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The Mayor of Hunfeld

 
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The Mayor of Hunfeld - 10/8/2019 4:21:48 PM   
blackcloud6


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Back in 1987-89 I commanded C Company, 1-48 Infantry. My GDP was Hunfeld Germany. I would be attached to 3-8 Cavalry and be organized for combat as Team Cougar with 2 mechanized Infantry Platoon (M2A1 BFV), a tank platoon (M1A1 Abrams), a FIST Section, and Stinger Section and an Engineer Platoon (M113A2).

Now Hunfeld sits down in the Haune River valley north-northeast of Fulda with high ground to the from a few kilometers away and two high speed avenues of approach into Hunfeld which were valleys, the more open one was the one coming out of the Northeast.

My Company Team was sort of the anvil that the rest of the TF 3-8 would then be positioned to hammer the Soviets as they came down the highspeed avenues of approach in the kill zones where air, helicopters, tank, ATGM fire were to blast away at the commies. To our would be a troop of 3-7 Cav, the division cavalry squadron plus obstacles to canalize the Sovs into the kill zones.

But I never liked my position. Hunfeld is on low ground and on the east bank of the Haune river, thus the river was too my back. The town was too big for Company Team to hold, especially just two platoons of BFV mech Infantry which were infantry poor. In fact, the previous GDP when 2d Bde, 3 AD had two meh Inf Battalions and two armored battalions, Hunfeld was held by a whole Bn, 2-48 Infantry. (2-48 Inf went away as a bill payer for the increased companies in the J series TOE battalions.)

If we survived the massed artillery barrage and the Soviets made it through the kill zone, I always believed I would be overwhelmed in the town. But I also felt they would bypass it to the north and I would be cut off struggling to get back over the Haune and into the rough terrain behind Hunfeld. It seemed like the mission was certainly a DIP and hopefully the Soviets would play right and get hammered in the KZs. But then there is those second and third echelon divisions coming...

Yesterday Armored brigade came out with an update to change the spotting ability of enemy defending units when they fire. It was an increase in ability to spot becasue before the update you pretty much had to be on top of them. to spot when they fired. So, to see how the update worked, I used the same time period and setting as I had been playing, in a sort of linked campaign set in 1975, to see what the changes would do. I chose to play out the northern portion of the Hunfeld defense with two M113A1 Mech Infatry Platoons, a M60A1 Tank platoon and a TOW carrier section, plus a Cobra section and air support. It was a hasty defense. Attacking was two T-72 companies and a BMP-1 company with air support. I was the Soviets. Granted it was a hasty defense, but the US forces were overrun with ease.

So today, I set up the same scenario but set it in 1987 with M1A1 instead of M60s. M2A2s instead of M113s. M901s instead of TOW carriers, T-80BVs vice T-72s, BMP-2s vice BMP-1s. Force size the same, hasty defense both sides with air. (A-10s and Su-25s). I figured the longer ranges of the missiles from the BFVs and M901s plus the better sights on the Abrams would make the defense more deadly. It didn't, the US forces were overrun with even less Soviet casualties.

Now, I think on the second play, the computer didn't do a good set up and mass fires into the kill zone and it seemed the Abrams were set up for counterattack, although I don't know their starting positions. They were not engaged until near the end of the scenario when they moved to retake an objective and drove right for a T-80 company that I moved up to protect my flank expecting the attack. The Abrams were destroyed.

Now, what I've learned in playing the Soviets in Armored Brigade is play them like Soviets. Mass their firepower by using echelon line formations and have all the companies move in a way the support each other. It works.

Then I noticed something about that northern approach. Although open, the LOSs are not as good as you think. By moving the Soviets fast through the open ground, they are not long in kill zones. The Hunfeld position is not looking too good like I felt when I was actually there on the ground so many years ago.

I'm going to try this again with me be the US. I'll try hasty defenses and prepared defense and I will also try a full up battalion Task Force defense and see how that will play out.

But just maybe, the Soviets might have had a chance in the late 1980s. The NATO defense might have been a hard crust to crack, but it was a thin one.


< Message edited by blackcloud6 -- 10/8/2019 4:22:43 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: The Mayor of Hunfeld - 10/8/2019 4:23:14 PM   
blackcloud6


Posts: 459
Joined: 8/13/2002
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This thread shows some of the neat things you can do with Armored Brigade.

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Post #: 2
RE: The Mayor of Hunfeld - 10/8/2019 6:54:16 PM   
22sec

 

Posts: 839
Joined: 12/11/2004
From: Jackson, MS
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Absolutely why I fell in love with AB many years ago. When played this way, AB exceeds anything ever written, and the continued improvements only make for even better days to come.

