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A Mind of Their Own - 11/10/2019 6:35:00 PM   
MemoryLeak


Posts: 357
Joined: 12/4/2000
From: Woodland, CA USA
Status: offline
Hi,

I purchased this game the day it was released but never played it. I don't think there was a manual at that time and I couldn't figure it out.
So goodbye $80 and on the shelf it went.

But I see a new version is coming out on Thursday. I watched the twitch video on Saturday and it reminded me of the old Harpoon game that I bought back in the 80's.

One reason it remined me of it was two problems the guy had that was giving the demonstration. His strike aircraft that was attacking the Soviet surface group wouldn't attack.
Then he remembered to turn on their radar. The second thing was that the aircraft launched one salvo and headed for home. He had to do a few things to convince them to make another attack run.
And of course they were always low on fuel.

Are there any setting in the new version that make the pilots smart enough to turn on their own radar systems when nearing the target?
And is there a setting which will make the pilots fire more than one salvo at the designated target?

Those two things plus an impossibility of EVER getting a plane to rendezvous with a tanker was extremely annoying.

_____________________________

If you want to make GOD laugh, tell him your future plans

USS Long Beach CGN-9
RM2 1969-1973
Post #: 1
RE: A Mind of Their Own - 11/10/2019 6:51:04 PM   
Raptorx7_slith

 

Posts: 374
Joined: 7/27/2013
Status: online
Ill address these point by point:

1. Setting proper radar behavior for your units is simple and has been in since the beginning of the game

2. You can choose how many weapons your units will fire at targets very easily

3. Its extremely simple to get a plane to refuel

Not sure why the streamer had these issues but none of them have been a problem with the game at any point.

(in reply to MemoryLeak)
Post #: 2
RE: A Mind of Their Own - 11/10/2019 7:10:14 PM   
thewood1

 

Posts: 4466
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: online
You have an incredible array of tools to determine AI behavior as a player and as a scenario designer. But it requires practice and using the learning resources available to you. If you are building your own mission, its kind of a blank slate. You have to know EMCOM, Weapon Release settings, transit and egress settings, tanker/refueling settings, ROE/doctrine, etc. to get the units to perform the mission the you, as the commander want to.

90% of the work is in the planning and 10% is the execution.

(in reply to Raptorx7_slith)
Post #: 3
RE: A Mind of Their Own - 11/10/2019 7:15:13 PM   
ultradave


Posts: 1237
Joined: 8/20/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1


90% of the work is in the planning and 10% is the execution.


This is pretty much a universal truth. Just pick any reasonably complex subject :-)


_____________________________

----------------
Dave A.
"When the Boogeyman goes to sleep he checks his closet for paratroopers"

(in reply to thewood1)
Post #: 4
RE: A Mind of Their Own - 11/10/2019 7:32:42 PM   
ultradave


Posts: 1237
Joined: 8/20/2013
Status: offline
Also, you have to have some understanding of your weapons. Are they fire and forget, to they require illumination (and is it by firing unit or can it take an outside "signal"). Or are they dumb. That information is in the database. And as wood1 said, WRA has a huge bearing on what attackers will do on the attack. You do have to manage your own EMCON for the most part. Note that he was demonstrating something else while the attackers were in the area to attack and not actively managing what was going on there.

Additionally, there is a manual for C:MANO, and a fairly extensive supplement on line at warfaresim.com that covers many (admittedly not all) of the additional features that have been added. The manual is located in the Manuals directory of the installation and there is a link right there to the online supplement.

The manual for CMO has already been made available. It's good reading and besides a listing of how all commands and options work, there is quite a lot of helpful information on why things work the way they do, and the effects that choices make - somewhat similar to the old Harpoon strategy guide in giving some hints as to how to employ systems. Good info. Well worth reading the whole manual (doesn't take that long - it's 280 pp, but they are small pages).

