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Why do I have to replay the same map over and over again?

 
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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Close Combat – The Bloody First >> Why do I have to replay the same map over and over again? Page: [1]
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Why do I have to replay the same map over and over again? - 11/2/2019 10:40:35 PM   
nikolascc

 

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Why do I have to replay the same map over and over again? This happens on almost every single battle I do in the campaign in which we have to attack. I'm doing really well, taking ground and killing the enemy, then when I'm getting close, the battle ends and I have to replay the same map from where i left off! It's infuriating. This happens maybe 3-4 times on the SAME map. Like, just let me play and finish the battle! Stop ending it when I'm 5/6ths of the way through it, only having me to play it again with the defenders only having a corner.
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RE: Why do I have to replay the same map over and over ... - 11/3/2019 12:57:46 AM   
Bagpipe

 

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You are not winning a major victory within the alotted time and/or not breaking the enemies morale. You need to push harder, faster i would imagine?

(in reply to nikolascc)
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RE: Why do I have to replay the same map over and over ... - 11/3/2019 1:22:30 AM   
Rosseau

 

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Still, I don't like it.

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RE: Why do I have to replay the same map over and over ... - 11/3/2019 6:40:54 AM   
nikolascc

 

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I mean okay? My complaint still stands. It's immersion breaking and doesn't make sense at all. And most of the time this happens, I do earn major or even decisive victories. So I don't get it. If its a major and/or decisive victory, don't make me play the map again, set my units all back up, and defeat the enemies tiny corner of deployment for just like 5 minutes of gameplay. Either make the timer longer so I can finish my job, or make the game have better judgment on who wins.

< Message edited by nikolascc -- 11/3/2019 6:48:52 AM >

(in reply to Bagpipe)
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RE: Why do I have to replay the same map over and over ... - 11/4/2019 11:04:43 AM   
wodin


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My issue is when you win the map but chose to defend and suddenly the front line is pulled right back. Makes no sense. I know the enemy needs a starting point so maybe give them a small area to work from but not right back to the start.

It's like listen lads I know we've lost good men in this latest scrap and after three supreme efforts we took the map but we've decided to defend, oh and give the enemy back the hard fought over won ground....why did you say?...erm....poor design feature old chap!



< Message edited by wodin -- 11/4/2019 11:07:40 AM >


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RE: Why do I have to replay the same map over and over ... - 11/4/2019 5:57:46 PM   
nikolascc

 

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It happened AGAIN. I pushed the enemy to the corner of the map and I have them completely surrounded. I get a Decisive victory! Yay! Then it makes me play the map again. So i start the game over, I have to reposition all my units again, then I click Begin. I (obviously) begin to annihilate them because they are surrounded and getting shot at from all angles. All I have to do is take the one victory location they are guarding. But before I do their morale runs out and ends the game only 5 minutes in. I had 25 minutes left to finish the job but the game wouldnt let me. And guess what, I recieve ANOTHER Decisive Victory! Time to play the map AGAIN so i can do it a third time? I just rage quit after that..

(in reply to wodin)
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RE: Why do I have to replay the same map over and over ... - 11/5/2019 9:24:44 AM   
JoonasTo

 

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What does it say on the victory report screen? It will tell you why the battle ended.This is imperative to understanding what is happening and why.

If you take all of the victory locations you push the enemy to the next map.
Another way is to destroy the enemy force completely.
These are the conditions for advancing.

If you simply overrun the enemy and their morale breaks you play the map again. If your victory is overwhelming you gain one extra victory location on the map. If the enemy holds more than one victory point in such a situation you play the map again. So it works as it should.

What doesn’t sound to work is the AI. If they only hold 10% of the map, they should know to retreat to the next one. Now I play almost exclusively multiplayer so I don’t know if the AI is capable of this but if not, a trigger should be added.

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RE: Why do I have to replay the same map over and over ... - 11/5/2019 12:21:16 PM   
wodin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: nikolascc

It happened AGAIN. I pushed the enemy to the corner of the map and I have them completely surrounded. I get a Decisive victory! Yay! Then it makes me play the map again. So i start the game over, I have to reposition all my units again, then I click Begin. I (obviously) begin to annihilate them because they are surrounded and getting shot at from all angles. All I have to do is take the one victory location they are guarding. But before I do their morale runs out and ends the game only 5 minutes in. I had 25 minutes left to finish the job but the game wouldnt let me. And guess what, I recieve ANOTHER Decisive Victory! Time to play the map AGAIN so i can do it a third time? I just rage quit after that..



Seriously just carry on. If you take that last obj then you either counter attack on a suicidal map OR you play that map again but now you are pushed right back to start.

By the way talking about the map after first blood

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RE: Why do I have to replay the same map over and over ... - 11/6/2019 5:06:23 AM   
Simulacra53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JoonasTo

What does it say on the victory report screen? It will tell you why the battle ended.This is imperative to understanding what is happening and why.

If you take all of the victory locations you push the enemy to the next map.
Another way is to destroy the enemy force completely.
These are the conditions for advancing.

If you simply overrun the enemy and their morale breaks you play the map again. If your victory is overwhelming you gain one extra victory location on the map. If the enemy holds more than one victory point in such a situation you play the map again. So it works as it should.

What doesn’t sound to work is the AI. If they only hold 10% of the map, they should know to retreat to the next one. Now I play almost exclusively multiplayer so I don’t know if the AI is capable of this but if not, a trigger should be added.



