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IJN warship production acceleration - 11/8/2019 3:55:23 PM   
BillBrown


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I am looking for some general guidelines on how much the Japanese can accelerate their warships.
Particularly the CV/CVLs. They have a number that normally arrive in 1944 and I am wondering
how much they can be advanced. I was thinking that about 12 months would be a fair estimate, but
since I have not gotten into even January 1942 as japan, I am not sure.
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RE: IJN warship production acceleration - 11/8/2019 4:57:01 PM   
Chickenboy


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In general, you must sacrifice "something" to significantly advance IJN CV/CVL production.

For *me*, I like to have all of my carriers available during or before 1943. Production of carriers not slated to arrive until mid-1945 is superfluous. You can select the carriers that are due in early 1944 (Unryu-class, IIRC) and accelerate those into 1943, while stopping the production (or at least waiting until all your 1943 targets are off the slips) of anything due after mid-1944. I believe that I can get 3 Unryus and the Shinano pulled forward with available naval points into 1943. (Note: Shinano in Sc. 2 is a Taiho class, much more manageable to accelerate than the default Sc. 1 Shinano monster). That would leave the final CV/CVLs on the ship building list as Ibuki and Kasagi-both slated to arrive 1945-and the late war CVEs (that are accelerated on Merchant shipyard points anyways).

Mushashi is a real Naval Shipyard points hog. If you turn her off (or at least delay construction until after the CVs/CVLs you want are built), that will save you 233 Naval Shipyard points that could go towards your CV acceleration.

YMMV and there's a lot of ways to skin this cat. But it's entirely possible to have 15-18 CVs/CVLs in your OOB in 1943, just in time for the 'Decisive battle'!

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RE: IJN warship production acceleration - 11/8/2019 6:36:10 PM   
BillBrown


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Maybe I should point out that I am the Allies and this is scenario 100( scenario 1 updated by AndyMac )
I am just trying to see what I "might" be facing later in the game. We are just into September 1942.
But, that is very good information CB, thank you.

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RE: IJN warship production acceleration - 11/8/2019 7:05:34 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BillBrown

Maybe I should point out that I am the Allies and this is scenario 100( scenario 1 updated by AndyMac )



Ugh. In that case, forget everything I just said. Japan's shipbuilding strength in 1943 is terrible! You shouldn't see more than a handful of CVEs at sea. Feel free to disperse the Allied "Death Star" and mop them up individually.








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RE: IJN warship production acceleration - 11/8/2019 8:21:15 PM   
Miller


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A smart IJN player should accelerate all the Unyru class CVs (I think six in total) as it's relatively cheap to do so. I think even just halting the Shinano pays for most of them. That's what I tend to do anyway.

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RE: IJN warship production acceleration - 11/8/2019 9:13:00 PM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller

A smart IJN player should accelerate all the Unyru class CVs (I think six in total) as it's relatively cheap to do so. I think even just halting the Shinano pays for most of them. That's what I tend to do anyway.


You'll need to wait until Yamato is out (or turn her off).

I typically slow down some subs, and you really can't accelerate all of the CVs until Hiyo/Junyo are out - if not Musashi as well.

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RE: IJN warship production acceleration - 11/8/2019 9:37:01 PM   
Miller


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller

A smart IJN player should accelerate all the Unyru class CVs (I think six in total) as it's relatively cheap to do so. I think even just halting the Shinano pays for most of them. That's what I tend to do anyway.


You'll need to wait until Yamato is out (or turn her off).

I typically slow down some subs, and you really can't accelerate all of the CVs until Hiyo/Junyo are out - if not Musashi as well.


I agree with the sub slowdown, each one costs a third of an Unyru CV. There is no great urgency to get Yamato and Musashi into service either.

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RE: IJN warship production acceleration - 11/8/2019 11:01:07 PM   
BillBrown


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It would seem that my 12 month estimate is close to what can happen, but maybe a few might get out a bit faster.