Kushan's CMO stream was pretty quick and dirty, obviously intended to show many of the features and options. It didn't appear he spent a lot of time before running it deciding what he wanted to do and setting up, or being familiar with platforms and weapons. No criticism intended - that's not why he was running the stream. It wasn't a demo of how to play that scenario, but a demo of CMO features using a reasonable sized scenario and he did a good job of that.

If you haven't yet I'd suggest reading through the announcements for CMO, the developers interviews, and the manual. Your answers are there.

Can't tell what your issue has been with tankers, but it works for me. Best way to get questions answered is to post a message with a save in the forum. You'll find that there are usually several people who will download and take a look for you to see if they can figure it out. Plus the developers.

Hope that helps.

_____________________________

----------------
Dave A.
"When the Boogeyman goes to sleep he checks his closet for paratroopers"

(in reply to ultradave)
Post #: 5
RE: A Mind of Their Own - 11/10/2019 8:27:03 PM   
MemoryLeak


Posts: 357
Joined: 12/4/2000
From: Woodland, CA USA
Status: offline
I was going by Saturday's demonstration and assumed he knew the game mechanics so that the issues he encountered were going to be issues for everyone.
I plan on buying the new version.

And I think I am correct in saying that at the time of release (2013?)there was no game manual available. In fact I remember making a post to that effect and everyone replied I was in the wrong for even thinking there should be a manual. How old fashion of me.



_____________________________

If you want to make GOD laugh, tell him your future plans

USS Long Beach CGN-9
RM2 1969-1973

(in reply to ultradave)
Post #: 6
RE: A Mind of Their Own - 11/10/2019 8:34:57 PM   
ultradave


Posts: 1237
Joined: 8/20/2013
Status: offline
It's been so long I can't remember for sure, but I thought there was. Maybe that there was no printed hard copy manual? Not sure. Maybe someone else has better memory.

_____________________________

----------------
Dave A.
"When the Boogeyman goes to sleep he checks his closet for paratroopers"

(in reply to MemoryLeak)
Post #: 7
RE: A Mind of Their Own - 11/10/2019 9:33:18 PM   
Rob322

 

Posts: 442
Joined: 8/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MemoryLeak

I was going by Saturday's demonstration and assumed he knew the game mechanics so that the issues he encountered were going to be issues for everyone.
I plan on buying the new version.

And I think I am correct in saying that at the time of release (2013?)there was no game manual available. In fact I remember making a post to that effect and everyone replied I was in the wrong for even thinking there should be a manual. How old fashion of me.




I was an early customer (maybe not first day but first week) and I can’t remember a time where there wasn’t a manual. Still, that was six years ago. This version of the game comes out Thursday but I’ve been reviewing the manual since early last week.

(in reply to MemoryLeak)
Post #: 8
RE: A Mind of Their Own - 11/10/2019 9:49:07 PM   
thewood1

 

Posts: 4466
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: online
I was a first day buyer. There was a manual and already a lot of manual supplements on warfaresim's website...sheesh.

(in reply to Rob322)
Post #: 9
RE: A Mind of Their Own - 11/10/2019 10:09:06 PM   
1nutworld

 

Posts: 162
Joined: 4/13/2014
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MemoryLeak

I was going by Saturday's demonstration and assumed he knew the game mechanics so that the issues he encountered were going to be issues for everyone.
I plan on buying the new version.

And I think I am correct in saying that at the time of release (2013?)there was no game manual available. In fact I remember making a post to that effect and everyone replied I was in the wrong for even thinking there should be a manual. How old fashion of me.




This is as complex of a simulation as you will find. This isn't a "pick the manual up, leaf thru it, and fire it up to play" game. In this sim you are combining aspects of military action that it takes time to master. But between the forums on here, and the manual that you can download for free, you can begin to understand the complexity before you decide to purchase this time around, if you do, or not.

I know there are many people that want this to be easy, and the bottom line is it is not, so this isn't for everyone. But if you work at it when you can and have some time, you will learn....it's possible. Just be prepared to have to learn.