Good explanation, I guess it is called a game for a good reason.
If you don’t meet the conditions it is a replay.
Drives me crazy especially of combined with a timer,

You attain 90% of goals, with complete victory only one or two turns (minutes of playtime) away, but the games ends - and depending on victory conditions you have to replay the entire map...

I can only gather up the effort 2-3x max depending on scale and if it does not result in success I’ll drop a game.
Not into puzzles...

(in reply to JoonasTo)
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RE: Why do I have to replay the same map over and over ... - 11/6/2019 8:13:57 AM   
Saturnian

 

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You must capture all the victory locations in order to win the battle. If morale breaks you can capture an additional victory location. I don't have much of a problem with that. This is pretty standard Close Combat so I have grown accustomed to it.

Close Combat is all about Victory Locations. The battle (for the map) does not end until all victory locations have been captured(whether it be by battle or the enemy leaving the map). The ENGAGEMENT ends after the timer goes down or morale breaks, but the battle will continue until the victory locations are all captured. So it is truly a race against time to capture the victory locations.

Maybe knowledge of the rules is taken for granted, because I think in terminology of the older games.

old rules:
-An individual battle (like with a 15 minute timer) was technically called an Engagement.
-A meeting engagement happens when both sides enter the map at the same time(most of the map will be gray)
-there are also Axis and Allied defense engagement, and usually a bonus is given so the defenders can 'dig in' with fox holes, because they have time to do so.
-if roads are considered in the map (like with the old strategic maps in previous close combats) then you will enter the map from the respective side of the map. So if there are roads on the map, you'll enter the map from that road (like if you enter via a west road, you will deploy on the west side of the map, along the road).
-If the defeat is not total, the fight will continue so it will be a continuing battle.
-if the battle group leaves the map and the enemy enters the map while no one is there, the enemy takes the map without a fight.

It all made logical sense and TBF carries on that tradition well. But sometimes there just is not enough room on the map and so even if you occupy the map, the attacking enemy can get a freebie and take a strategically significant part of the map when, in reality, you would never let that happen. Maybe the solution to this would be to make the boundaries of the map more contoured, rather than look at it like a strategic grid. You can deploy along the EDGE of the map in a kind of vague/hazy zone, or you can have units enter the map when you want (like bring in anti-tank guns after a given period of time). Also, the developers can manually tweak the deployment zones so certain structures CANNOT be occupied by attacking troops in an attack engagement.



I think TBF has issues with calculating the end descriptions, but in old versions it would be a TOTAL victory if you captured all victory locations. But if the enemy occupies even a single victory location, you must keep fighting for the map. It is just the rules.


But it can be annoying in meeting engagements where you and the enemy deploy in a small area and have to rush outward ASAP. But this has always been this way and I haven't found it to be a problem in this version unless you are pushed back and must counter attack.

I haven't noticed much of a problem with this in TBF, though, because the strategic map is more simple, like with A Bridge Too Far, and is self-guided, rarely giving you strategic choices other than the occasional choice to attack here or there and letting you choose how long to wait before an attack.

My problem was always with the deployment mode, especially in a continuing battle, because how would the enemy not notice you bring a tank into an isolated area of the map? So in my opinion it would make more sense to isolate surrounded units and prevent heavy reinforcements, if any at all, rather than let someone pack in a bunch of tanks without you or the enemy noticing.

But again, this isn't a big deal in this release as the battles are more fast paced (especially outside of Africa) and you don't have to worry about the strategic map that was in old close combats, where maps will have to be fought over again and again, starting at different corners of the maps depending on roads, etcetera.

< Message edited by Saturnian -- 11/6/2019 8:43:21 AM >

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RE: Why do I have to replay the same map over and over ... - 11/6/2019 2:43:26 PM   
SteveMcClaire

 

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You can turn off the morale-based end of battle mechanic in the settings tab before you start a new game. Turn off the 'Low Cohesion' option and the battles won't stop unless one of the other conditions occur (time limit, all victory locations taken, enemy completely destroyed.) If you turn off all the end conditions you can fight until you hunt down the last enemy soldier on the map.



(in reply to Saturnian)
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RE: Why do I have to replay the same map over and over ... - 11/6/2019 4:02:45 PM   
nikolascc

 

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Okay. So really it should turn off the low cohesion after you start a battle that you already played once or twice, and the enemy only has like 1 victory location remaining. Because the game literally doesnt allow me to finish in some cases. Like the thing i explained above. How the enemy was pushed to the corner, they only had 1 victory location remaining, but the game stopped 5 minutes in saying I got a decisive victory. So if i was playing by the gamey standards, I should of just selected all my units and bum rushed them towards the objective to take it. Nah i dont want to play the game like that....

< Message edited by nikolascc -- 11/6/2019 4:03:14 PM >

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RE: Why do I have to replay the same map over and over ... - 11/7/2019 5:09:16 PM   
SteveMcClaire

 

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If you have the 'Low Cohesion' end condition on and you break the enemy morale you will be capture an additional victory location. So in the situation you described you will automatically capture the enemy's last location if their morale breaks and the battle ends.

If you have 'Low Cohesion' end condition off the battle won't end until you DO capture the final victory location (or time runs out, or you wipe out the enemy.)

If you don't like fighting on the same map multiple times, you will see much less of this with the 'Low Cohesion' condition off.

(in reply to nikolascc)
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RE: Why do I have to replay the same map over and over ... - 11/7/2019 5:44:28 PM   
nikolascc

 

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I will give that a shot, thankyou

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