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Post #: 3
RE: The Mayor of Hunfeld - 10/8/2019 8:18:54 PM   
blackcloud6


Posts: 459
Joined: 8/13/2002
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I just played the same 1987 battle on the north side of Hunfeld as the Americans. I fought the commies to a draw and both sides were pretty well spent. I had only three of 10 BFVs last an ITV and a few infantry squads plus my ADA assets. the Russians all but three tanks of out 21 and all but three BMP-2s. Nasty fight.

I'll try this one again but this time allow the US to be Dug-in to see what happens.

(in reply to 22sec)
Post #: 4
RE: The Mayor of Hunfeld - 10/8/2019 8:40:04 PM   
DoubleDeuce


Posts: 1244
Joined: 6/23/2000
From: Crossville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: blackcloud6

Back in 1987-89 I commanded C Company, 1-48 Infantry. My GDP was Hunfeld Germany. I would be attached to 3-8 Cavalry and be organized for combat as Team Cougar with 2 mechanized Infantry Platoon (M2A1 BFV), a tank platoon (M1A1 Abrams), a FIST Section, and Stinger Section and an Engineer Platoon (M113A2).

I was not far behind that position from 83-87 with 2/68 AR, 8th ID (near Schlitz). We had M60A3's and M113's during that time and the same general attachments but we had Vulcans instead of the Stingers (we pretty much got all new equipment last).

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Post #: 5
RE: The Mayor of Hunfeld - 10/8/2019 8:55:05 PM   
blackcloud6


Posts: 459
Joined: 8/13/2002
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DoubleDeuce

I was not far behind that position from 83-87 with 2/68 AR, 8th ID (near Schlitz). We had M60A3's and M113's during that time and the same general attachments but we had Vulcans instead of the Stingers (we pretty much got all new equipment last).



When was that? There must have been a sector change at one time turning that area over to the 3rd AD. I can't remember where the 8th ISD was in the GDP when I was there.

(in reply to DoubleDeuce)
Post #: 6
RE: The Mayor of Hunfeld - 10/8/2019 9:09:52 PM   
DoubleDeuce


Posts: 1244
Joined: 6/23/2000
From: Crossville, TN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: blackcloud6


quote:

ORIGINAL: DoubleDeuce

I was not far behind that position from 83-87 with 2/68 AR, 8th ID (near Schlitz). We had M60A3's and M113's during that time and the same general attachments but we had Vulcans instead of the Stingers (we pretty much got all new equipment last).



When was that? There must have been a sector change at one time turning that area over to the 3rd AD. I can't remember where the 8th ISD was in the GDP when I was there.


1983-87, 2nd Brigade, 8th ID was in the Lauterbach area. I think 3rd ID was North of us but most of the stuff outside the brigade area is kind of foggy after all these years.


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Post #: 7
RE: The Mayor of Hunfeld - 10/9/2019 9:23:55 AM   
demyansk


Posts: 2663
Joined: 2/20/2008
Status: offline
Cool stuff guys

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Post #: 8
RE: The Mayor of Hunfeld - 10/13/2019 2:19:34 PM   
Perturabo


Posts: 2545
Joined: 11/17/2007
Status: offline
Whoa, awesome. Any chances for some AARs/custom scenarios based around the area?

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People shouldn't ask themselves why schools get shoot up.
They should ask themselves why people who finish schools burned out due to mobbing aren't receiving high enough compensations to not seek vengeance.

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Post #: 9
RE: The Mayor of Hunfeld - 10/13/2019 4:11:52 PM   
erichswafford


Posts: 601
Joined: 5/14/2008
Status: offline
Awesome stuff. Popcorn is ready, I want more! An AAR would be incredible (and a scenario file!).

Totally agree that Soviet numbers (and doctrine) would've been tough to handle. Anyone who thought the GSFG were a bunch of peasants who only knew how to do human-wave attacks hasn't read much Glantz. By my reading, the Soviets were very aware of their disadvantages, and they actively planned to minimize their overall effect. Of course, it doesn't hurt when you can expend regiments like rifle rounds. I often wondered if we'd just run out of ammo before they ran out of stuff to throw into the breach.

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Post #: 10
RE: The Mayor of Hunfeld - 10/13/2019 7:23:37 PM   
DoubleDeuce


Posts: 1244
Joined: 6/23/2000
From: Crossville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

Whoa, awesome. Any chances for some AARs/custom scenarios based around the area?


quote:

ORIGINAL: erichswafford

Awesome stuff. Popcorn is ready, I want more! An AAR would be incredible (and a scenario file!).

I'm working up some stuff but it's just in the early stages. Really wish I had a map for this game of the area around Baumholder but I think I can 'fake' it.


_____________________________


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Post #: 11
RE: The Mayor of Hunfeld - 10/16/2019 2:40:38 AM   
blackcloud6


Posts: 459
Joined: 8/13/2002
Status: offline
In the near future I hope to try to fight the Hunfeld GDP with the Task Force in the defense. That will be a large one to be sure.

