Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

Russo-German War 1941-45

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> The Operational Art of War IV >> Mods and Scenarios >> Russo-German War 1941-45 Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Russo-German War 1941-45 - 9/27/2019 9:00:04 AM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9146
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline
This scenario is the Axis Programmed Opponent [PO] Version of the Directive 21 Scenario. This means that you can now play as the Soviets against the Axis Computer. Human vs. Human is also possible. As there are extensive changes in other areas, it was felt that a name change was best, in order to avoid confusion. Below is a condensed list of changes [the full change list is several pages long].

Axis 5-Track PO added
Equipment Database changed to a revised Derek Weichs Database.
OOB Revisions.
TO&E Revisions [based on the works of Fredrik Henriksson [German units] and David Glantz [Soviet units].
Proficiency Revisions.
Soviet Production Revisions.
Terrain/Map Revisions.
Replacement Revisions.
Working on Naval Combat Results. Naval Attrition Divider changed from 10 to 100, then from 100 to 50.
See the attached scenario document for further details.

This has been worked on for over a year. Most of the changes won't be immediately noticeable and actually have little to no effect on game play. The Axis PO is a big part of this, but it is basically a roughed-in item. It is there, and it is functional, but it will take time and playtesting to improve. On a scale of 1-10 it currently probably rates a 3. One C2C run has resulted in an Axis loss in May 1943. Some adjustments have been made and a second C2C run has resulted in an Axis loss in November 1943. At this point it can't hurt to have humans that may be interested in checking it out.

v1.3 posted Feb. 25, 2020
PO Adjustments

v1.2 posted Dec. 22, 2019
Added more StuG's [StuG Abt's are not included, the StuG's are contained in other units].
6.SS division now withdraws to the West Front if Finland surrenders.
Restored Turn 1's positive Movement Bias for the Axis [which had been left out].

v1.1 posted Oct. 11, 2019
Corrected error that caused Winter to affect the Axis in July 1941.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by sPzAbt653 -- 2/26/2020 1:45:13 AM >
Post #: 1
RE: Russo-German War 1941-45 - 9/27/2019 1:17:51 PM   
Alan Sharif

 

Posts: 1004
Joined: 8/1/2001
From: UK.
Status: offline
Thanks for all your hard work.


_____________________________

A Sharif

(in reply to sPzAbt653)
Post #: 2
RE: Russo-German War 1941-45 - 9/27/2019 1:51:01 PM   
tyronec


Posts: 3616
Joined: 8/7/2015
From: Portaferry, N. Ireland
Status: offline
Does this effectively upgrade D21 if you were playing Axis vs Soviet PO ?

(in reply to Alan Sharif)
Post #: 3
RE: Russo-German War 1941-45 - 9/27/2019 1:52:34 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 38832
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tyronec

Does this effectively upgrade D21 if you were playing Axis vs Soviet PO ?

I think it does. Seems to be the same map, few changes I guess.

_____________________________


(in reply to tyronec)
Post #: 4
RE: Russo-German War 1941-45 - 9/27/2019 1:57:27 PM   
StuccoFresco

 

Posts: 459
Joined: 9/17/2004
From: Italy
Status: offline
Good job!

(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 5
RE: Russo-German War 1941-45 - 9/27/2019 2:42:35 PM   
Zovs


Posts: 4761
Joined: 2/23/2009
From: United States
Status: offline
Seems like this may be a good PBEM game?

_____________________________


War in the East/War in the East II - Alpha Test Teams
WarPlan Beta Tester
DG CWIE2 tester/SPWW2 and SPMBT playtester/scenario & campaign creator

(in reply to StuccoFresco)
Post #: 6
RE: Russo-German War 1941-45 - 9/27/2019 2:43:53 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 38832
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zovs

Seems like this may be a good PBEM game?

Try it and find out. I'd like to know the answer to that myself.

