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CMO - Tacview After Action not Supported?

 
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CMO - Tacview After Action not Supported? - 10/29/2019 5:19:20 PM   
JOhnnyr

 

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I thought I read this was the case, does anyone know if it's true, and why?

Although I suppose as long as you can pause CMO while viewing tacview, that would work, but it would be nice to play back what happened during a mission?
Post #: 1
RE: CMO - Tacview After Action not Supported? - 10/29/2019 8:01:17 PM   
Dimitris


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That is correct, only real-time view is supported on initial launch.

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RE: CMO - Tacview After Action not Supported? - 10/30/2019 9:37:22 PM   
ETF


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Any reason for that? Is that a future possible option?

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RE: CMO - Tacview After Action not Supported? - 10/31/2019 12:59:54 AM   
HaughtKarl

 

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Viewing a replay via Tacview would be quite a treat.

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Post #: 4
RE: CMO - Tacview After Action not Supported? - 10/31/2019 11:32:35 PM   
temkc5

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dimitris

That is correct, only real-time view is supported on initial launch.


This took the cherry off but when you have the of the cake why sweat the small stuff



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Post #: 5
RE: CMO - Tacview After Action not Supported? - 11/1/2019 11:01:24 AM   
Sharana


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AAR replay is feature of Professional Edition only for now.

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RE: CMO - Tacview After Action not Supported? - 11/2/2019 1:52:17 PM   
BDukes

 

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So can see everything in real-time tacview (even if sensor don't) and can only use in real-time no AAR. If I understand how this work I am not sure what I would use this for. Anybody?

Regardless I buy. Just don't have to use!

Thank

Bill

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Post #: 7
RE: CMO - Tacview After Action not Supported? - 11/2/2019 7:25:57 PM   
HaughtKarl

 

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Can't Tacview record natively? i.e. Play scenario normally while Tacview is minimized. Once your scenario is complete, just replay it through Tacview.

< Message edited by HaughtKarl -- 11/2/2019 7:38:44 PM >

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Post #: 8
RE: CMO - Tacview After Action not Supported? - 11/3/2019 12:30:06 AM   
Sharana


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HaughtKarl

Can't Tacview record natively? i.e. Play scenario normally while Tacview is minimized. Once your scenario is complete, just replay it through Tacview.

No, it just shows the real time situation from the point of the view of the unit you have selected in CMO. So as far as recording goes you only have whatever your recording software records from the screen.

In other words Tacview is not used as AAR as you can't "export" the events for tacview to replay (that's PE exclusive feature) - the data is just streamed into Tacview's Live view. The addition is eye candy as you can see the battles in 3D also and not only from the CMO's top down 2D view, so you know exactly what's going on (if you care about the details).

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Post #: 9
RE: CMO - Tacview After Action not Supported? - 11/3/2019 3:19:07 AM   
JOhnnyr

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sharana

quote:

ORIGINAL: HaughtKarl

Can't Tacview record natively? i.e. Play scenario normally while Tacview is minimized. Once your scenario is complete, just replay it through Tacview.

No, it just shows the real time situation from the point of the view of the unit you have selected in CMO. So as far as recording goes you only have whatever your recording software records from the screen.

In other words Tacview is not used as AAR as you can't "export" the events for tacview to replay (that's PE exclusive feature) - the data is just streamed into Tacview's Live view. The addition is eye candy as you can see the battles in 3D also and not only from the CMO's top down 2D view, so you know exactly what's going on (if you care about the details).


Seems like a huge missed opportunity, I don't understand why the devs get these things so wrong.

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Post #: 10
RE: CMO - Tacview After Action not Supported? - 11/3/2019 6:50:20 AM   
Dimitris


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JOhnnyr
Seems like a huge missed opportunity, I don't understand why the devs get these things so wrong.


Please read this again: https://kotaku.com/five-things-i-didn-t-get-about-making-video-games-unti-1687510871
And especially #5 for this case.

Also, we opened up a new features poll thread. So if this is really critical for you, you can post there, have it included in the poll, and see if others share your priority.