There's a reason the military has invested in the PE version of this to train people to fight in the modern era.


_____________________________

USS Dwight D. Eisenhower (CVN-69) 1990-1994.

(in reply to MemoryLeak)
Post #: 10
RE: A Mind of Their Own - 11/10/2019 10:10:33 PM   
JOhnnyr

 

Posts: 133
Joined: 4/14/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MemoryLeak

Hi,

I purchased this game the day it was released but never played it. I don't think there was a manual at that time and I couldn't figure it out.
So goodbye $80 and on the shelf it went.

But I see a new version is coming out on Thursday. I watched the twitch video on Saturday and it reminded me of the old Harpoon game that I bought back in the 80's.

One reason it remined me of it was two problems the guy had that was giving the demonstration. His strike aircraft that was attacking the Soviet surface group wouldn't attack.
Then he remembered to turn on their radar. The second thing was that the aircraft launched one salvo and headed for home. He had to do a few things to convince them to make another attack run.
And of course they were always low on fuel.

Are there any setting in the new version that make the pilots smart enough to turn on their own radar systems when nearing the target?
And is there a setting which will make the pilots fire more than one salvo at the designated target?

Those two things plus an impossibility of EVER getting a plane to rendezvous with a tanker was extremely annoying.


One thing you will learn quickly about CMANO is that the people fueling up the jets have one goal: put enough fuel in so that the aircraft can get just to the edge of the AO, then RTB due to bingo fuel. They LIVE for it.

(in reply to MemoryLeak)
Post #: 11
RE: A Mind of Their Own - 11/10/2019 10:40:25 PM   
Kushan04


Posts: 356
Joined: 6/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MemoryLeak

Hi,

I purchased this game the day it was released but never played it. I don't think there was a manual at that time and I couldn't figure it out.
So goodbye $80 and on the shelf it went.

But I see a new version is coming out on Thursday. I watched the twitch video on Saturday and it reminded me of the old Harpoon game that I bought back in the 80's.

One reason it remined me of it was two problems the guy had that was giving the demonstration. His strike aircraft that was attacking the Soviet surface group wouldn't attack.
Then he remembered to turn on their radar. The second thing was that the aircraft launched one salvo and headed for home. He had to do a few things to convince them to make another attack run.
And of course they were always low on fuel.

Are there any setting in the new version that make the pilots smart enough to turn on their own radar systems when nearing the target?
And is there a setting which will make the pilots fire more than one salvo at the designated target?

Those two things plus an impossibility of EVER getting a plane to rendezvous with a tanker was extremely annoying.


1) The aircraft that returned home had already fired their harpoons and HARMS. They were doing what they were supposed to be doing. No use in hanging around just to be shot at. The aircraft I had to manually take control of had shorter range ASuW missiles and by the time they got their original fire point the soviet SAG had moved outside their weapons range.

2) As far as I can remember I didn't have any radar issues with my strike aircraft. The only thing I can remember about radars was one group of Tomcats I was retasking from a different mission to go kill a badger.

3) The strike was ok on fuel. I did launch them kind of far away. had I been playing on my won I would have closed the distance between my carrier battle group and the soviet SAG more but I had a two hour time window for the stream and I wanted to keep things moving. The only fuel "issue" I had was a group of Tomcats I really wanted to retask but they had already conducted their BARCAP mission and where bingo fuel. No tankers in this scenario and the Tomcat is a notorious fuel guzzler.

4) Tanker rendezvous AI got improved a LONG time ago.

_____________________________


(in reply to MemoryLeak)
Post #: 12
RE: A Mind of Their Own - 11/10/2019 10:40:44 PM   
ultradave


Posts: 1237
Joined: 8/20/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1

I was a first day buyer. There was a manual and already a lot of manual supplements on warfaresim's website...sheesh.