_____________________________


(in reply to Zovs)
Post #: 7
RE: Russo-German War 1941-45 - 9/28/2019 10:38:55 AM   
tigercub


Posts: 1967
Joined: 2/3/2003
From: brisbane oz
Status: offline
i am up for a game!PBM

Tigercub

< Message edited by tigercub -- 9/28/2019 10:39:16 AM >


_____________________________


You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life

(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 8
RE: Russo-German War 1941-45 - 9/28/2019 12:53:30 PM   
DD696

 

Posts: 872
Joined: 7/9/2004
From: near Savannah, Ga
Status: offline
Browsing through, I find the German 6th Army to be an artillery unit with lots of artillery, but no regular corps components. Just wondering if this is intentional?

_____________________________

USMC: 1970-1977. A United States Marine.
We don't take kindly to idjits.

(in reply to sPzAbt653)
Post #: 9
RE: Russo-German War 1941-45 - 9/28/2019 4:07:20 PM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9146
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tyronec
Does this effectively upgrade D21 if you were playing Axis vs Soviet PO ?

I don't understand the question

quote:

Seems to be the same map

It is but there are Terrain/Map Revisions, I've gone over every hex [but it was quite a boring job so I may have missed a few]. No more rails thru difficult hexes, no more rivers in the lakes, etc.

quote:

Seems like this may be a good PBEM game?

I don't know if it is 'good' because I don't pbem and it hasn't been tested that way, but Human vs. Human is also possible.

quote:

I find the German 6th Army to be an artillery unit with lots of artillery, but no regular corps components. Just wondering if this is intentional?

German Artillery:
Besides the divisional Artillery included in the Headquarters units, the Germans had a pool of independent Artillery. These Artillery units have been organized under their historical German Korps HQ's at the start of Barbarossa as ArKo [Artillery Commander] and Harko [Higher Artillery Commander] units. While the Germans never mastered the art of massed artillery as their opponents did, these German Artillery units provided Artillery support wherever it was deemed necessary. In the scenario they are organized as Korps formations so the player is encouraged to use them as they were historically [spread across the front], but does allow the unhistorical option to mass them.

(in reply to tyronec)
Post #: 10
RE: Russo-German War 1941-45 - 9/28/2019 4:28:59 PM   
tyronec


Posts: 3616
Joined: 8/7/2015
From: Portaferry, N. Ireland
Status: offline
Was asking if you could play against Soviet PO but have downloaded it and see you can.

< Message edited by tyronec -- 9/28/2019 5:12:39 PM >

(in reply to sPzAbt653)
Post #: 11
RE: Russo-German War 1941-45 - 10/3/2019 7:03:38 PM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9146
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline
quote:

Just an Idea, perhaps there should be an event where Soviet mothball Baltic Fleet

[From a comment Larry's current D21 AAR, but I didn't want to impinge on his thread.]

It's a sore topic for me, as a scenario designer, how to handle the 'on paper formidable' Soviet Navy. Having just gone thru all the testing and changes for the newer version, the Soviet Naval units were a nuisance, and I still couldn't come to a comfortable answer.

If Leningrad/Kronstadt falls, the Soviet Baltic Fleet would have been scuttled to prevent Jerry from using them. We can't argue that, can we ?

The Soviet Navy was not going to do any serious 'navying'. See Albert Seaton's book 'Russo-German War' for a nice unbiased rundown of the Red Navy's capabilities.

I thought we had put Withdrawal Events in D21 to get those units out of our hair under the right conditions, maybe I mis-remember. But I have put such events into this later version.

(in reply to sPzAbt653)
Post #: 12
RE: Russo-German War 1941-45 - 2/26/2020 1:49:06 AM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9146
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline
Completed a play thru and have made some adjustments to the Soviet PO based on the end file. The new version is 1.3, as seen below at lower left, and is attached to Post #1.

Judging by the streams of Soviet traffic coming from the East, I am glad this one ended as it looks to get rough soon!