< Message edited by Dimitris -- 11/3/2019 7:22:06 AM >


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Post #: 11
RE: CMO - Tacview After Action not Supported? - 11/3/2019 1:32:48 PM   
JOhnnyr

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dimitris

quote:

ORIGINAL: JOhnnyr
Seems like a huge missed opportunity, I don't understand why the devs get these things so wrong.


Please read this again: https://kotaku.com/five-things-i-didn-t-get-about-making-video-games-unti-1687510871
And especially #5 for this case.

Also, we opened up a new features poll thread. So if this is really critical for you, you can post there, have it included in the poll, and see if others share your priority.


Thank you for the info, however I feel like the link you provided doesn't really apply...in this case the dev work is done, since this feature is present in PE...so what's the reason for it to be missing in CE? Are the codebases that different?

Thank you for the poll, I'll add it as a suggestion.

< Message edited by JOhnnyr -- 11/3/2019 1:39:09 PM >

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Post #: 12
RE: CMO - Tacview After Action not Supported? - 11/3/2019 1:49:29 PM   
BDukes

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sharana

quote:

ORIGINAL: HaughtKarl

Can't Tacview record natively? i.e. Play scenario normally while Tacview is minimized. Once your scenario is complete, just replay it through Tacview.

No, it just shows the real time situation from the point of the view of the unit you have selected in CMO. So as far as recording goes you only have whatever your recording software records from the screen.

In other words Tacview is not used as AAR as you can't "export" the events for tacview to replay (that's PE exclusive feature) - the data is just streamed into Tacview's Live view. The addition is eye candy as you can see the battles in 3D also and not only from the CMO's top down 2D view, so you know exactly what's going on (if you care about the details).


This is good problem but still don't like you can see enemy too. I care about that detail.

This is not a huge thing for anybody as you can choose not to use.

Thank

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Post #: 13
RE: CMO - Tacview After Action not Supported? - 11/3/2019 1:58:23 PM   
BDukes

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dimitris

quote:

ORIGINAL: JOhnnyr
Seems like a huge missed opportunity, I don't understand why the devs get these things so wrong.


Please read this again: https://kotaku.com/five-things-i-didn-t-get-about-making-video-games-unti-1687510871
And especially #5 for this case.

Also, we opened up a new features poll thread. So if this is really critical for you, you can post there, have it included in the poll, and see if others share your priority.


I read it and it reads like frustrated dev talk that is rooted in a little truth and lots of frustration.

Wanna hear my job complaints? I got some too.

Bill




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Post #: 14
RE: CMO - Tacview After Action not Supported? - 11/3/2019 2:04:21 PM   
JamesHunt

 

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I just want the 3D Real Time Window. Is the Standard Edition (25 Bucks) of TacView enough or do I really need the Advanced Version (60 Bucks)?

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Post #: 15
RE: CMO - Tacview After Action not Supported? - 11/3/2019 2:11:34 PM   
Dimitris


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JOhnnyr
Thank you for the info, however I feel like the link you provided doesn't really apply...in this case the dev work is done, since this feature is present in PE.


Your assumption is wrong.

In Command PE, Tacview can be used either in real-time mode (as with CMO) or in AAR mode. In both cases there is no FOW. Pro users understand and accept this.

Implementing FOW in Tacview, without altering the Tacview exe itself, and doing it in a user-friendly way, is a non-trivial task with significant complications. Before (and if) we undertake it, we need to evaluate if it's worth it. That means a combination of technical feasibility and sufficient customer demand. If either is not present, no go.

So the article I pointed to in fact very much applies: You underestimate how much work goes into what you are asking for.

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Post #: 16
RE: CMO - Tacview After Action not Supported? - 11/3/2019 2:13:09 PM   
JOhnnyr

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dimitris

quote:

ORIGINAL: JOhnnyr
Thank you for the info, however I feel like the link you provided doesn't really apply...in this case the dev work is done, since this feature is present in PE.