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RE: IJN warship production acceleration - 11/10/2019 1:24:03 AM   
spence

 

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As Allies I sank the CVs Amagi, Unryu and Katsuragi during June/July 1943 so it would seem your estimate of roughly a year advance on construction is about right. I have not encountered any other new construction since and the game is now in Jan 1944.

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RE: IJN warship production acceleration - 11/12/2019 12:01:46 PM   
ITAKLinus

 

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If it can help these are my calculations for Scen1 in my current PBEM where I have accelerated basically every CV (a part from Shinano).

The dates are the expected dates for CVs to arrive. CS conversions to CVLs are not accurate though.

[image][/image]


In line of principle I should have quantitative superiority in terms of embarked a/c until the first half of 1944. Clearly, the quality is another story...



Hope it helps! (and hope my calculations are correct!)








My calculations have been pretty easy:

I calculated the number of days between 07/12/1941 and the expected arrival date with no acceleration.
Then I divided these days by two.
Finally, I added the result to 07/12 in order to get the expected arrival date.

That's the list. The rightmost column tells you the compounded amount of embarked a/c without taking into consideration the possibility of loading CVs up to 110%, so it's just the 100% capacity.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by ITAKLinus -- 11/12/2019 12:05:11 PM >


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RE: IJN warship production acceleration - 11/13/2019 7:56:08 PM   
Skyros


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Yankee propaganda
quote:

ORIGINAL: spence

As Allies I sank the CVs Amagi, Unryu and Katsuragi during June/July 1943 so it would seem your estimate of roughly a year advance on construction is about right. I have not encountered any other new construction since and the game is now in Jan 1944.


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RE: IJN warship production acceleration - 11/14/2019 12:19:40 AM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Skyros

Yankee propaganda
quote:

ORIGINAL: spence

As Allies I sank the CVs Amagi, Unryu and Katsuragi during June/July 1943 so it would seem your estimate of roughly a year advance on construction is about right. I have not encountered any other new construction since and the game is now in Jan 1944.




Meh. As Allies, I sank the Hiryu, Zuikaku and Shokaku (without loss of my own) in January 1942. Anything is possible against the AI.

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RE: IJN warship production acceleration - 11/14/2019 2:56:44 AM   
spence

 

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My opp wishes it was just against the AI or Yankee Propaganda.

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RE: IJN warship production acceleration - 11/15/2019 1:08:53 PM   
Alpha77

 

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I am accelerating all DDs and E classes already. The Musashi is stopped. Still I cannot speed up more then 1 CV.. However it seems the worth of IJN subs really decreases in 43+, so the idea to stop some of the subs sounds sound. There is a sub class with the older type89 torps as well one with only 2 torps (both are slow and low range), guess there is no real use for the one (HA class?) with only 2 torps and a gun. I had a Fletcher (perhaps a bit damaged before?) most lickely sunk by a type 89 torp tho (I hope so at least untill the dreaded "unsunk" messages).. but I lost quite a bit of subs (luckily mostly the RO classes).

I am now also sorry I lost the Yamato already, I found now a good use for both ships, as floating coastal batteries at worthy bases with big airfields. This is also does not cost so much fuel for them....I would like to build the Musashi but too expensive.

The Yamato + company was send in a bombardement mission in the Salomones, but stumbled across 2 big Allied fleets, at least better then in reality it took an old USN BB with it (Utah?) and the battle animations were quite exciting to watch..

I have to say the DD losses I suffered (PBM IJ) hurt the most, especially that I myself sunk 4 Shimakaze DDs by neclecting them air support, still hurting....these did quite ok vs. Fletchers. This is scen2 and I will get a few more Shimakazes but these 4 ships also had good exp from former fights (in the 80ties ). Also 2 good DDs sunk by PTs Allied secret weapon... and 3 or 4 older DDs plus 2 older CLs sunk by Fletcher fleet. I apparently made another mistake by docking them to refuel/rearm, but I forgot to undock (would be cool if the game engine would do this automaticly), so they were sitting ducks.

