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first impressions - 10/24/2019 6:18:33 PM   
gravyhair

 

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Interface is clean and crisp, map is nice if bland. Counters are very … SPI, for the grognards among us. I'm sure some mods will drastically improve these things. Unit detail is handy and deep. There's a pretty fair amount going on under the hood in combat, movement, supply. Conquered Poland three times and played one turn of the 1944 scenario. AI isn't idiotic on the defense, so far, and seems proactive. Soviets launch a host of poor attacks; whether that's par for the course and/or by design remains to be seen.

Production is fun and involved. Tech is a bit murky, but it's early. Diplomacy is straightforward and this isn't a sandbox - more of a minor deviation game. Can break down INF corps into divisions, but not ARM corps, which is a bummer at 30 miles/hex. Probably helps the AI. More later!

< Message edited by gravyhair -- 10/24/2019 6:19:58 PM >


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RE: first impressions - 10/24/2019 6:28:05 PM   
821Bobo


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You can switch the NATO counters in options, there are 2 sets.

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RE: first impressions - 10/24/2019 6:28:45 PM   
Dr. Foo


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This is the war game I would make if I could make a war game. The designer kept everything that is good and fun about war gaming and scaled back all the tedious micromanagement that bogs down many games and makes them ultimately not fun, for me.

It's fast and fun but has all the depth to make it a complicated game where you need to think about your moves and make strategic decisions.

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RE: first impressions - 10/24/2019 6:34:11 PM   
zakblood


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quote:

ORIGINAL: 821Bobo

You can switch the NATO counters in options, there are 2 sets.


great news thanks for all of us none grogheads who still play the non nato styles / counters





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< Message edited by zakblood -- 10/24/2019 7:59:37 PM >

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RE: first impressions - 10/24/2019 7:15:22 PM   
niki_belucci

 

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Thanks for first impressions. After the review on Wargamer(forum won`t let me post the link) I`m still on the fence whether it is worth getting instead of Strategic Command WWTwo: War in Europe.

Next to strategic AI they are lacking challenges/things like decisions etc. Any thoughts from you guys who already played some hours?

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RE: first impressions - 10/24/2019 7:44:31 PM   
Toby42


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Is this another re-hash of Strategic Command? Is anti sub warfare like playing whack-a-mole?

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RE: first impressions - 10/24/2019 7:54:59 PM   
gwgardner

 

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I playtested and played both SC3 and Warplan. Both great games. And quite different, although on rather similar scales. Anti-sub warfare in Warplan is completely different than in SC3, as is all of the naval aspect of the game.

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RE: first impressions - 10/24/2019 7:59:53 PM   
Toby42


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quote:

ORIGINAL: gwgardner

I playtested and played both SC3 and Warplan. Both great games. And quite different, although on rather similar scales. Anti-sub warfare in Warplan is completely different than in SC3, as is all of the naval aspect of the game.


Better, or just different?

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RE: first impressions - 10/24/2019 8:11:48 PM   
elmo3

 

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More naval impressions please. I really dislike the naval mechanics in the SC games. In SC being able to move in, attack, and then move away without any response/interception is unrealistic IMHO. It sounds from the WarPlan naval dev diary that there is no interception, but you can either attack and move or move and attack, but not move, attack, and move. Is that correct?

< Message edited by elmo3 -- 10/24/2019 8:13:02 PM >


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RE: first impressions - 10/24/2019 8:25:32 PM   
canuckgamer

 

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The review over at Wargamer is lukewarm. The reviewer's biggest concern is that he thinks the German's fuel reserves is too generous and that playing the historical scenario they had more than enough past 1945. I'll wait for additional reviews and feedback. Nice to hear that work on the Pacific front has already started.

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RE: first impressions - 10/24/2019 8:37:55 PM   
Alvaro Sousa


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Wargamer's strategic concerns are a matter of scripting not internal A.I. It takes time to cover all the sneaky things a human can do. I already am modifying the scripts. He also had a bugged version I didn't catch.

It can only improve over time

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RE: first impressions - 10/24/2019 8:54:15 PM   
Dr. Foo


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Is there a way to see the scenario briefing after the game has started? I know I need to keep units in Poland I think 6 units within 10 hexes of Warsaw but I don't remember if that is correct.

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RE: first impressions - 10/24/2019 9:04:05 PM   
gwgardner

 

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The naval game in Warplan is completely different than in SC3. Among the differences:

- ships are in fleets;

- as all fleets/units in Warplan are 'visible,' searches are necessary to actually attack an enemy fleet, so for example I may know that an as yet unidentified German task force has entered the Danish Straits, and I can send out fleets to destroy it, but those fleets still have to successfully recon the task force before actually identi-fying and attacking. This mechanism makes for some fun naval maneuvers.