Your assumption is wrong.

In Command PE, Tacview can be used either in real-time mode (as with CMO) or in AAR mode. In both cases there is no FOW. Pro users understand and accept this.

Implementing FOW in Tacview, without altering the Tacview exe itself, and doing it in a user-friendly way, is a non-trivial task with significant complications. Before (and if) we undertake it, we need to evaluate if it's worth it. That means a combination of technical feasibility and sufficient customer demand. If either is not present, no go.

So the article I pointed to in fact very much applies: You underestimate how much work goes into what you are asking for.


Sorry, what is FOW?

And we are asking for AAR mode, which as you said, is already implemented, just not in CE?

< Message edited by JOhnnyr -- 11/3/2019 2:14:04 PM >

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Post #: 17
RE: CMO - Tacview After Action not Supported? - 11/3/2019 2:18:48 PM   
Dimitris


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JOhnnyr
Sorry, what is FOW?

And we are asking for AAR mode, which as you said, is already implemented, just not in CE?


OK my bad, I thought this was what you meant since it was what you originally enquired about.

AAR mode is not coming to CMO anytime soon. This is strictly a PE feature. If it is essential to your workflow, please contact us through a business address to discuss about a PE license.

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Post #: 18
RE: CMO - Tacview After Action not Supported? - 11/3/2019 2:21:15 PM   
Dimitris


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JamesHunt

I just want the 3D Real Time Window. Is the Standard Edition (25 Bucks) of TacView enough or do I really need the Advanced Version (60 Bucks)?


You will need the Advanced edition.

Tacview (the free edition) has a 3-week trial period during which you can try the advanced features (incl. real-time mode). So at the end of trial period you can decide if the feature is essential to your gameplay experience or not, and act accordingly.

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RE: CMO - Tacview After Action not Supported? - 11/3/2019 2:22:53 PM   
JOhnnyr

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dimitris

quote:

ORIGINAL: JOhnnyr
Sorry, what is FOW?

And we are asking for AAR mode, which as you said, is already implemented, just not in CE?


OK my bad, I thought this was what you meant since it was what you originally enquired about.

AAR mode is not coming to CMO anytime soon. This is strictly a PE feature. If it is essential to your workflow, please contact us through a business address to discuss about a PE license.


Ah ok, I see. Thank you. The other feature would also be nice, but as you say, would take dev time.

Can you elaborate on how the integration between Tacview and CMO will work? For example, if I click on a unit in CMO, will it be shown in Tacview?

I suppose the "FOW" (I'm still not sure what that means, if you could spell it out for me I would appreciate it) importance would just depend on how easy it is to see opposing units in tacview? If it's really obvious, then it kinda spoils things (for example, if I'm hunting a sub)

Any elaboration you could make would be very much appreciated. Thank you!

I'd also like to point out that we are all here because of the fantastic game you've made (and improved) over the years, so again, thanks for making this amazing thing :)

(in reply to Dimitris)
Post #: 20
RE: CMO - Tacview After Action not Supported? - 11/3/2019 2:46:21 PM   
Sharana


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JOhnnyr
Sorry, what is FOW

Fog of War

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Post #: 21
RE: CMO - Tacview After Action not Supported? - 11/3/2019 4:36:54 PM   
Dimitris


Posts: 11965
Joined: 7/31/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JOhnnyr
Ah ok, I see. Thank you. The other feature would also be nice, but as you say, would take dev time.

Can you elaborate on how the integration between Tacview and CMO will work? For example, if I click on a unit in CMO, will it be shown in Tacview?

I suppose the "FOW" (I'm still not sure what that means, if you could spell it out for me I would appreciate it) importance would just depend on how easy it is to see opposing units in tacview? If it's really obvious, then it kinda spoils things (for example, if I'm hunting a sub)

Any elaboration you could make would be very much appreciated. Thank you!

I'd also like to point out that we are all here because of the fantastic game you've made (and improved) over the years, so again, thanks for making this amazing thing :)



You are welcome, and thank you for the kind words.