(in reply to DoubleDeuce)
Post #: 12
RE: The Mayor of Hunfeld - 10/20/2019 3:46:16 PM   
Perturabo


Posts: 2545
Joined: 11/17/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DoubleDeuce

quote:

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

Whoa, awesome. Any chances for some AARs/custom scenarios based around the area?


quote:

ORIGINAL: erichswafford

Awesome stuff. Popcorn is ready, I want more! An AAR would be incredible (and a scenario file!).

I'm working up some stuff but it's just in the early stages. Really wish I had a map for this game of the area around Baumholder but I think I can 'fake' it.

Cool. Any chances for a deployment screenshot from this?
quote:

ORIGINAL: blackcloud6

Yesterday Armored brigade came out with an update to change the spotting ability of enemy defending units when they fire. It was an increase in ability to spot becasue before the update you pretty much had to be on top of them. to spot when they fired. So, to see how the update worked, I used the same time period and setting as I had been playing, in a sort of linked campaign set in 1975, to see what the changes would do. I chose to play out the northern portion of the Hunfeld defense with two M113A1 Mech Infatry Platoons, a M60A1 Tank platoon and a TOW carrier section, plus a Cobra section and air support. It was a hasty defense. Attacking was two T-72 companies and a BMP-1 company with air support. I was the Soviets. Granted it was a hasty defense, but the US forces were overrun with ease.

So today, I set up the same scenario but set it in 1987 with M1A1 instead of M60s. M2A2s instead of M113s. M901s instead of TOW carriers, T-80BVs vice T-72s, BMP-2s vice BMP-1s. Force size the same, hasty defense both sides with air. (A-10s and Su-25s). I figured the longer ranges of the missiles from the BFVs and M901s plus the better sights on the Abrams would make the defense more deadly. It didn't, the US forces were overrun with even less Soviet casualties.


_____________________________

People shouldn't ask themselves why schools get shoot up.
They should ask themselves why people who finish schools burned out due to mobbing aren't receiving high enough compensations to not seek vengeance.

(in reply to DoubleDeuce)
Post #: 13
RE: The Mayor of Hunfeld - 10/20/2019 4:02:39 PM   
nikolas93TS


Posts: 525
Joined: 2/24/2017
Status: offline
Latest spotting changes mostly regard dug-in units, infantry, guns and in general small teams which were usually culprits for "ghosting". Thermal and all weapons spotting increase was in previus patch.

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Post #: 14
RE: The Mayor of Hunfeld - 10/20/2019 8:09:04 PM   
tebeinteresno


Posts: 108
Joined: 7/28/2015
From: Russia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DoubleDeuce
I'm working up some stuff but it's just in the early stages. Really wish I had a map for this game of the area around Baumholder but I think I can 'fake' it.


if you want, you can tell which sector near the Baumholder you are interested in, and I can prepare you files for a map of a small sector somewhere 15x15 km.
The only thing left is to fill it with data from a photo or map, which I will attach to this map.
It may take some time for someone to polish this map, but at least something to begin with.

(in reply to DoubleDeuce)
Post #: 15
RE: The Mayor of Hunfeld - 10/21/2019 4:29:53 AM   
DoubleDeuce


Posts: 1244
Joined: 6/23/2000
From: Crossville, TN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tebeinteresno


quote:

ORIGINAL: DoubleDeuce
I'm working up some stuff but it's just in the early stages. Really wish I had a map for this game of the area around Baumholder but I think I can 'fake' it.


if you want, you can tell which sector near the Baumholder you are interested in, and I can prepare you files for a map of a small sector somewhere 15x15 km.
The only thing left is to fill it with data from a photo or map, which I will attach to this map.
It may take some time for someone to polish this map, but at least something to begin with.

That would be awesome! Let me find the area and post more here.

_____________________________


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Post #: 16
RE: The Mayor of Hunfeld - 10/23/2019 7:41:19 PM   
DoubleDeuce


Posts: 1244
Joined: 6/23/2000
From: Crossville, TN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tebeinteresno


quote:

ORIGINAL: DoubleDeuce
I'm working up some stuff but it's just in the early stages. Really wish I had a map for this game of the area around Baumholder but I think I can 'fake' it.


if you want, you can tell which sector near the Baumholder you are interested in, and I can prepare you files for a map of a small sector somewhere 15x15 km.
The only thing left is to fill it with data from a photo or map, which I will attach to this map.
It may take some time for someone to polish this map, but at least something to begin with.

Baumholder itself is pretty non-descript terrain wise, mostly gunnery and maneuver ranges so nothing there as far as building/urban area (the most important area would be bout 1-2 km northeast of Reichenbach where ASP #4 is located). BUT I grabbed a section of the western 1/2 which includes ASP #4 and other important roads network just to the west that I could make scenarios from especially once the French/Belgium DLC comes out.