- fleets can attempt to meet up with oilers to extend their stay at sea

- fleets at sea CAN intercept enemy fleets that end their movement within the intercept range of the fleet.

- fleets can provide beach supply

and so on. As I said above, I love SC3, but I too much prefer Warplan's naval game over SC3s.

To Toby42, I just have too much respect for the SC3 franchise to say Warplan is overall better. They're different, very different, and both VERY enjoyable.

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RE: first impressions - 10/24/2019 10:08:31 PM   
Ingtar

 

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I will have to form my first impressions tonight when I get home.

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RE: first impressions - 10/24/2019 10:16:30 PM   
Alvaro Sousa


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dr. Foo

Is there a way to see the scenario briefing after the game has started? I know I need to keep units in Poland I think 6 units within 10 hexes of Warsaw but I don't remember if that is correct.


The Scenario Notes.pdf in the WarPlan\Manuals folder has all that information.

It will also popup a message if you are short.

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RE: first impressions - 10/25/2019 4:30:16 AM   
canuckgamer

 

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One of the biggest advantages of a computer wargame is fog of war. From what I'm reading you see all units but may not know what they are or their strengths. I think there should be a FOW level where you don't know there is a unit there. However it shouldn't be like what happens in SCWIE when you bump in to a hidden unit and take a significant hit.
If you look at the battles in the Pacific such as Midway, the Japanese were not aware that there were American carriers waiting for them because they had broken the Japanese communications code. In the Coral Sea neither side knew where the other side's carriers were and throughout the Pacific naval battles it was all about locating the enemy fleets/carriers.
When it comes to significant land battles in the European front, I can mention three. Stalingrad where the Germans were not aware that the Russians had massed large forces on either side of Stalingrad. The Battle of the Bulge where the Americans were caught by surprise. France 1940 where German forces advancing through the Ardennes out flanked the Allied forces expecting an advance similar to what the Germans did in WWI.
If you can see all enemy units even though you don't know the details of the units you can't re-create the above historical events. I hope an additional FOW level is added before the Pacific front is released.

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RE: first impressions - 10/25/2019 5:19:34 AM   
jjdenver

 

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Seems very promising but this review points out some things that really need improving before I can purchase it. :(

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RE: first impressions - 10/25/2019 8:36:56 AM   
ZardozCologne

 

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The remarks concerning Stalingrad, Ardennes 1940 and Ardennes 1944 are not totally correct.

Ther German recon had noticed the build up at the flanks of the 6th army but could not do much. There were no reserves and a lack of gasoline to move. Furthermore, Hitler forbide any retreat before at after the Russian attack which was the only solution to avoid encirclement.

The French and British had seen the German concentration via air recon at least on May 9th bud did not believe in an assault at this place.

The Americans had infos about German troop concentration in the Eifel but simply thought that they were resting there.

So, this limited fog of war on land is from my view fine.

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RE: first impressions - 10/25/2019 9:29:56 AM   
Meteor2


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I just have begun playing, so These are really first impressions.

- Seems to be a very good design. I am enjoying it.
- I would prefer an extended FoW, where units in the far Hinterland of enemy territory can not be seen in very case.
- a weather forcast for the next turn would be fine.
- In "Reports and Stats" all information about enemies should be estimates, not real.
- In the "Turn report", maybe headlines would be fine (Naval / Army / Air / Events / etc.) for a better visibility.
- Maybe graphs about the development in different areas (I found them a good supplement to statistics in SC3).

Only remarks! I think, it is a good release. Becoming even better, when I understand everything.


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RE: first impressions - 10/25/2019 10:20:59 AM   
OxfordGuy3


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Meteor2

I just have begun playing, so These are really first impressions.

- Seems to be a very good design. I am enjoying it.
- I would prefer an extended FoW, where units in the far Hinterland of enemy territory can not be seen in very case.


Agreed!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Meteor2
- a weather forcast for the next turn would be fine.


Yes, though I don't think it should be 100% accurate, instead should perhaps just displayed the percentage likelihood of different weather conditions in the different regions

quote:

ORIGINAL: Meteor2
- In "Reports and Stats" all information about enemies should be estimates, not real.


I guess ideally the accuracy of these should depend on an "Intelligence" investment



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RE: first impressions - 10/25/2019 1:01:39 PM   
beldurax


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I will hold off purchasing until I see some key items/exploits fixed. It is very encouraging to see Alvaro so active in terms of fixing issues right away, even addressing the concerns of the Wargamer review. Very encouraging.

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RE: first impressions - 10/25/2019 2:57:47 PM   
Alvaro Sousa


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Toby42

Is this another re-hash of Strategic Command? Is anti sub warfare like playing whack-a-mole?


No whack-o-mole. There are convoy routes and you buy escorts for those routes and simply place them in the routes and leave it be. At the start of 1939 the Allies don't have enough but the Axis don't know where they are concentrated so it becomes a game of cat and mouse with 2 strategies developing. Do the Axis concentrate subs or do they split them up?