We presented the basics of Tacview integration in this article last month: http://www.warfaresims.com/?p=4975

The way the interaction works is that you click on a unit or contact on the top-down map, and the camera centers on this object in Tacview, as in this example: https://steamcdn-a.akamaihd.net/steam/apps/1076160/ss_0093c7653341c089fc6dc7742709e303c103873c.jpg

You can zoom/pan the Tacview camera around the selected object, so you can go from close focus on unit all the way out to seeing the entire theater. The Tacview window is not a "fixed" part of the overall main window but is instead it own separate window. This makes it easy to resize it, move it around the screen to your preference or park it on a second monitor, if you have one.

As Sharana said, FOW refers to Fog Of War; because Tacview was originally developed as an AAR tool, it is designed to show the ground-truth and all objects, instead of a specific side's view. IMO this is the biggest limitation of this implementation so far, and we would very much like to implement more realistic FOW, but as I said before we first need to determine if it's reasonably feasible and if players actually want it (more than other items, that is).

The association between the database and Tacview’s 3D models (which model to display for unit-XYZ?) is handled by two Excel spreadsheets (one for DB3000 and another for CWDB) which list all database entries and the most suitable model for each (because there are not enough models for all platforms in the databases, often generic models or “close enough” substitutes are used instead of precise matches). The 3D models are stored as individual .obj files (Alias-Wavefront format). This is important, because it means that end users can tweak the associations and add their own custom models as desired. Some of our beta testers have come forward with many new models (example: https://twitter.com/warfaresims/status/1184695601935634434) which greatly enhance the visual experience.

_____________________________


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Post #: 22
RE: CMO - Tacview After Action not Supported? - 11/3/2019 5:01:55 PM   
BDukes

 

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I think real integrated 3D would be much betters. This look like when see sorta Mickey Mouses in Las Vegas. They almost look like but they ain't.

Dimitris have you consider hiring a real 3D artist and team at some point. Seems like lots of game have since about 2000.

Bill

(in reply to Dimitris)
Post #: 23
RE: CMO - Tacview After Action not Supported? - 11/3/2019 10:09:08 PM   
JOhnnyr

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dimitris


quote:

ORIGINAL: JOhnnyr
Ah ok, I see. Thank you. The other feature would also be nice, but as you say, would take dev time.

Can you elaborate on how the integration between Tacview and CMO will work? For example, if I click on a unit in CMO, will it be shown in Tacview?

I suppose the "FOW" (I'm still not sure what that means, if you could spell it out for me I would appreciate it) importance would just depend on how easy it is to see opposing units in tacview? If it's really obvious, then it kinda spoils things (for example, if I'm hunting a sub)

Any elaboration you could make would be very much appreciated. Thank you!

I'd also like to point out that we are all here because of the fantastic game you've made (and improved) over the years, so again, thanks for making this amazing thing :)



You are welcome, and thank you for the kind words.

We presented the basics of Tacview integration in this article last month: http://www.warfaresims.com/?p=4975

The way the interaction works is that you click on a unit or contact on the top-down map, and the camera centers on this object in Tacview, as in this example: https://steamcdn-a.akamaihd.net/steam/apps/1076160/ss_0093c7653341c089fc6dc7742709e303c103873c.jpg

You can zoom/pan the Tacview camera around the selected object, so you can go from close focus on unit all the way out to seeing the entire theater. The Tacview window is not a "fixed" part of the overall main window but is instead it own separate window. This makes it easy to resize it, move it around the screen to your preference or park it on a second monitor, if you have one.

As Sharana said, FOW refers to Fog Of War; because Tacview was originally developed as an AAR tool, it is designed to show the ground-truth and all objects, instead of a specific side's view. IMO this is the biggest limitation of this implementation so far, and we would very much like to implement more realistic FOW, but as I said before we first need to determine if it's reasonably feasible and if players actually want it (more than other items, that is).

