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Russo-German War Tyrone vs Soviet PO - 10/5/2019 6:13:08 PM   
tyronec


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This is the updated version of D21.

There are three significant changes that I have seen so far:
Axis mobile divisions start split up, which means they now mostly take 3MPs on new road instead of 2MPs, so quite a hit for Axis.
One turn less of free rail conversion.
Soviets no longer have supply sources spread all over the map, so more chances to pocket units later into the game and less ports to take care of.

Lots of other changes, and no doubt many that with my limited experience of D21 that am not aware of.
Looks like a good improvement !

Am playing with the PO on +1.

Situation at the start of T3. Rail heads marked.

AGN. A few hexes from Riga, have got Courland cut off.

AGC. Heading for Minsk, there is no supply point in the city. A couple of large pockets on the border.

AGS. Pushing the rail line through the marshes towards Kiev, just hope the PO doesn't react and block it. Will start another rail line from the Romanian border and take that to Odessa. Have got L'Vov cut off, last turn there were heavy tank counter attacks near Brody but this turn they have settled down and will hoopefully surrender quietly.

One possible update - the German cavalry division is the old colour.





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T04 - 10/6/2019 6:31:57 PM   
tyronec


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Start of turn 4.

AGN. Have got up to Riga OK but most of the troops held up by Soviets on the line.

AGC. Approaching Minsk, will try and pocket it this turn. Just going with the one rail line now. Am leaving the larger pockets behind and not going to clear them out.

AGS. My spearhead through the Pripyat is having problems from a Soviet bridging unit on an 'entrenched marsh' hex. Don't know if I have anything that can attack it there except artillery. Not holding up the Bautrupp unit yet, hope I have made a mistake by sending it this route.
The L'Vov pocket got broken by units attacking from the outside, should be able to reseal it with the Romanians joining in.






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RE: T04 - 10/6/2019 8:07:00 PM   
larryfulkerson

 

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Do your Stuka's have a significant anti-shipping value?

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RE: T04 - 10/6/2019 8:26:40 PM   
EwaldvonKleist


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quote:

The L'Vov pocket

WitE flashbacks?

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RE: T04 - 10/6/2019 8:37:20 PM   
Telemecus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist
quote:

The L'Vov pocket

WitE flashbacks?

Perhaps caused by those commenting?


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RE: T04 - 10/7/2019 10:15:01 AM   
tyronec


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quote:

Do your Stuka's have a significant anti-shipping value?

Glad you asked, didn't know how to look this up until I tried.
Is this enough to sink battleships ?

quote:

WitE flashbacks?

I think the overall approach is similar to that in WITE1 but less so to WITE2.
We should perhaps expect Barbarossa to be the same no matter what the game !!!




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T05 - 10/8/2019 4:29:14 PM   
tyronec


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Start of T5.

AGN. Pushing past Riga, next stop Pskov. Am a LONG way behind were I was in the D21 game, maybe 2 moves.

AGC. Get Minsk surrounded, ready to wipe out next turn.

AGS. All well with the Kiev rail line, got that bridging unit eliminated with artillery and planes. Should be out of the marshes in another turn.
Further South the advance continues OK to link up with the guys coming up from Romania.

AGAnton. Had railed more units down to Romania but held off attacking until this turn. Cross the 'border' in three places and should start converting rail towards Odessa.

Had a set back with my L'Vov pocket this turn, for some reason it was not isolated and the Soviets were attacking out of it against my flimsy defence line. Can only think that either ZOCs do not extend into river hexes or more likely they can draw supply through the Carpathian mountains which I thought was impassible. Last pic shows my leaky pocket from T4. Any clarification welcome.
OK -worked it out, there was a gap through the mountains which I had missed.




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< Message edited by tyronec -- 10/8/2019 4:39:59 PM >

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T06 - 10/9/2019 5:47:07 PM   
tyronec


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Start of T06.

AGN. A couple of moves from Pskov. Will see what I can cut off around Tallinn - so Soviet supplies up the coast in this version.

AGC. Two stacks left to clear at Minsk. My lead units heading for Smolensk got wacked, have to be more cautious with recon units.

AGS. Kiev next stop, not sure whether I should aim for a double pincer or just assault - need to read the rules on factories.

AGAnton. Will cross the Dniester this turn and on to Odessa, which does have supply so assault required.

No solid lines anywhere, am generally able to surround Soviet units at will on one turn and then kill them with the follow up.

Security divisions beginning to depart, still have the big pockets on the border to keep covered.