Attachment (1)

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Post #: 17
RE: The Mayor of Hunfeld - 10/28/2019 8:47:55 PM   
tebeinteresno


Posts: 108
Joined: 7/28/2015
From: Russia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DoubleDeuce


quote:

ORIGINAL: tebeinteresno


quote:

ORIGINAL: DoubleDeuce
I'm working up some stuff but it's just in the early stages. Really wish I had a map for this game of the area around Baumholder but I think I can 'fake' it.


if you want, you can tell which sector near the Baumholder you are interested in, and I can prepare you files for a map of a small sector somewhere 15x15 km.
The only thing left is to fill it with data from a photo or map, which I will attach to this map.
It may take some time for someone to polish this map, but at least something to begin with.

Baumholder itself is pretty non-descript terrain wise, mostly gunnery and maneuver ranges so nothing there as far as building/urban area (the most important area would be bout 1-2 km northeast of Reichenbach where ASP #4 is located). BUT I grabbed a section of the western 1/2 which includes ASP #4 and other important roads network just to the west that I could make scenarios from especially once the French/Belgium DLC comes out.



https://yadi.sk/d/iPYZ6GCzpcZw4w
here you can download the map.

I prepared the map files to fill with data.
For references, I imported forests and rivers (I made them as a streams, in the editor you can change them)
To install the map:
- unzip the file
- move folder to data/map folder

To start the map editor:
- go to the data/scenarios folder
- open file development.cfg
- replace 0 with 1 in both lines (or from 1 to 0 if you need to return to normal mode)

in the map editor you can use the "T" key to convert the current map to a sattelite photo.
In the list of hotkeys you can find all the necessary hotkeys for all the necessary data on the map.
if you want to change the sattelite photo to the "online" map, then in the folder with the map change the names of the preview and preview2

I recommend at first making a road network and a river network, and then proceed to fill settelsments with houses
and then using fill tool to fill the farm fields.



< Message edited by tebeinteresno -- 10/29/2019 2:10:43 PM >

(in reply to DoubleDeuce)
Post #: 18
RE: The Mayor of Hunfeld - 10/29/2019 6:49:24 AM   
DoubleDeuce


Posts: 1244
Joined: 6/23/2000
From: Crossville, TN
Status: offline
Thanks tebeinteresno. I'll download it and see what I can do. ;-)

Appreciate the help.

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Post #: 19
RE: The Mayor of Hunfeld - 10/31/2019 4:39:04 PM   
edb1815

 

Posts: 8
Joined: 8/16/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: blackcloud6


quote:

ORIGINAL: DoubleDeuce

I was not far behind that position from 83-87 with 2/68 AR, 8th ID (near Schlitz). We had M60A3's and M113's during that time and the same general attachments but we had Vulcans instead of the Stingers (we pretty much got all new equipment last).



When was that? There must have been a sector change at one time turning that area over to the 3rd AD. I can't remember where the 8th ISD was in the GDP when I was there.



I was with 1/68 AR, 8th ID from 86-89 based in Wildflecken. My GDP was south and west of Fulda looking down a long valley with great LOS should the Soviets have attacked straight down the bowling alley! I do remember that the 8th ID was last to get all the new equipment. We transitioned to M1A1s and BFV when I was HHC XO at the end of 1988.

BTW - Silver Lions!!

(in reply to blackcloud6)
Post #: 20
RE: The Mayor of Hunfeld - 11/1/2019 3:09:09 AM   
jwarrenw13

 

Posts: 1541
Joined: 8/12/2000
From: Monroe, LA, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: edb1815


quote:

ORIGINAL: blackcloud6


quote:

ORIGINAL: DoubleDeuce

I was not far behind that position from 83-87 with 2/68 AR, 8th ID (near Schlitz). We had M60A3's and M113's during that time and the same general attachments but we had Vulcans instead of the Stingers (we pretty much got all new equipment last).



When was that? There must have been a sector change at one time turning that area over to the 3rd AD. I can't remember where the 8th ISD was in the GDP when I was there.



I was with 1/68 AR, 8th ID from 86-89 based in Wildflecken. My GDP was south and west of Fulda looking down a long valley with great LOS should the Soviets have attacked straight down the bowling alley! I do remember that the 8th ID was last to get all the new equipment. We transitioned to M1A1s and BFV when I was HHC XO at the end of 1988.

BTW - Silver Lions!!




85-88, 8th ID Div Hqs staff, Bad Kreuznach. Deputy PAO and then PAO. Best wishes to fellow Pathfinders.

Also, started my Army career enlisted, 74-75, 2nd Bde 8th ID, Baumholder. I was an 11B but they found out I had two years of college and assigned me to Bde Hqs as S2 clerk/track driver. So I drove an M577 and an IBM Selectric typewriter. Saw a lot of very interesting things in that job.


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Post #: 21
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