The association between the database and Tacview’s 3D models (which model to display for unit-XYZ?) is handled by two Excel spreadsheets (one for DB3000 and another for CWDB) which list all database entries and the most suitable model for each (because there are not enough models for all platforms in the databases, often generic models or “close enough” substitutes are used instead of precise matches). The 3D models are stored as individual .obj files (Alias-Wavefront format). This is important, because it means that end users can tweak the associations and add their own custom models as desired. Some of our beta testers have come forward with many new models (example: https://twitter.com/warfaresims/status/1184695601935634434) which greatly enhance the visual experience.


Thank you for the info! I had one more question, on regards to subsurface contacts and ownship in tacview, does it accurately represent depth? Or is the model always just below the surface as shown in the video?

Thanks!

(in reply to Dimitris)
Post #: 24
RE: CMO - Tacview After Action not Supported? - 11/3/2019 10:21:55 PM   
RoryAndersonWS


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JOhnnyr


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dimitris


quote:

ORIGINAL: JOhnnyr
Ah ok, I see. Thank you. The other feature would also be nice, but as you say, would take dev time.

Can you elaborate on how the integration between Tacview and CMO will work? For example, if I click on a unit in CMO, will it be shown in Tacview?

I suppose the "FOW" (I'm still not sure what that means, if you could spell it out for me I would appreciate it) importance would just depend on how easy it is to see opposing units in tacview? If it's really obvious, then it kinda spoils things (for example, if I'm hunting a sub)

Any elaboration you could make would be very much appreciated. Thank you!

I'd also like to point out that we are all here because of the fantastic game you've made (and improved) over the years, so again, thanks for making this amazing thing :)



You are welcome, and thank you for the kind words.

We presented the basics of Tacview integration in this article last month: http://www.warfaresims.com/?p=4975

The way the interaction works is that you click on a unit or contact on the top-down map, and the camera centers on this object in Tacview, as in this example: https://steamcdn-a.akamaihd.net/steam/apps/1076160/ss_0093c7653341c089fc6dc7742709e303c103873c.jpg

You can zoom/pan the Tacview camera around the selected object, so you can go from close focus on unit all the way out to seeing the entire theater. The Tacview window is not a "fixed" part of the overall main window but is instead it own separate window. This makes it easy to resize it, move it around the screen to your preference or park it on a second monitor, if you have one.

As Sharana said, FOW refers to Fog Of War; because Tacview was originally developed as an AAR tool, it is designed to show the ground-truth and all objects, instead of a specific side's view. IMO this is the biggest limitation of this implementation so far, and we would very much like to implement more realistic FOW, but as I said before we first need to determine if it's reasonably feasible and if players actually want it (more than other items, that is).

The association between the database and Tacview’s 3D models (which model to display for unit-XYZ?) is handled by two Excel spreadsheets (one for DB3000 and another for CWDB) which list all database entries and the most suitable model for each (because there are not enough models for all platforms in the databases, often generic models or “close enough” substitutes are used instead of precise matches). The 3D models are stored as individual .obj files (Alias-Wavefront format). This is important, because it means that end users can tweak the associations and add their own custom models as desired. Some of our beta testers have come forward with many new models (example: https://twitter.com/warfaresims/status/1184695601935634434) which greatly enhance the visual experience.


Thank you for the info! I had one more question, on regards to subsurface contacts and ownship in tacview, does it accurately represent depth? Or is the model always just below the surface as shown in the video?

Thanks!


Does accurately represent depth.

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http://baloogancampaign.com

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Post #: 25
RE: CMO - Tacview After Action not Supported? - 11/3/2019 11:21:41 PM   
JOhnnyr

 

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That's great news, thank you!

(in reply to RoryAndersonWS)
Post #: 26
RE: CMO - Tacview After Action not Supported? - 11/4/2019 3:30:58 AM   
RoryAndersonWS


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The problem with subs and the perception of depth is that a sub can be, say, 300 ft long and has a max depth of 1000 ft. Still looks like its juuuust under the surface anyhow at max depth.

