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Can anyone suggest a modern operational wargame?

 
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Can anyone suggest a modern operational wargame? - 10/12/2019 11:24:56 AM   
larrybush


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Computer game of course.

I have Flashpoint and Command Modern Navy but Flashpoint is 1980ish and Command is real time. I'm looking for a modern wargame that might be now till the near future. Maybe on battalion or brigade level. Important part is combining good air operations - naval operations and land operations. Turn based. Remember Gulf Strike.

I own some GMT games called the Next War series, just looking for a computer equivalent. Don't find anything but this community generally knows every game that's out there!
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RE: Can anyone suggest a modern operational wargame? - 10/12/2019 11:58:07 AM   
wodin


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TOAW. That certainly covers what you're after.

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RE: Can anyone suggest a modern operational wargame? - 10/12/2019 12:14:07 PM   
larrybush


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I own it, in fact I owned every version that ever came out. Unfortunately it does not do a very good job of modern combined arms. It's sweet spot is definitely WWII and maybe early cold war.

However, thank you for the reply, I know your really good with knowing what's available.

I don't find anything myself either. Watching Armored Brigade to see if it gets a modern add-on. Hypothetical cold war gone hot in the 80's, 90's I already have covered.

Command modern Naval & Air is real fun to play hard to master but it really won't cover a multi-month ground campaign.


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RE: Can anyone suggest a modern operational wargame? - 10/12/2019 12:29:01 PM   
wodin


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Larry Command 2 maybe fit the bill, with its improved ground combat?

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RE: Can anyone suggest a modern operational wargame? - 10/12/2019 12:58:08 PM   
larrybush


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Yes, I'm watching it to see details of the way ground units are handled.
It truly is the only thing out there that has the detail I like (or I should say I'm looking for).
I just have serious doubts that a real time game can do a months long campaign. But it is a very good game (simulation really).

I remember having a lot of fun with the Gulf Strike/Aegean Strike games. I like non-historical future "what if" style games. Mind you Gulf Strike was not the best designed game ever but it covered the period and the weapons systems and modern feel reasonably well.

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RE: Can anyone suggest a modern operational wargame? - 10/12/2019 2:25:04 PM   
Crossroads


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TOAW IV would be my recommendation as well, especially if focus on land battles is what you are looking for.

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RE: Can anyone suggest a modern operational wargame? - 10/12/2019 3:54:07 PM   
larrybush


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Hello Crossroads, thanks for replying...

When I first bought TAOW IV I planned a 700 x 700 map of the mid-east to build a modern scenario. Found that I could not do it in 2.5 k per hex but 5 would work. I wanted to encompass Turkey (to the Bospherus straits), Syria, Israel, part of Egypt, Gulf of Aden, Yemen and of course all of the Persian Gulf. This will work at 5 km per hex.

I made a test game with a smaller map (of course). The ground game is reasonably ok. But modern naval & submarine operations just are non-existent. Airborne early warning, Aegis systems, land attack cruise missiles, just to name a few are not simulated.
Then to move on to modern air operations, again no AEW, no suppression of enemy air defenses SEAD, just 3 boxes to put air units into which for just don't do justice to the complexities of combat in the modern era.

After I went though this exercise in making a test bed to see what could work and what would not, I decided that modern combined Air/Navy/Land cannot be sufficiently simulated in the TAOW engine. Works great for WWII though.

Then I messed around with Command Modern Navy/Air and it certainly has the detail but lacks the ability to deploy and make ground units fight battles in any scenario that would take weeks or months to complete. It was designed for real time simulations of various scenarios that cover no more than a few days or so. It does this real well too.

So I came here to ask if anyone knew of something obscure that I don't know about in the off chance there was something out there. I've had this gaming whim for quite some time, I bought GMT's Next War Taiwan and was looking for a computer equivalent of this and other potential hotspots throughout the world (The Gulf being the most interesting).

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RE: Can anyone suggest a modern operational wargame? - 10/12/2019 5:13:48 PM   
Kuokkanen

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

Larry Command 2

I made Google image search and results don't look like a game.