Attachment (1)

(in reply to sPzAbt653)
Post #: 13
RE: Russo-German War 1941-45 - 2/29/2020 10:27:34 AM   
fulcrum28


Posts: 492
Joined: 2/28/2010
Status: offline
i put the .sce file in documents/games/TOAW4/scenarios but i dont see the scenario in the game menu. I think i(m using v.4.1.0.20

_____________________________


The most comprehensive website on the IJN Imperial Japanese Navy Y:"Let us enjoy the beauty of the moon (sinking aboard Hiryu)

(in reply to sPzAbt653)
Post #: 14
RE: Russo-German War 1941-45 - 2/29/2020 10:28:06 AM   
fulcrum28


Posts: 492
Joined: 2/28/2010
Status: offline
scenarios/WWII East Front

_____________________________


The most comprehensive website on the IJN Imperial Japanese Navy Y:"Let us enjoy the beauty of the moon (sinking aboard Hiryu)

(in reply to fulcrum28)
Post #: 15
RE: Russo-German War 1941-45 - 2/29/2020 11:27:59 AM   
fulcrum28


Posts: 492
Joined: 2/28/2010
Status: offline
soviet units in the border are mostly regiments III?

_____________________________


The most comprehensive website on the IJN Imperial Japanese Navy Y:"Let us enjoy the beauty of the moon (sinking aboard Hiryu)

(in reply to fulcrum28)
Post #: 16
RE: Russo-German War 1941-45 - 2/29/2020 11:35:51 AM   
fulcrum28


Posts: 492
Joined: 2/28/2010
Status: offline
i cant see the range of artillery or aircrafts (range circles) ?

_____________________________


The most comprehensive website on the IJN Imperial Japanese Navy Y:"Let us enjoy the beauty of the moon (sinking aboard Hiryu)

(in reply to fulcrum28)
Post #: 17
RE: Russo-German War 1941-45 - 2/29/2020 8:59:18 PM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9146
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fulcrum28
i put the .sce file in documents/games/TOAW4/scenarios but i dont see the scenario in the game menu. I think i(m using v.4.1.0.20

I guess you got it straightened out?

quote:

soviet units in the border are mostly regiments III?

Yes?

quote:

i cant see the range of artillery or aircrafts (range circles) ?

I am hitting 'I' and the Range Circles are shown?

(in reply to fulcrum28)
Post #: 18
RE: Russo-German War 1941-45 - 3/30/2020 1:27:14 AM   
Michael T


Posts: 4387
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: online
Wrong thread.



< Message edited by Michael T -- 3/30/2020 1:38:22 AM >


_____________________________


(in reply to sPzAbt653)
Post #: 19
RE: Russo-German War 1941-45 - 3/30/2020 10:08:21 PM   
Michael T


Posts: 4387
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: online
Keen to give this one a go PBEM++

Any recommended house rules from the designer?

_____________________________


(in reply to Michael T)
Post #: 20
RE: Russo-German War 1941-45 - 3/31/2020 2:18:59 AM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9146
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline
Maybe in the doc but I'm not going to read thru it to find out I do remember there are some suggestions in the Axis Minor Nations part.

(in reply to Michael T)
Post #: 21
RE: Russo-German War 1941-45 - 3/31/2020 4:55:32 AM   
Michael T


Posts: 4387
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: online
I read the doc. So nothing else then. Looking forward to playing it once I get familiar with TOAW again.

_____________________________


(in reply to sPzAbt653)
Post #: 22
RE: Russo-German War 1941-45 - 4/3/2020 2:50:35 PM   
Hellen_slith


Posts: 1577
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline
I have been playing the version 1.3 as Soviets versus Elmer Germans, and there are some nuances in the Soviet armies that I think might make this one a bit difficult for the Soviet player in PBEM ... esp. the units in South / Southwest Front that do not get movement points, and the various tank units for Soviets that seem to only get 1 movement point per turn.

But I think the scene is a lot fun for versus computer, either as Axis or as Soviet.

< Message edited by Hellen_slith -- 4/3/2020 2:52:02 PM >

(in reply to Michael T)
Post #: 23
RE: Russo-German War 1941-45 - 4/4/2020 2:25:12 AM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9146
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline
Thanks, I'll take a look at those things. They were created for Elmer and probably should not be there for the human.