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Command Videos: http://youtube.com/baloogan
http://baloogancampaign.com

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Post #: 27
RE: CMO - Tacview After Action not Supported? - 11/4/2019 12:41:30 PM   
Uzabit

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dimitris

...

The association between the database and Tacview’s 3D models (which model to display for unit-XYZ?) is handled by two Excel spreadsheets (one for DB3000 and another for CWDB) which list all database entries and the most suitable model for each (because there are not enough models for all platforms in the databases, often generic models or “close enough” substitutes are used instead of precise matches). The 3D models are stored as individual .obj files (Alias-Wavefront format). This is important, because it means that end users can tweak the associations and add their own custom models as desired. Some of our beta testers have come forward with many new models (example: https://twitter.com/warfaresims/status/1184695601935634434) which greatly enhance the visual experience.


Is it allowed for the community to collect 3d-models in .obj format just as with the image and descriptions packs? Or will this likely cause legal issues?

Best,

Jonas

< Message edited by Uzabit -- 11/4/2019 12:43:39 PM >

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Post #: 28
RE: CMO - Tacview After Action not Supported? - 11/4/2019 1:10:04 PM   
Dimitris


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There shouldn't be a problem with 3rd-party models.

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Post #: 29
RE: CMO - Tacview After Action not Supported? - 11/4/2019 5:46:46 PM   
JOhnnyr

 

Posts: 134
Joined: 4/14/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dimitris


quote:

ORIGINAL: JOhnnyr
Ah ok, I see. Thank you. The other feature would also be nice, but as you say, would take dev time.

Can you elaborate on how the integration between Tacview and CMO will work? For example, if I click on a unit in CMO, will it be shown in Tacview?

I suppose the "FOW" (I'm still not sure what that means, if you could spell it out for me I would appreciate it) importance would just depend on how easy it is to see opposing units in tacview? If it's really obvious, then it kinda spoils things (for example, if I'm hunting a sub)

Any elaboration you could make would be very much appreciated. Thank you!

I'd also like to point out that we are all here because of the fantastic game you've made (and improved) over the years, so again, thanks for making this amazing thing :)



You are welcome, and thank you for the kind words.

We presented the basics of Tacview integration in this article last month: http://www.warfaresims.com/?p=4975

The way the interaction works is that you click on a unit or contact on the top-down map, and the camera centers on this object in Tacview, as in this example: https://steamcdn-a.akamaihd.net/steam/apps/1076160/ss_0093c7653341c089fc6dc7742709e303c103873c.jpg

You can zoom/pan the Tacview camera around the selected object, so you can go from close focus on unit all the way out to seeing the entire theater. The Tacview window is not a "fixed" part of the overall main window but is instead it own separate window. This makes it easy to resize it, move it around the screen to your preference or park it on a second monitor, if you have one.

As Sharana said, FOW refers to Fog Of War; because Tacview was originally developed as an AAR tool, it is designed to show the ground-truth and all objects, instead of a specific side's view. IMO this is the biggest limitation of this implementation so far, and we would very much like to implement more realistic FOW, but as I said before we first need to determine if it's reasonably feasible and if players actually want it (more than other items, that is).

The association between the database and Tacview’s 3D models (which model to display for unit-XYZ?) is handled by two Excel spreadsheets (one for DB3000 and another for CWDB) which list all database entries and the most suitable model for each (because there are not enough models for all platforms in the databases, often generic models or “close enough” substitutes are used instead of precise matches). The 3D models are stored as individual .obj files (Alias-Wavefront format). This is important, because it means that end users can tweak the associations and add their own custom models as desired. Some of our beta testers have come forward with many new models (example: https://twitter.com/warfaresims/status/1184695601935634434) which greatly enhance the visual experience.


Rory, (or Dimitris) sorry, one more - how can we avoid "cheating" while using Tacview? I imagine it brings a lot of immersion to the table, but I'm wondering how you use it, and avoid spoiling things?

< Message edited by JOhnnyr -- 11/4/2019 6:07:39 PM >

(in reply to Dimitris)
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