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RE: Can anyone suggest a modern operational wargame? - 10/12/2019 8:10:45 PM   
ncc1701e


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I agree. TOAW is heavily WW2 oriented.

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RE: Can anyone suggest a modern operational wargame? - 10/13/2019 9:01:04 AM   
Red2112


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kuokkanen

quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

Larry Command 2

I made Google image search and results don't look like a game.


I think Wodin meant... "Larry" (op),check CMANO 2 I fell for it too hahaha!

Not a easy task, as modern warfare can be quite leathel. Your spotted/tracked, your dead! Map size is also a issue as modern weapons have longer ranges, thus a bigger map (scale) is needed in most cases.

A example is Combat Mission Black Sea or Shock Force, both would benefit from bigger maps, but the game does not allow it. I still think both games are great.

Besides the upcoming CMNO 2, we are left with just a few. I also enjoy Next War, Gulf Strike, South China Sea and the Assault Series (GDWS), and the Fleet Series (VG), but for PC we are in need of some modern warfare on hexes!

John Tiller has some Modern Campaigns titles, but personally I don´t like the AI to much, there great for H2H though.

Then there´s some RTS type games like Wargame Red Dragon, or Call To Arms. Supreme Ruler Ultimate is another to consider.

Aside from CMANO and Flashpoint, Armoured Brigade and Combat Mission (BS and SF) are about the only ones left for modern warfare as of now.

Red

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< Message edited by Red2112 -- 10/13/2019 9:34:57 PM >


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RE: Can anyone suggest a modern operational wargame? - 10/13/2019 11:06:50 AM   
Trugrit


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Wargamer covers this very well.

Make sure you check for reviews on their site.

Best Modern:
https://www.wargamer.com/articles/modern-war-ww3-cold-war-games/
Some of these are WEGO which I think you are interested in.

Best Naval:
https://www.wargamer.com/articles/naval-war-games-subsim/

Best to Come:
https://www.wargamer.com/articles/war-games-for-pc-2019/


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RE: Can anyone suggest a modern operational wargame? - 10/13/2019 12:28:32 PM   
larrybush


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Thanks good post, I was just vaguely aware of Theater Commander - need to take a closer look. Also it mentioned the Shrapnel entry which I was looking at yesterday, quite favorably too.

I will in all probability upgrade my CMANO when the new one comes out, mostly to keep my game relevant and supported, since it is pretty much the best modern simulation out there.

Boy, I really wanted TAOW IV to work! Has all the tools/editors, but it would take a complete game code re-write to add all the crazy cutting edge modern stuff in todays world.

I do have high hopes for Armored Brigade at some point breaking into modern era databases and such. Maybe even a player mod like Chechnya.

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RE: Can anyone suggest a modern operational wargame? - 10/13/2019 3:53:47 PM   
Crossroads


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quote:

ORIGINAL: larrybush

Hello Crossroads, thanks for replying...

When I first bought TAOW IV I planned a 700 x 700 map of the mid-east to build a modern scenario. Found that I could not do it in 2.5 k per hex but 5 would work. I wanted to encompass Turkey (to the Bospherus straits), Syria, Israel, part of Egypt, Gulf of Aden, Yemen and of course all of the Persian Gulf. This will work at 5 km per hex.

I made a test game with a smaller map (of course). The ground game is reasonably ok. But modern naval & submarine operations just are non-existent. Airborne early warning, Aegis systems, land attack cruise missiles, just to name a few are not simulated.
Then to move on to modern air operations, again no AEW, no suppression of enemy air defenses SEAD, just 3 boxes to put air units into which for just don't do justice to the complexities of combat in the modern era.

After I went though this exercise in making a test bed to see what could work and what would not, I decided that modern combined Air/Navy/Land cannot be sufficiently simulated in the TAOW engine. Works great for WWII though.

Then I messed around with Command Modern Navy/Air and it certainly has the detail but lacks the ability to deploy and make ground units fight battles in any scenario that would take weeks or months to complete. It was designed for real time simulations of various scenarios that cover no more than a few days or so. It does this real well too.

