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Whats going on with cap? - 9/23/2019 7:42:22 PM   
jagsdomain

 

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I have 3 p40 tiger sq at the base above Rangoon. Its 4 hexes away. They will not fly cap even if I target Rangoon.
My Buffaloa based at Rangoon have.

< Message edited by jagsdomain -- 9/23/2019 10:10:16 PM >
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RE: Whats going on with cap? - 9/23/2019 7:48:42 PM   
Leandros


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jagsdomain

I have 3 p40 tiger sq at the base above Rangoon. Its 4 hexes away. They will not fly cap even if I target Rangoon.
My Buffolowa based at Rangoon have.

If you do not have drop tanks, which the "B"s didn't have, 4 hex may be too far for LR CAPs.


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RE: Whats going on with cap? - 9/23/2019 7:58:35 PM   
DConn

 

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Also, be sure that the mission given is LR Cap, with Rangoon as the target, rather than just CAP.

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RE: Whats going on with cap? - 9/23/2019 8:09:09 PM   
btd64


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The B's have a range of 5....GP

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RE: Whats going on with cap? - 9/23/2019 8:21:14 PM   
Canoerebel


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Weather often interferes with LRCAP. Burma is a good place for bad weather.

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RE: Whats going on with cap? - 9/23/2019 8:41:28 PM   
Leandros


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quote:

ORIGINAL: btd64

The B's have a range of 5....GP

On LR CAP?

Fred


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RE: Whats going on with cap? - 9/23/2019 9:01:10 PM   
btd64


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Max range. no drop tanks available....GP

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RE: Whats going on with cap? - 9/23/2019 10:20:55 PM   
Richard III


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Just Curious if this is a PBEM game :)

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RE: Whats going on with cap? - 9/23/2019 10:46:44 PM   
jagsdomain

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard III

Just Curious if this is a PBEM game :)

No

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RE: Whats going on with cap? - 9/23/2019 10:48:56 PM   
jagsdomain

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DConn

Also, be sure that the mission given is LR Cap, with Rangoon as the target, rather than just CAP.

5 is normal range. Could they be at wrong altitude?

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RE: Whats going on with cap? - 9/23/2019 10:56:41 PM   
Richard III


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Move 1 or better 2 0f the US Volunteer P-40 Sq. to Rangoon, set at 50%+/- CAP, set them above the incoming strikes altitude, set range to 0. They will decimate even the elite Naval Zero sweeps.

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RE: Whats going on with cap? - 9/23/2019 10:59:03 PM   
jagsdomain

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard III

Move 1 or better 2 0f the US Volunteer P-40 Sq. to Rangoon, set at 50%+/- CAP, set them above the incoming strikes altitude, set range to 0. They will decimate even the elite Naval Zero sweeps.

I can send 1 but not the other 2. I will set it to 0 but what about the other units 4 hex away. Why will they not engage?

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RE: Whats going on with cap? - 9/23/2019 11:37:59 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jagsdomain


quote:

ORIGINAL: DConn

Also, be sure that the mission given is LR Cap, with Rangoon as the target, rather than just CAP.

5 is normal range. Could they be at wrong altitude?


5 is normal range, but they would only have fuel to get there and return almost immediately. Not much LRCAP loiter time there.

I don't think the combat coding uses fuel for the extra hex of extended range unless it is ordered to perform the mission at that number of hexes (6, in this case). Just giving the squadron a 6 hex range to perform a five hex mission may not get it to use the last dribs of fuel on LRCAP at 5.

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RE: Whats going on with cap? - 9/23/2019 11:39:28 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jagsdomain


quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard III

Move 1 or better 2 0f the US Volunteer P-40 Sq. to Rangoon, set at 50%+/- CAP, set them above the incoming strikes altitude, set range to 0. They will decimate even the elite Naval Zero sweeps.

I can send 1 but not the other 2. I will set it to 0 but what about the other units 4 hex away. Why will they not engage?


Four hexes away and set to LRCAP the same hex? Or four hexes away doing CAP in their own area?

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RE: Whats going on with cap? - 9/23/2019 11:50:37 PM   
Richard III


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: jagsdomain


quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard III

Move 1 or better 2 0f the US Volunteer P-40 Sq. to Rangoon, set at 50%+/- CAP, set them above the incoming strikes altitude, set range to 0. They will decimate even the elite Naval Zero sweeps.

I can send 1 but not the other 2. I will set it to 0 but what about the other units 4 hex away. Why will they not engage?


Four hexes away and set to LRCAP the same hex? Or four hexes away doing CAP in their own area?