Air units still can strike at subs as do carriers. And any sub next to a non-ocean tile can be attacked by surface. But that's how it works. By 1942 if the Allies did it right the Battle of the Atlantic should be favoring the Allies as it was historically. Black May - Micheal Gannon.

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RE: first impressions - 10/25/2019 3:00:49 PM   
Alvaro Sousa


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Meteor2

I just have begun playing, so These are really first impressions.

- Seems to be a very good design. I am enjoying it.
- I would prefer an extended FoW, where units in the far Hinterland of enemy territory can not be seen in very case.
- a weather forcast for the next turn would be fine.
- In "Reports and Stats" all information about enemies should be estimates, not real.
- In the "Turn report", maybe headlines would be fine (Naval / Army / Air / Events / etc.) for a better visibility.
- Maybe graphs about the development in different areas (I found them a good supplement to statistics in SC3).

Only remarks! I think, it is a good release. Becoming even better, when I understand everything.




Noted and I put these idea on the list... The forces page are estimates BTW from what you think is on the map.

FoW you can't see rear units only that they are land or air. You don't know the type. This was modified late in Beta from a more visible system. Units need to be in high recon to have an idea of what they are. Next to a unit for the combat value to appear.


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RE: first impressions - 10/25/2019 3:02:02 PM   
Alvaro Sousa


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quote:

ORIGINAL: beldurax

I will hold off purchasing until I see some key items/exploits fixed. It is very encouraging to see Alvaro so active in terms of fixing issues right away, even addressing the concerns of the Wargamer review. Very encouraging.


I would do the same. In the mornings I respond to posts. In the afternoon and night I do the bug and scenario fixes. I really enjoy working on this so to me it is not work.

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RE: first impressions - 10/26/2019 12:51:07 AM   
jjdenver

 

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Above I tried to link a review that points out some things that really should be improved to make the game worthy of a purchase. But I forgot to link the review. Reviewer seems to make some good points. Having said that this game is really promising and I'm excited to see it released - can't wait to see some of these problems addresses so I can spend the time to buy and play it! :)

Here is link:

https://www.wargamer.com/reviews/warplan/




< Message edited by jjdenver -- 10/26/2019 12:52:12 AM >


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RE: first impressions - 10/26/2019 3:46:43 AM   
Worg64

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: canuckgamer

The review over at Wargamer is lukewarm. The reviewer's biggest concern is that he thinks the German's fuel reserves is too generous and that playing the historical scenario they had more than enough past 1945. I'll wait for additional reviews and feedback. Nice to hear that work on the Pacific front has already started.


I have just passed the year 1941 and even if I tried to be carefull with the oil I run out of Oil as Germany.
I had to stop and stand still more or less for a couple of turns in late august to september.

If anything I think the oil handling can actually be to hard!

I saw a suggestion that units that was less strength would use less oil that can sort that problem out and maybe get the oil balance better.

< Message edited by Worg64 -- 10/26/2019 3:47:56 AM >

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RE: first impressions - 10/26/2019 11:52:48 AM   
ShawnP

 

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After watching some YT videos and reading posts here in the forum, I am very intrigued by this game. And, Alvaro's presence and responsiveness is a big plus.

One thing I have not seen much mention of is what I would call strategic bombing - maybe folks just aren't that far into the game yet. Is that possible?


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RE: first impressions - 10/26/2019 12:09:37 PM   
Zovs


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Yes you can strategically bomb industry with bombers.

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RE: first impressions - 10/26/2019 12:25:29 PM   
sillyflower


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Looking forward to getting it early next year after I get a new computer and when many of the teething troubles are resolved.

Release of a complex design, especially from a small outfit, is always going to be a bit like a public beta. I played WiTE from day 1 and it was still being updated when I stopped playing it 5 or more years later.

I always have huge respect for designers who provide great customer support, and have learned not to buy from the other sort.

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RE: first impressions - 10/26/2019 1:53:43 PM   
Redmarkus5


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Toby42


quote:

ORIGINAL: gwgardner

I playtested and played both SC3 and Warplan. Both great games. And quite different, although on rather similar scales. Anti-sub warfare in Warplan is completely different than in SC3, as is all of the naval aspect of the game.


Better, or just different?


I own all the SC titles and have been playing WarPlan since yesterday. So far I see WarPlan as an improved version of SC. You'll recognise most of the features but the WarPlan developer has kept the best and added many good features from other games.

WarPlan actually has stacking! A standard large Corps is made up of three divisions and can be broken down or rebuilt as a 2-div or 3-div Corps. This adds a great deal to the game, although I would still like to be able to combine 2 Corps for true concentration of force. I'd also like to be able to build combined Air groups.

Nevertheless, I'd say buy it.

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