So I came here to ask if anyone knew of something obscure that I don't know about in the off chance there was something out there. I've had this gaming whim for quite some time, I bought GMT's Next War Taiwan and was looking for a computer equivalent of this and other potential hotspots throughout the world (The Gulf being the most interesting).


That all makes sense, hence my suggestion for TOAW IV + land battles combo. I have Next War: Poland, it is probably my favourite board game at the moment, really love how they got the scope spot on, together with how it has a tactical and operational mapboard, either or both being part of a scenario. They are a complex system, but still plays out quite fast. Takes a couple of players really dedicated to learning the rules though.

quote:

ORIGINAL: larrybush

Thanks good post, I was just vaguely aware of Theater Commander - need to take a closer look. Also it mentioned the Shrapnel entry which I was looking at yesterday, quite favorably too.

I will in all probability upgrade my CMANO when the new one comes out, mostly to keep my game relevant and supported, since it is pretty much the best modern simulation out there.

Boy, I really wanted TAOW IV to work! Has all the tools/editors, but it would take a complete game code re-write to add all the crazy cutting edge modern stuff in todays world.

I do have high hopes for Armored Brigade at some point breaking into modern era databases and such. Maybe even a player mod like Chechnya.


Re the bolded part: we've taken the WWII era Campaign Series code base and trasformed it to cover the modern battleground, too. Yet, at the moment we've drawn the line at 1985. We'd like to add for instance the Gulf War to it, stretching the timeline to early 1990s. For instance, the Campaign Series: Middle East comes with a "teaching set" of scenarios, with dates and scenarios per 1948, 1958, 1967, 1973, and 1985. It is great fun to see how lethal the modern battle field becomes, even when stopping at 1985.

That said, it would be really cool to try to stretch it all to current date.

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RE: Can anyone suggest a modern operational wargame? - 10/13/2019 4:57:15 PM   
jack54


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Current modern is what I'm looking for too. Something like the Next War series would be awesome.

I've mentioned before that IMHO Command 'Live' is a great Idea.

If Flashpoint Campaigns ever goes truly modern with today's hot-spots let's say 'Flashpoint Live' they could $10 me forever with scenarios and and even more for Campaigns.



< Message edited by jack54 -- 10/13/2019 4:58:36 PM >


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RE: Can anyone suggest a modern operational wargame? - 10/13/2019 5:47:02 PM   
larrybush


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Currently I have Next War: Taiwan set up, I've watched several After Action replays of the Next War: Poland, that looks to be my next purchase (if I decide to get another board wargame). I noticed that Next War: Korea is finally being updated/republished.

Really glad to see some other gamers that have the same whim as I. Does not seem like the niche market we live in has a traditional hex based/ turn based game that covers this topic in the detail previously discussed. Some do come close, I think I own most of them too.


Edit: Crossroads, you have a lot of work you done on your link, pretty cool. Dang, I wish I could program, I'd write my own! Ha!

< Message edited by larrybush -- 10/13/2019 5:49:49 PM >

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RE: Can anyone suggest a modern operational wargame? - 10/13/2019 7:02:09 PM   
Kuokkanen

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Trugrit


Wargamer covers this very well.

Make sure you check for reviews on their site.

Best Modern:
https://www.wargamer.com/articles/modern-war-ww3-cold-war-games/

Syrian Warfare didn't qualify?

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RE: Can anyone suggest a modern operational wargame? - 10/14/2019 5:36:08 PM   
wodin


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There is this

LINK

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RE: Can anyone suggest a modern operational wargame? - 10/14/2019 7:08:38 PM   
larrybush


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Yes, I saw that on Steam, looking into it. I'll see if it scratches that darned itch.

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RE: Can anyone suggest a modern operational wargame? - 10/14/2019 11:25:11 PM   
goodwoodrw


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I bought it doesn't work on win 7. A couple posters on Steam have asked when the game will be playable on Win 7 with no response.

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RE: Can anyone suggest a modern operational wargame? - 10/16/2019 11:47:48 AM   
wodin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: goodwoodrw

I bought it doesn't work on win 7. A couple posters on Steam have asked when the game will be playable on Win 7 with no response.



Tried a compatibility mode? May help.

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