Yeah, I thought so, but obviously after all the updates the directories look pretty different but I was pretty sure I remember reading about convergence zones right off the bat (I design the propulsion plants, but I don't ride 'em so I don't know much about that coner stuff :-) ).

Right now there is the manual, in several forms, a link to the on line supplement and all the Live briefings and a link to the forum new players start here. Pretty much everything you'd need.

< Message edited by ultradave -- 11/10/2019 10:41:54 PM >


_____________________________

----------------
Dave A.
"When the Boogeyman goes to sleep he checks his closet for paratroopers"

(in reply to thewood1)
Post #: 13
RE: A Mind of Their Own - 11/10/2019 11:20:01 PM   
thewood1

 

Posts: 4466
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: online
When people can't find something to complain about, they'll make stuff up.

(in reply to ultradave)
Post #: 14
RE: A Mind of Their Own - 11/10/2019 11:25:29 PM   
TheOriginalOverlord

 

Posts: 401
Joined: 6/20/2000
From: The Marines
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rob322

quote:

ORIGINAL: MemoryLeak

I was going by Saturday's demonstration and assumed he knew the game mechanics so that the issues he encountered were going to be issues for everyone.
I plan on buying the new version.

And I think I am correct in saying that at the time of release (2013?)there was no game manual available. In fact I remember making a post to that effect and everyone replied I was in the wrong for even thinking there should be a manual. How old fashion of me.




I was an early customer (maybe not first day but first week) and I can’t remember a time where there wasn’t a manual. Still, that was six years ago. This version of the game comes out Thursday but I’ve been reviewing the manual since early last week.

Anything major to lookout for?


Or since I've been playing from the beginning...there shouldn't be any surprises?

_____________________________

Semper Fi!

Jeremy


(in reply to Rob322)
Post #: 15
RE: A Mind of Their Own - 11/11/2019 1:45:43 AM   
Rob322

 

Posts: 442
Joined: 8/16/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheOriginalOverlord


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rob322

quote:

ORIGINAL: MemoryLeak

I was going by Saturday's demonstration and assumed he knew the game mechanics so that the issues he encountered were going to be issues for everyone.
I plan on buying the new version.

And I think I am correct in saying that at the time of release (2013?)there was no game manual available. In fact I remember making a post to that effect and everyone replied I was in the wrong for even thinking there should be a manual. How old fashion of me.




I was an early customer (maybe not first day but first week) and I can’t remember a time where there wasn’t a manual. Still, that was six years ago. This version of the game comes out Thursday but I’ve been reviewing the manual since early last week.

Anything major to lookout for?


Or since I've been playing from the beginning...there shouldn't be any surprises?


No, if you’ve been following along with the previews you shouldn’t be surprised.

(in reply to TheOriginalOverlord)
Post #: 16
RE: A Mind of Their Own - 11/11/2019 3:47:52 AM   
goodwoodrw


Posts: 2536
Joined: 2/14/2005
Status: offline
Not only did the original sim come a 140 page Paper back manual, your disc had your name and serial number on it as well. Pretty cool. I been a harpooner since 1989 when bought first game for the Amiga. CMANO/CMO has evolved from the stone age to the modern tech age at very little cost to the gamer, (more than we can say about some other games out there) so a discounted CMO for owners of of CMANO seems fair to me, along with a manual almost 3 times the size of the original. Wow!!!

_____________________________

Formerly Goodwood


(in reply to Rob322)
Post #: 17
RE: A Mind of Their Own - 11/12/2019 9:02:21 PM   
Michael7619


Posts: 50
Joined: 5/16/2014
From: Europe
Status: offline
Bought the game maybe 3 months after release. I do remember some problems with tankers at some point. Anyway the number of small and large patches is huge and difference between the game at release and today is so big that you could say it is a different game. At some point a found 20 patch directorys at my computer before i deleted old ones.

Anyway waiting for the release, this time it wont take 3 months before i crap it.

(in reply to goodwoodrw)
Post #: 18
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