If you click on a hex within range of the P-40`s, the LRC screen will come up and you can split the CAP between the two, say 30-30 with 40 set on rest. This is with the BETA.

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RE: Whats going on with cap? - 9/24/2019 12:04:37 AM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard III


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: jagsdomain


quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard III

Move 1 or better 2 0f the US Volunteer P-40 Sq. to Rangoon, set at 50%+/- CAP, set them above the incoming strikes altitude, set range to 0. They will decimate even the elite Naval Zero sweeps.

I can send 1 but not the other 2. I will set it to 0 but what about the other units 4 hex away. Why will they not engage?


Four hexes away and set to LRCAP the same hex? Or four hexes away doing CAP in their own area?


If you click on a hex within range of the P-40`s, the LRC screen will come up and you can split the CAP between the two, say 30-30 with 40 set on rest. This is with the BETA.

Yes - but I was unclear if he was suggesting the aircraft on CAP over their own base should react 160 miles to an enemy raid, or whether he meant that some of the LRCAP he was talking about came from bases only four hexes away and would therefore have more loiter time.
As with so many things, it's complicated by weather, leaders, altitude settings versus the raid altitude, presence of radar , etc.


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RE: Whats going on with cap? - 9/24/2019 12:27:03 AM   
jdsrae


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Is the airfield size 1?
Does LRCAP fly from a level 1 airfield?

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RE: Whats going on with cap? - 9/24/2019 12:54:06 AM   
btd64


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A level 1 airfield will only fly defensive cap over its own base. No other missions will fly....GP

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RE: Whats going on with cap? - 9/24/2019 12:59:53 AM   
Canoerebel


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Other missions will fly from a Level 1 airfield, like recon, nav search and I think 1EB. But LRCAP and sweeps won't.

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RE: Whats going on with cap? - 9/24/2019 8:28:04 AM   
Leandros


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quote:

ORIGINAL: btd64

A level 1 airfield will only fly defensive cap over its own base. No other missions will fly....GP

Well, if so, that explains it.

Fred

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RE: Whats going on with cap? - 9/24/2019 8:29:47 AM   
Leandros


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Other missions will fly from a Level 1 airfield, like recon, nav search and I think 1EB. But LRCAP and sweeps won't.

Escorts?

Fred


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RE: Whats going on with cap? - 9/24/2019 11:34:52 AM   
Squamry

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jagsdomain


quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard III

Move 1 or better 2 0f the US Volunteer P-40 Sq. to Rangoon, set at 50%+/- CAP, set them above the incoming strikes altitude, set range to 0. They will decimate even the elite Naval Zero sweeps.

I can send 1 but not the other 2. I will set it to 0 but what about the other units 4 hex away. Why will they not engage?


The other 2 have restricted China HQs. If you want to move them to somewhere that is not China then you will have to change to a different HQ.

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RE: Whats going on with cap? - 9/24/2019 12:03:22 PM   
HansBolter


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What I have not yet seen anyone state is that CAP has a default range of 3 hexes unless you restrict the range of the unit as some one above suggested by setting it to zero.

With range set to zero it will fly CAP only over its own base. With range set to whatever is normal for the unit, it will fly CAP three hexes out from its base.

To get any CAP over a hex at a range of 4 hexes the units have to be set to LRCAP, or Long Range CAP. They will only fly over the target hex or Task Force.
LRCP has diminishing return they further away the target hex is from the squadron base hex.

No squadrons at Rangoon flying CAP will ever cover anything 4 hexes from Rangoon.

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RE: Whats going on with cap? - 9/25/2019 2:43:05 AM   
jagsdomain

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

What I have not yet seen anyone state is that CAP has a default range of 3 hexes unless you restrict the range of the unit as some one above suggested by setting it to zero.

With range set to zero it will fly CAP only over its own base. With range set to whatever is normal for the unit, it will fly CAP three hexes out from its base.

To get any CAP over a hex at a range of 4 hexes the units have to be set to LRCAP, or Long Range CAP. They will only fly over the target hex or Task Force.
LRCP has diminishing return they further away the target hex is from the squadron base hex.

No squadrons at Rangoon flying CAP will ever cover anything 4 hexes from Rangoon.

Really? Even if you have it set to 6 which is the range.
I thought long range would be beyond the 6 hex limit.

