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Version IV harder? - 10/16/2019 11:06:46 AM   
edward77

 

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I have an interesting question regarding the differences between versions III and IV. I used to be an ardent player of TOAW since its inception. I recently bought IV, coverted some of my scenarios and tried them out. In version III the Battle of Kharkov 1942 Ver 1.0 by Iñaki Harrizabalagatar is a tough one for the player to crack but with the right strategy it is surmountable. Imagine my surprise when playing with version IV that the scenario is now extremely difficult even when playing with Human +2. Of course it may be due to my playing skill having deteriorated but not surely to make that much of a difference. The scenario is a very simple one with only 21 basic triggers. Can anyone suggest what factors may cause this difference?


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RE: Version IV harder? - 10/16/2019 11:42:51 AM   
Hellen_slith


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I seem to recall some talk about Elmer being a bit "smarter" in IV, not sure. I'll try to find it.

Edit: I think I might have been mis-remembering this quote about TOAW III from a wargamer.com review ...

" ... it seemed to me that the Programmed Opponent is a little smarter or a bit more aggressive, even though I can't quantify the difference."

I am playing the PO in Bob Cross's CnFA on +2 for the computer ... the last time I did that was with ACOW about 15 years ago. But, I think that the PO is still lacking in subtlety. I just don't think it can handle the complexity of larger scenes. Smaller scenes, it might work fine and be extremely challenging, but in the larger scenes it is fairly easy to beat even giving it +2, once you obtain the initiative.

Perhaps the difference (if any) stems from the new optional rules like the disengagement / supply / turn calculations that might have some effect? Anyway, not sure about why it might seem "smarter" .... for me, in the CfNA scene, I get the sense that it is using its air assets a bit more smartly. It has managed to keep AS around 9:5 so far.

Your mileage may vary.

< Message edited by Hellen_slith -- 10/16/2019 12:07:01 PM >

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RE: Version IV harder? - 10/17/2019 5:11:00 PM   
larryfulkerson


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It's my understanding that Ralph has put a lot of time into making Elmer more "human" and less like a robot. It's a much better AI under the hood now. I've been testing a lot of the different versions and I've noticed an uptick in the performance of the PO. You seem to have noticed for yourself. It's not perfect but it's better than it was. It will still do the occassional "stupid thing" but it doesn't pee pee dance nearly as much. Elmer still does well at defending as well. I like it a lot but not as much as a PBEM game of course.






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< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 10/17/2019 5:13:07 PM >


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RE: Version IV harder? - 10/17/2019 6:51:27 PM   
edward77

 

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Thanks Hellen and Larry for your comments. Moving on I have a large naval Ver III scenario "Conquest of Japan" I have saved it into Ver IV but it has the wrong .eqp file. I assume that means that none of the naval units are using the new rules. How do I correct this? I am not sure whether the .eqp file is standard or unique to each scenario. Do I simply get the new eqp file, from a vanilla scenario, change the scenario name, then put it into my scenario folder, which then overrides the old .eqp file? Please advise.

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RE: Version IV harder? - 10/17/2019 7:23:37 PM   
larryfulkerson


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quote:

ORIGINAL: edward77

Thanks Hellen and Larry for your comments. Moving on I have a large naval Ver III scenario "Conquest of Japan" I have saved it into Ver IV but it has the wrong .eqp file. I assume that means that none of the naval units are using the new rules. How do I correct this? I am not sure whether the .eqp file is standard or unique to each scenario. Do I simply get the new eqp file, from a vanilla scenario, change the scenario name, then put it into my scenario folder, which then overrides the old .eqp file? Please advise.
The answer depends on whether or not the scenario already has a custom EQP file for it. If it does just open the scenario in the editor, ignoring any error messages about the wrong eqp file, and just save it, with maybe a different name and the act of writing the file will associate the new EQP file with it.

If there is no original EQP file, ( nor a NQP file ), then saving it in the editor will associate it with the default eqp and nqp files. You may need to make your own copy of the default files and edit them to get the performance you seek.





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< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 10/17/2019 7:25:55 PM >


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Bumper sticker on the door leading to an underground Titan missle silo near Minot, ND:
"A nuclear detonation anywhere in the world in 30 minutes or the next one is free."

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RE: Version IV harder? - 10/18/2019 10:08:02 AM   
edward77

 

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Thanks Larry for the solution. Changing the scenario name does the trick. Not too sure what you mean by "You may need to make your own copy of the default files and edit them to get the performance you seek". Certainly the scenario will need some editing as at the moment eg the Japanese Coastal guns are now too powerfull, wiping out my invasion force.

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RE: Version IV harder? - 10/18/2019 11:16:17 AM   
Zovs


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You could use the new database:

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4431184

There is some good stuff in there to help with and mod with.

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RE: Version IV harder? - 10/18/2019 11:39:07 AM   
larryfulkerson


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zovs
You could use the new database:

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4431184

There is some good stuff in there to help with and mod with.


quote:

ORIGINAL: edward77
Thanks Larry for the solution. Changing the scenario name does the trick. Not too sure what you mean by "You may need to make your own copy of the default files and edit them to get the performance you seek". Certainly the scenario will need some editing as at the moment eg the Japanese Coastal guns are now too powerfull, wiping out my invasion force.
What I meant was to create a folder inside the Graphics Override folder that has the same name as your scenario and inside it put your EQP and NQP files ( and any custom PNG's or BMP's ) and edit them to give your scenario the performance you desire for that scenario. As Zovs suggested, I reccommend that you use the new TOAW v.5.2 database file for your EQP file because it's got so many new equipment types available. Just remember to change the name of the eqp file to match your scenario name. To associate the new eqp file to your scenario just open the scenario in the editor, ignoring any wrong eqp file error messages, and save the scenario.

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Bumper sticker on the door leading to an underground Titan missle silo near Minot, ND:
"A nuclear detonation anywhere in the world in 30 minutes or the next one is free."

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RE: Version IV harder? - 10/20/2019 3:47:09 AM   
r6kunz


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In reply to Ed's original question:
I do not have a definitive answer to your very good question. However, I have noted that several scenarios I designed in TOAWIII and then transposed to TOAWIV (namely Korea 2013) and tested PO vs PO in III and IV yielded wildly different results.
This mode of testing was somewhat hindered by the fact a scenario designed or modified in IV was not compatible with III.

Perhaps opening a III scenario, savings as an IV then playing (Hot Seat or PO v Po or you vs PO) would be a valid test, Let us know what you find...

< Message edited by r6kunz -- 10/20/2019 3:48:44 AM >


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