Am getting about 1 hex a turn on average from rail conversion from my 4 rail heads. Have realised that I should be careful not to capture any rail hexes at junctions that are off the planned rail route. Makes for odd play, not sure if I would prefer to have some hex rail repair units rather than the Bautrupp system.




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T07 - 10/11/2019 3:05:12 PM   
tyronec


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Start of T07.

Winter arrives early - July !

AGN. Up to Pskov.

AGC. Soviet line beginning to solidify around Orsha in front of Smolensk. Looks like will need a lot more units in the front line here. Will aim to make a pocket.

AGS. Kiev looks a hard nut to crack, most of the river is impassable. Will look for a crossing to North and/or South and see if I can get behind it.

AGAnton. I hadn't realised most of the Dniester is impassable but have been able to take one crossing so onwards to Odessa.

Rail conversion.
The last two turns have had 5 hexes of useful conversion a turn. Looking at some distances from the rail heads:
Leningrad 53 rail hexes.
Moscow 77 rail hexes.
Kursk 77 rail hexes.
Stalino 85 rail hexes.

Assuming 6 conversions per turn that would give me an advance of about 37 hexes until the mud arrives and another 16 during mud. Am guessing would want to start moving sideways to extend the front line supply from then on, if not earlier.

This would leave:
Leningrad 2 rail hexes.
Moscow 24 rail hexes.
Kursk 24 rail hexes.
Stalino 42 rail hexes.

Looks like an attack on Leningrad is possible but would need to abandon one of the other lines to get near Moscow and am not going to get anywhere near Stalino.









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RE: T07 - 10/11/2019 3:42:15 PM   
sPzAbt653


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quote:

Winter arrives early - July !

That's a pretty healthy event error that will keep you at 98% right up to the mud period. The fix has been posted here:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4693778&mpage=1&key=�

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Post #: 10
T08 - 10/12/2019 8:06:49 AM   
tyronec


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Start of T08

Am going to give up here, the winter is a bit of a hit on supply and also have found that that some of my spare bautrupp units were too near the border and despite doing no rail conversion they seem to be inhibiting the four important ones.

Have learnt some more from this game, should do better next time.

Some of the Axis AA units are fixed, some have 1MP and some are fully mobile - don't know if that is intentional.




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RE: T08 - 10/12/2019 8:09:01 AM   
larryfulkerson

 

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Please use the fixed version for your next go. I'll be watching your progress and comparing it with my own game.

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RE: T08 - 10/12/2019 10:09:29 AM   
sPzAbt653


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quote:

my spare bautrupp units were too near the border

You've got a misconception about what is going on here. There are no 'spare' rail repair units, they are all active, each one has chance of repairing a broken rail each turn, keeping them near the border means that you are not properly focusing them.

Keep three of four stacked up on the three main lines that you want repaired. Keep moving them forward but no need to get them up to the front lines, 'near' is good enough. Later in the game when the front is stabilized is when you can spread them around to greater effect.

The broken rail lines are nuts and your bautrupp units are blind squirrels. Give a squirrel a little help!

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RE: T08 - 10/12/2019 10:13:22 AM   
sPzAbt653


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quote:

Some of the Axis AA units are fixed, some have 1MP and some are fully mobile

It's worth it to check out the scenario document, although some of it is basically the same as the old one, it has been rewritten for this version and some stuff is different.


Axis FlaK Units:
Some of the Axis FlaK Units are scheduled to arrive in Soviet territory on turn 1 for games where the PO controls the Axis. Obviously, these units will only arrive when their scheduled arrival hex is friendly controlled. Most of these units are also unable to move. These restrictions are to help Elmer in defending airfields. Other FlaK units have a movement allowance of one. This is to discourage the human player from using these units unhistorically in the front line. Still other FlaK units have normal movement allowances as they were used in the front lines.


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RE: T08 - 10/12/2019 12:59:29 PM   
tyronec


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Thanks for the clarification.

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RE: T08 - 10/15/2019 3:41:43 PM   
tyronec


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quote:

You've got a misconception about what is going on here. There are no 'spare' rail repair units, they are all active, each one has chance of repairing a broken rail each turn, keeping them near the border means that you are not properly focusing them.

Keep three of four stacked up on the three main lines that you want repaired. Keep moving them forward but no need to get them up to the front lines, 'near' is good enough. Later in the game when the front is stabilized is when you can spread them around to greater effect.

The broken rail lines are nuts and your bautrupp units are blind squirrels. Give a squirrel a little help!

So I have restarted from the beginning and am still having problems with the rail conversion.
Up to T4 it was fine, repairing quite a few useful rail hexes a turn.
Then on T5 the repair rate dropped off.