< Message edited by Alpha77 -- 11/15/2019 1:30:58 PM >

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RE: IJN warship production acceleration - 11/26/2019 3:23:10 PM   
ITAKLinus

 

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I strongly advise you against the idea of the floating battery. 90% of the times, the Allied will just come with a big CV fleet and kill everything. And there are very few places which should have an air defence capable of resisting a full blow from allied CVs.

What I mean is that you put your Musashi/Yamato somewhere. Then you have to protect it with billions of fighters.
And there is no such a place which is worth such a big investment in fighters.


Most of the places in the Salomons, for example, can be protected with careful base development. F.ex.: I do not build up Tulagi, rather than Thousand Ships Bay which can be protected mining nearby bases and it has a good terrain.


Just an example.



Returning in topic: subs consume a huge amount of NavalPoints. Keep an eye to their production.
Moreover, most of the DDs and Es you say you have accelerated are probably not accelerated at all: most of them come later on and at the beginning they are "grey", meaning their production hasn't started yet and cannot be accelerated.
Or maybe I haven't got your date and you're not in '42?



EDIT: also, DDs are the probably the most problematic element for IJN. And also their range hurts a lot, since many many many DDs are not really useful in fleet duties due to low range.
I always highlight the fact that DDs should be prioritized together with CVs, especially if you have had high losses.

< Message edited by ITAKLinus -- 11/26/2019 3:25:49 PM >


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RE: IJN warship production acceleration - 11/26/2019 4:51:16 PM   
Alpha77

 

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I am in May 43 (PBM), I lost quite a lot of DDs sadly also some good ones like Shimakaze.

The DDs are accelerated, there are 2 states: The 1st state costs "only" double the nav points, but when they are nearer to completion than it costs 3x nav. Eg. a Yugumo costs than 30 points EDIT: PER TURN of course. The basic cost is 10, with "normal" acceleration is doubled. Acceleration nearer to lauch of the ship would cost additional 10 points. So you get the 30 per turn.

Luckily this is scen2 so we get some extra ships...

Yes, the floating coastal battery thing can be risky as the Yamato class is a) weaker then in reality it seems, as I have seen battles where they succumb to eg. 2 torp hits. b) it is large so easy to hit.

However the defense relying on mines is flawed, the Allies have so many small minesweepers, they can sail around and detect mines quite easily. And if they lose 2-3 YMS or AMcs no big deal for them, if they have found and even cleared some mines. Also sadly terrain/forts do not protect much vs. bombardements, I mean mostly airfields and planes will be trashed even with high forts or good terrain. Also the Allies navguns have a bit bigger effect and anti soft value (which I guess are the main effects for bombardements) then IJN ones. A few US CLs/DDs can cause quite some damage with good luck and weather..



< Message edited by Alpha77 -- 11/27/2019 12:56:29 PM >

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RE: IJN warship production acceleration - 11/27/2019 10:15:29 AM   
ITAKLinus

 

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quote:

However the defense relying on mines is flawed, the Allies have so many small minesweepers, they can sail around and detect mines quite easily. And if they lose 2-3 YMS or AMcs no big deal for them, if they have found and even cleared some mines. Also sadly terrain/forts do not protect much vs. bombardements, I mean mostly airfields and planes will be trashed even with high forts or good terrain. Also the Allies navguns have a bit bigger effect and anti soft value (which I guess are the main effects for bombardements) then IJN ones. A few US CLs/DDs can cause quite some damage with good luck and weather..



Do you see much alternative to the mine+CD approach? I extensively used DDs as well, but losses were unbearable. Same with MTBs. Then I switched to mines+CD&hope-for-the-best and it went better. Quite expensive, though.
Problem being that most of the most important locations are impossible to protect in this way.

Mines+CDs at least give you some more time before everything gets trashed. And they're quite reliable.

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RE: IJN warship production acceleration - 11/27/2019 11:34:28 AM   
Alpha77

 

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Nope I do not see a secret idea I have which I could share - however one thing is clear everything depends on air. Btw. I had also written this thread here relating to the problem:

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4721321&mpage=1&key=�

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