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Long Range Artillery Fire Support & Counter-Battery

 
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Long Range Artillery Fire Support & Counter-Battery - 11/9/2019 1:52:02 PM   
rob89

 

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Hi all,

The battalions of heavy/long range artillery (for ex., 170mm K18, range 32400m), aggregated to high level HQs, should fire from distance and, theoretically, should not suffer losses if the Soviets do not have equal-range artillery or air missions.

Instead, it often happens that these units suffer gun losses during the battle (not attrition).

How is it possible?
How does the fire support of artillery units work?
and the counter-battery-fire?

thanks in advance
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RE: Long Range Artillery Fire Support & Counter-Battery - 11/9/2019 4:41:22 PM   
Telemecus


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My guess is as a practical matter artillery rarely fired at its longest range. If being attacked (or counter-attacked) ultimately even infantry can close on and engage artillery with personal weapons - and this did historically happen. Part of the skill, organisation and luck of artillery command is knowing when to disengage before this happens at the cost of no longer providing support in the battle.

War in the East does model this. The artillery with the longest range is the first to fire. If you watch a battle report on a high message level you can see this happen. If you are brave enough try it on message level 7!!!

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RE: Long Range Artillery Fire Support & Counter-Battery - 11/10/2019 11:05:01 AM   
rob89

 

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sorry,
I find it hard to share your opinion

The long range heavy artillery logic was exactly the counter-battery fire from stand-off positions
and its natural enemies were opposing long-range artillery and planes.
In the absence of these, it was unlikely to suffer losses (see Ian V. Hogg, German artillery of WW2)

IMHO, the problem is exactly in the game mechanics.

regards

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RE: Long Range Artillery Fire Support & Counter-Battery - 11/10/2019 2:18:03 PM   
juv95hrn

 

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Counter battery fire was common during WWII, but due to limited technological solutions was rarely very efficient. Artillery took most losses during unplanned retreats, encirclements and extreme situations. I believe WITE makes a decent job of simulating this, but its not perfect.

Does artillery have the same chance to get hit, later in the combat procedure, than other categories? I think losses over all simulate production and losses reasonably well over all, even if the exact combat mechanics might not be super realistic?

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RE: Long Range Artillery Fire Support & Counter-Battery - 11/10/2019 2:34:11 PM   
Telemecus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juv95hrn
Does artillery have the same chance to get hit, later in the combat procedure, than other categories? I think losses over all simulate production and losses reasonably well over all, even if the exact combat mechanics might not be super realistic?


As I understand the combat resolution as it goes from longest range to shortest range it will match any elements randomly. So yes the longest range will get to shoot first, but then at shortest range any element can get matched to any other element with the same probabilities. I assume in real life local commanders increased the chances that your anti tank guns, say, went to fight tanks and not infantry say. My reading of the previous post by rob89 was that it was extremely rare for artillery to be confronted by infantry at short range - although I certainly know of examples where it did happen. But at least what I understand of the WITE battle resolution mechanism as it gets to short range is there is no extra probability that artillery will NOT be engaged in short range combat over other units like infantry that are meant for it.

I know there have been lots of posts about whether manpower or AFV losses globally in games match historical losses. I have not seen that for artillery so would be interested to know. Often the losses of individual battles does not matter too much as the game uses attrition in the logistics phase to get to the desired outcome. So I guess even if the artillery losses in individual battles is too high or too low that will also just be balanced out by artillery losses (or lack of them) in the logistics phase?

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