(in reply to Hellen_slith)
Post #: 24
RE: Russo-German War 1941-45 - 4/7/2020 9:30:28 PM   
Michael T


Posts: 4387
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: online
After reading the above I put my game of this on hold. However I have a question.

It seems counter intuitive that in this scenario German Infantry divisions are more capable of forcing RBC on weak Soviet units than Panzer Divisions (as they are broke down in to components), so Panzers are far less capable of forcing RBC on weak Soviets. Forgive me but this is very strange. Am I missing something?

Why is the scenario designed like this? Why not have the Panzer Divisions also as one strong unit capable of forcing RBC on weak units?

This seems to me a critical issue for the early days of Barbarossa and as I said counter intuitive.

Is there some way to get RBC with a stack of units rather than just a single unit?



_____________________________


(in reply to sPzAbt653)
Post #: 25
RE: Russo-German War 1941-45 - 4/28/2020 1:44:34 AM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9146
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline
quote:

What I would most like to see, is the air units in their own formations.

I think those are units that contain the early plane models that should get destroyed early on and then they are out of the way. I noticed, as you have too, that they hang around quite some time. I'll take a look at them.

quote:

they have to march to a rail head. Frustrating with units that appear there around Archangelsk.

There is this Point [seen below] out in the wilderness, and the Soviets will reconstitute there, in order to be pretty far from the Axis reach, which helps Elmer. Maybe for the Human Soviet Player the Point can be removed.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to sPzAbt653)
Post #: 26
RE: Russo-German War 1941-45 - 4/28/2020 9:24:32 AM   
tigercub


Posts: 1967
Joined: 2/3/2003
From: brisbane oz
Status: offline
i am with Michael T the panzer Div`s should be one unit with the option to break it down the way it is sucks! is there someone who can change this i looked at doing it but was beyond me!

Tigercub


_____________________________


You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life

(in reply to sPzAbt653)
Post #: 27
RE: Russo-German War 1941-45 - 4/28/2020 6:17:42 PM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9146
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline
At the beginning of time we had one unit Pz Div's and folks complained that breaking them down results in a loss of efficiency and only three units and reduced ability to exploit and maybe something else I can't remember. So we changed them to separate units. I've always wanted to add Theater Options to re-combine them if the player wants, but not until they upgrade later in the scenario. It looks like you guys want them combined from the start but that can't be done because TO's don't take effect until the following turn.

< Message edited by sPzAbt653 -- 4/28/2020 6:18:07 PM >

(in reply to tigercub)
Post #: 28
RE: Russo-German War 1941-45 - 4/28/2020 7:42:21 PM   
Hellen_slith


Posts: 1577
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline
FWIW: "reduced ability to EXPLOIT" should be, IMHO, the least factor in deciding effects of units.

For me (casual player currently on Soviets turn 104 against German PO) the Soviet OOB should be the primary focus of revision (if you want to focus on playability that is, as far as PBEM as Sovs) ....

Lately, every time I fire up a round against Elmer (Axis), I find myself pulling my hair out, b/c of the Soviet OOB [seems badly fractured, to me] e.g. take a look at First Shock Army (soviet) ... NIGHTMARE for human!!!!

That might play well as Germans flesh v. Sov PO, and I have played it that way very enjoyably, but what a human would might want to do w/ Sovs in this is very highly frustrating as a Human Soviet. Don't get me wrong, I love the scene and I keep trying my best as Sovs but it is very very hard ... and frustrating ... as a Soviet human player. I think it would be very very very frustrating against human Germans.

< Message edited by Hellen_slith -- 4/28/2020 7:50:28 PM >

(in reply to sPzAbt653)
Post #: 29
RE: Russo-German War 1941-45 - 4/29/2020 12:26:26 AM   
tigercub


Posts: 1967
Joined: 2/3/2003
From: brisbane oz
Status: offline
if they could be a theatre option that would be fantastic!

Tigercub

_____________________________


You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life

(in reply to sPzAbt653)
Post #: 30
Page:   [1] 2   next >   >>
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> The Operational Art of War IV >> Mods and Scenarios >> Russo-German War 1941-45 Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.148