL, and it's pretty solid...

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RE: Was it too early for CMO? - 11/15/2019 8:48:51 PM   
Primarchx


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I'd say that CMO is a little slow out of the gates but I am also confident that the game will be supported and improvements will happen.

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RE: Was it too early for CMO? - 11/15/2019 8:50:18 PM   
KnightHawk75

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: morphin
...
What are your experiences?

Largely the same as yours, will wait a month to reassess, for now it's back to old reliable cmano while issues are sorted (both with the game and potentially my own system perhaps). I have some faith most things will get resolved in short enough order.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LORDPrometheus

...
Because the maps are downloaded and diacared constantly loading the imagery is super slow and it frequently just gives up and disappears.

Looking though the \WW folder structure and monitoring size while browsing around the earth last night, seems what does get looked at with whatever layers enabled, does get cached on disk, or at least most of it seems too.

I mean just looking around atlanta and dallas at different zoom levels(~3000meters) with staman sat + terrain +city\road data enabled added a couple hundred meg in those folders of data for example over ~5 minutes. Though having it there doesn't seem to make it too much faster in appearing, but maybe that was more perception then reality in my very limited testing.




< Message edited by KnightHawk75 -- 11/15/2019 8:51:33 PM >

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RE: Was it too early for CMO? - 11/15/2019 9:03:22 PM   
thewood1

 

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You know you can turn off the overlays, right? You can use the default map, which is actually better than CMNAO.

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RE: Was it too early for CMO? - 11/18/2019 3:13:48 AM   
LargeDiameterBomb

 

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I have the exact same experience as LORDPrometheus, overall good performance, much faster loading times than CMANO and game seems to run smooth, but maps in scenarios are frequently download very slow or even stops downloading completely and I am using a 100/10 Mbit downstream/upstream fiber line connected by Ethernet cable to my moden/router/computer setup and normally reaches download speeds of 12-13 Megabyte per second, so I figure the problem shouldn't be on my end here.

Also, it doesn't seem like map caching (That somebody here said was used) is working as intended. I have CMO installed on a 500 Gb SSD with 90 % available space (In preparation for the release of CMO as I read that maps would be around half a terabyte) but even when I have managed to download a map of a certain area changing back to that same map in that same area at a later time can take a very long time or not appear at all.

EDIT: Especially the map that shows what different terrain types an area is composed of (I can't remember it's name now but it's the one which shows which areas are urban, needlewood forests, shrublands etc) seems to have a problem both downloading and loading from cache.

< Message edited by LargeDiameterBomb -- 11/18/2019 6:57:03 AM >

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RE: Was it too early for CMO? - 11/18/2019 8:44:04 AM   
IainMcNeil


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Bear in mind there are 13 zoom levels and each zoom level is downloaded independently so you wold have to look at the entire map at all 13 zoom levels to cache everything and not hit the server again.

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RE: Was it too early for CMO? - 11/18/2019 1:21:24 PM   
LargeDiameterBomb

 

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Thanks for the information. Caching probably works as intended then as I wasn't aware of so many levels of the maps being available.

If the download issues persists, especially with the terrain type map most often not loading at all, and/or I am absolutely sure there is an issue with the maps not loading from cache I shall start a thread in the bug report part of the forum instead.

Thanks for the great work you guys are doing.

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