DDR SAM Project

[vettim89]

Following the thread regarding integration of tactical level SAM into the IAD in East Germany at the end of the Cold War, I have developed this template using some good sources I have. Copy attached

All units that are mobile are marked as "tactical" either as DDR or Soviet. The tactical units are 90% using their barracks locations. It is safe to assume these units would be moved closer to the border in a war or near war scenario.

There are two issues that have come up. I saw a comment suggesting that a S-300 facility existed near Madeburg. Does anyone have a reference for this. The second issue is that there is no mention of the SA-11/BUK system at all. References suggest the system was accepted for service in 1983. None of my references indicate there were any of this system in East Germany. That seems odd to me. It was supposed to replace the SA-8 and SA-6 systems but multiple references show the GSFG equipped with the older systems. Anybody have an explanation for this?

Lastly the permanent Soviet systems in the DDR obviously belonged to specific units. I have failed in my attempt to identify which units so it is a bit sloppy. The DDR units are all grouped by RGT

[Dimitris]

ORIGINAL: vettim89
There are two issues that have come up. I saw a comment suggesting that a S-300 facility existed near Madeburg. Does anyone have a reference for this.

Yes, a single S-300PM battery was installed in Retzow in 1988. There's a few references to NVA vet sites around the web, plus at least one book dedicated to this: https://www.amazon.de/Fla-Raketenkomple ... 394247722X

In addition, a SA-4 battery near Magdeburg migrated to SA-12 during 1987/88 (the battery received only SA-12A/9M83 Gladiator TELs and missiles, as the SA-12B/9M82 Giant missile was still having teething issues).

The second issue is that there is no mention of the SA-11/BUK system at all. References suggest the system was accepted for service in 1983. None of my references indicate there were any of this system in East Germany. That seems odd to me. It was supposed to replace the SA-8 and SA-6 systems but multiple references show the GSFG equipped with the older systems. Anybody have an explanation for this?

IIRC the SA-11s (and many of the first batches of SA-12s) were given to units in the Ukraine & Belorussian MDs that would rapidly transfer westward in a crisis or conflict in order to augment the GSFG. So while they were not there in peacetime, you would almost certainly see quite a few of them in any serious situation.

This might help if you haven't seen it already: http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/g ... 541351.pdf

[vettim89]

ORIGINAL: Dimitris

ORIGINAL: vettim89
There are two issues that have come up. I saw a comment suggesting that a S-300 facility existed near Madeburg. Does anyone have a reference for this.

Yes, a single S-300PM battery was installed in Retzow in 1988. There's a few references to NVA vet sites around the web, plus at least one book dedicated to this: https://www.amazon.de/Fla-Raketenkomple ... 394247722X

In addition, a SA-4 battery near Magdeburg migrated to SA-12 during 1987/88 (the battery received only SA-12A/9M83 Gladiator TELs and missiles, as the SA-12B/9M82 Giant missile was still having teething issues).

The second issue is that there is no mention of the SA-11/BUK system at all. References suggest the system was accepted for service in 1983. None of my references indicate there were any of this system in East Germany. That seems odd to me. It was supposed to replace the SA-8 and SA-6 systems but multiple references show the GSFG equipped with the older systems. Anybody have an explanation for this?

IIRC the SA-11s (and many of the first batches of SA-12s) were given to units in the Ukraine & Belorussian MDs that would rapidly transfer westward in a crisis or conflict in order to augment the GSFG. So while they were not there in peacetime, you would almost certainly see quite a few of them in any serious situation.

This might help if you haven't seen it already: http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/g ... 541351.pdf

Thanks Dimitris. The reference you linked is the primary one I used for the positioning of the tactical SAMS.

One note: I did not include regimental level short ranged SAM (SA-9,SA-13, MANPADS). That would have been a nightmare and made the map ridiculously cluttered.

[Blast33]

A came upon a map which can be useful in this subject and think it is not posted already in this forum.

It can be found on:
https://wnrbh2pllcmt2ubuih62emasyq--rtv ... 5-1989.jpg
The file is too large to attach (9.76 Mb) but a reduced one is attached so you can see what it is.
Maybe this can help?

[Gunner98]

You may also want to try this resource: http://www.ww2.dk/new/newindex.htm

It is a bit awkward but has some great data. The SA-11 was(is?) an army AD system so much harder to track than the PVO AD Bdes and Regts

[Gunner98]

Fantastic map, you wouldn't know where I could find one for the Far East would you?

[Rob322]

ORIGINAL: Gunner98

You may also want to try this resource: http://www.ww2.dk/new/newindex.htm

It is a bit awkward but has some great data. The SA-11 was(is?) an army AD system so much harder to track than the PVO AD Bdes and Regts

Damn! I've been looking at that old Soviet OOB site for like 4 hours now! Time to peal myself out of my chair and eat something! Thanks for the share!

[Blast33]

ORIGINAL: Gunner98

Fantastic map, you wouldn't know where I could find one for the Far East would you?

book.com/northernfury/

I thought about your question about the orbat in the East, but I think the invasion of Vladivostok was less imminent for internet?

Weird idea, but maybe some Japanese sources with Google translate?
Wish you luck!