On T6 am getting 2-4 hexes of rail repair for the turn - have tried rerunning the end of turn several times to see if it was just bad luck but always the same..
Have looked at the T6 turn and T7 starting position to see if rail are getting repaired somewhere else nearby but no other repairs within 5 or so hexes.

Have tried deleting the two units in Finland to see if that had any effect but no difference.

Attach my T6 End of turn - could you have a look at it and maybe spot if I am missing something.


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RE: T08 - 10/15/2019 8:05:29 PM   
sPzAbt653


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Thanks for the file, I took a look, I don't see anything of concern, maybe you are expecting too much? Your railheads won't catch up to the front lines until July 1942. If earlier, then you are doing good, if later then you are doing something wrong.

quote:

Have tried deleting the two units in Finland to see if that had any effect but no difference.

No reason to do that. I mean, I wouldn't design a scenario where that would be something to do. Myself, when there are no Rails up there that need fixin' or if I would rather have the focus in Russia, I will move the Finn one to Helsinki and the German one somewhere out of the way like Kemi port.

I think you are doing good, just deal with the shirty supply in Russia. Remember, it will all be over in 6-8 weeks so it doesn't matter !

I took a look at my latest turn 6 and I don't even follow my own advice. I've got the Bautrupp's scattered all over the front. But I am used to it being bad so I guess it doesn't concern me so much.

It's interesting how much effort the Germans put into Supply and Logistics for France in 1940 compared to how little effort they put into Barbarossa. Probably criminal.

< Message edited by sPzAbt653 -- 10/15/2019 8:06:48 PM >

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RE: T08 - 10/15/2019 9:10:03 PM   
Hellen_slith


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In my go at D21, by March '42 my rail was solidly up to Vyazma, well supplied network to AGC. Around turn 72 or so, my hard drive crashed, but looking at the last screen shot of the rail, it was going well. By that time, I had starting placing Bautrupp one by itself at every railhead. Sometimes 4 or 5 hexes would be repaired, usually at least one hex for AGN / AGC / AGS somewhere every turn. Sometimes 6 or 7. You just have to let them do. Sometimes good, sometimes bad.

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RE: T08 - 10/16/2019 6:13:13 PM   
tyronec


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This is my restart at turn 8.

Am still not sure what is happening with the Baudrupp units, 3-4 rail conversions a turn is IMO just not enough to get anywhere near a line around Leningrad/Moscow/Stalino, so am really counting on some improvement.

AGN. Pskov has fallen, on to Leningrad. Am going to start resting some units every turn to help with supplies.
Should cut off Tallinn next turn but dont thing there are many Soviets to pocket.

AGC. Smolensk is the next target, maybe 3-4 turns to pocket it.

AGS. Almost up to Kiev. Have got across the Dnepr to the North and should be able to hook down behind the garrison from there. Very historical.

AGAnton.Well across the Dnister. Onward to Odessa, have lots of German infantry ready for the assault but don't think the railroad guns are going to be in range.

Am a further than last time, however losses are much heavier (were 258 for 17). Mostly I think from Soviets trashing my lead units.




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T09 - 10/17/2019 8:40:30 AM   
tyronec


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AGN. 26 hexes advance to cut off Leningrad. I need to be leading the advance with some stronger units as an ordinary Panzer unit is getting done over. Supply is still at about 20 on the roads.

AGC. Smolensk coming up.

AGS. I need to work down from the North behind Kiev and clear all the bridges on the way, otherwise supply is going to be desperate.

AGAnton. Should be getting stuck into Odessa soon, the some Soviets have counterattacked which will help.




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RE: T09 - 10/17/2019 10:52:42 AM   
StuccoFresco

 

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Will you try a flanking move on Kiev from the North? That river crossing SE of Chernobyl looks vulnerable.

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RE: T09 - 10/18/2019 5:31:56 PM   
tyronec


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That was the plan and I think it would have worked OK.

However have really screwed up and am going to abandon this game.

Think I was advancing too fast, was getting lead units pushed back/trashed every turn for no benefit. Better to just advance enough to keep clearing the track ahead and only when there is good reason charge forward.

More serious was I had a load of units pocketed on the border. When the Security units went home a couple of Soviet Tank units got out and started trashing the rail line, even worse I didn't notice for a couple of turns.

May come back and have another go after a break.

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RE: T09 - 10/30/2019 6:20:11 PM   
Hellen_slith


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I wish you would have continued this,
I started one as Axis,
and am already (on turn 4) having problems with rail / supply
as Axis, but already in Riga
pushing toward Leningrad and Kiev ....

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