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Underrated German tanks - 10/26/2019 7:30:40 PM   
Kuokkanen

 

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Couple interesting videos about German tanks:
Panzerkampfwagen I is the most underrated panzer
Panzerkampfwagen III compared to T-34

To sum it up: Panzer I faced most often infantry, rarely armor, and in Wehrmacht it had significant support from other combat arms while in Spanish Civil War it hadn't. T-34 owns Panzer III in firepower, but loses in optics, ergonomics, and a number of other things (gear shaft, radios).

[edit]
In war games this should mean buttoned up Panzer III has better chance of spotting enemy than T-34 and can fire more times per turn. Panzer I with radios should be able to direct artillery and air attacks while many French and Soviet tanks without radios (or with worse radios) can't.

< Message edited by Kuokkanen -- 10/26/2019 7:59:55 PM >


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RE: Underrated German tanks - 10/26/2019 8:07:33 PM   
pkpowers

 

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The Hetzer is my favorite

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RE: Underrated German tanks - 10/26/2019 9:58:16 PM   
altipueri

 

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The radio provision in the German armoured divisions was better than those of any other army at the outbreak of the Second World War. This was an enormous advantage in terms of tactical flexibility. Every German tank had a radio and every command tank had a transmitter as well.

I just happen to be reading Guderian's "Achtung-Panzer" :)

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RE: Underrated German tanks - 10/26/2019 11:13:00 PM   
RFalvo69


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For some reason the Jagdpanther is always forgotten among German "big cats". It was quite possibly the best AT platform ever produced during the war - exp. when Germany went on the difensive.

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RE: Underrated German tanks - 10/27/2019 9:50:43 PM   
redcoat


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The Sturmgeschütz - which is more of an underrated German AFV than a tank:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtFwWB8cv1I&t=45s




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< Message edited by redcoat -- 10/27/2019 9:53:29 PM >


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RE: Underrated German tanks - 10/31/2019 12:14:09 AM   
Perturabo


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I think Panzer I was phased out because they realised that a half-track with a squad of panzergrenadier will fulfil the role better. Like the production of Panzer I ends in 1938 and production of half-tracked APCs starts in 1939.

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RE: Underrated German tanks - 10/31/2019 2:05:15 AM   
TheGrayMouser

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

I think Panzer I was phased out because they realised that a half-track with a squad of panzergrenadier will fulfil the role better. Like the production of Panzer I ends in 1938 and production of half-tracked APCs starts in 1939.

I believe it was designed to be training tank, no more no less, that just happened to be pretty good in the early war years. (And was readily available) The reliable chassis was used for many other purposes til the end of the war.

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RE: Underrated German tanks - 10/31/2019 2:07:18 AM   
TheGrayMouser

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: redcoat


The Sturmgeschütz - which is more of an underrated German AFV than a tank:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtFwWB8cv1I&t=45s




StuG Life



I love a good stug, they never perform very well in war games though.

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RE: Underrated German tanks - 10/31/2019 7:19:56 AM   
ncc1701e


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The first time I have seen a Panzer I for real, I was very disappointed. This tank is so small that I was sure I could not get in. I would have really been afraid to get in there to go to battle.

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RE: Underrated German tanks - 10/31/2019 8:48:54 AM   
stuart3

 

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quote:

This tank is so small that I was sure I could not get in. I would have really been afraid to get in there to go to battle.


The average height of a German of that era was slightly, but noticeably, smaller than that of most other Europeans as a result of the malnutrition they had suffered during the blockade of Germany in their formative years. The tanks would have been sized for them.

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RE: Underrated German tanks - 10/31/2019 12:43:14 PM   
wodin


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Where any underrated?

I imagine there was a healthy respect for all German tanks?

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RE: Underrated German tanks - 10/31/2019 4:04:12 PM   
mrensing

 

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I don't think any German panzer was underrated. The I and II worked well for what they were designed for, doubly so since the Germans were constrained by treaties when designing these platforms. They actually performed well above what they were designed for.

Now if you want to talk about underrated, talk about the French tanks. They were, pound-for-pound, superior to their panzer counter-parts. For a whole host of reasons, they were soundly beaten; because of that they have been historically sneered at and looked down upon. I did several papers on the subject, and IMHO, had the French armor been used correctly they would have put a whoopin on the panzer corps.

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RE: Underrated German tanks - 11/2/2019 5:16:50 AM   
Kuokkanen

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheGrayMouser

I believe it was designed to be training tank, no more no less

Video addresses that. Did you watch it?


quote:

ORIGINAL: mrensing

Now if you want to talk about underrated, talk about the French tanks. They were, pound-for-pound, superior to their panzer counter-parts.

Chieftain has got that covered. He goes inside them with a camera, and you can see results yourself.

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RE: Underrated German tanks - 11/6/2019 2:42:07 AM   
balto

 

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+1 on Hetzer

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RE: Underrated German tanks - 11/7/2019 1:20:18 AM   
mrensing

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheGrayMouser


quote:

ORIGINAL: redcoat


The Sturmgeschütz - which is more of an underrated German AFV than a tank:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtFwWB8cv1I&t=45s




StuG Life



I love a good stug, they never perform very well in war games though.




I would not say that the STuG was in any way underrated. It was also, technically speaking, not a panzer. STuGs were a part of the artillery arm, and very beloved by the infantry they supported.

My experience with STuGs in waragames have been good, at least in early to mid-war. Once they start facing KVs and ISs, not so much of course. In most wargames I've played they have a fair chance against a sherman.

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RE: Underrated German tanks - 11/8/2019 6:58:59 PM   
Hexagon


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For me PzIII is the most underrated when you compared what germans did with it as core tank in panzerdivisions... but is true that Pz-38 in 40-41 was similar to PzIII.

PzI... more than underrated i see it "ignored" because never was designed with a true combat use in mind but even with this was superior to similar "tankettes" designed for real combat use as core armor material.

Well, the PanzerJager and Sturmartillerie never received the love of panzers maybe because they born between war requirements (mobile AT firepower) and a darker mission like is close support for infantry.


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RE: Underrated German tanks - 11/8/2019 11:25:39 PM   
Cataphract88


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The Panzer III was also the chassis used for most of the STuGs that were built, and the STuG is supposed to have destroyed more Allied tanks than any other weapon in WWII.



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