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RE: Whats going on with cap? - 9/25/2019 3:23:20 AM   
BBfanboy


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Think about it - the CAP does not know which direction the attack will come from so it will disperse in a circle at the range set. At range 3 or 120 NM, a squadron of 33 aircraft at 100% CAP would be thin indeed - that's an area of about 10,000 Square NM. At range 6 (240 NM) the area to be covered would be over 45,000 Sq. NM. So it seems likely the developers restricted the CAP radius to something worthwhile calculating for odds of an interception. I never set CAP more than one hex - you can't detect the incoming raid anyway.


< Message edited by BBfanboy -- 9/25/2019 12:48:30 PM >


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RE: Whats going on with cap? - 9/25/2019 11:13:00 AM   
HansBolter


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jagsdomain


quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

What I have not yet seen anyone state is that CAP has a default range of 3 hexes unless you restrict the range of the unit as some one above suggested by setting it to zero.

With range set to zero it will fly CAP only over its own base. With range set to whatever is normal for the unit, it will fly CAP three hexes out from its base.

To get any CAP over a hex at a range of 4 hexes the units have to be set to LRCAP, or Long Range CAP. They will only fly over the target hex or Task Force.
LRCP has diminishing return they further away the target hex is from the squadron base hex.

No squadrons at Rangoon flying CAP will ever cover anything 4 hexes from Rangoon.

Really? Even if you have it set to 6 which is the range.
I thought long range would be beyond the 6 hex limit.



No matter what the range of the fighter is, and some later war Allied fighters have considerable normal range, CAP is hard coded for a maximum range of three hexes.

BBfanboy provided a good explanation of why.

This is why the game has the LRCAP function for providing air cover at ranges beyond normal CAP range.

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RE: Whats going on with cap? - 9/25/2019 10:54:31 PM   
jagsdomain

 

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Thanks everyone!

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RE: Whats going on with cap? - 9/26/2019 3:57:41 PM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter


quote:

ORIGINAL: jagsdomain


quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

What I have not yet seen anyone state is that CAP has a default range of 3 hexes unless you restrict the range of the unit as some one above suggested by setting it to zero.

With range set to zero it will fly CAP only over its own base. With range set to whatever is normal for the unit, it will fly CAP three hexes out from its base.

To get any CAP over a hex at a range of 4 hexes the units have to be set to LRCAP, or Long Range CAP. They will only fly over the target hex or Task Force.
LRCP has diminishing return they further away the target hex is from the squadron base hex.

No squadrons at Rangoon flying CAP will ever cover anything 4 hexes from Rangoon.

Really? Even if you have it set to 6 which is the range.
I thought long range would be beyond the 6 hex limit.



No matter what the range of the fighter is, and some later war Allied fighters have considerable normal range, CAP is hard coded for a maximum range of three hexes.

BBfanboy provided a good explanation of why.

This is why the game has the LRCAP function for providing air cover at ranges beyond normal CAP range.


Do you have a citation on the hard-coded limit? Because that's not my experience. You can have CAP set to a range of 4, 5, 6, etc., and they will react to those hexes. They just won't be very effective.

I think the OP needed to set LRCAP, not CAP. That's where his problem lay.

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RE: Whats going on with cap? - 9/26/2019 4:48:34 PM   
HansBolter


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter


quote:

ORIGINAL: jagsdomain


quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

What I have not yet seen anyone state is that CAP has a default range of 3 hexes unless you restrict the range of the unit as some one above suggested by setting it to zero.

With range set to zero it will fly CAP only over its own base. With range set to whatever is normal for the unit, it will fly CAP three hexes out from its base.

To get any CAP over a hex at a range of 4 hexes the units have to be set to LRCAP, or Long Range CAP. They will only fly over the target hex or Task Force.
LRCP has diminishing return they further away the target hex is from the squadron base hex.

No squadrons at Rangoon flying CAP will ever cover anything 4 hexes from Rangoon.

Really? Even if you have it set to 6 which is the range.
I thought long range would be beyond the 6 hex limit.



No matter what the range of the fighter is, and some later war Allied fighters have considerable normal range, CAP is hard coded for a maximum range of three hexes.

BBfanboy provided a good explanation of why.

This is why the game has the LRCAP function for providing air cover at ranges beyond normal CAP range.


Do you have a citation on the hard-coded limit? Because that's not my experience. You can have CAP set to a range of 4, 5, 6, etc., and they will react to those hexes. They just won't be very effective.

I think the OP needed to set LRCAP, not CAP. That's where his problem lay.



I'm at work and unable to dig for the reference. I'm pretty sure that has been the formula since the game scale changed from 60 nautical miles per hex to 40 when AE replaced WITP. It is possible for pilots with very high skill to exceed range limits in all kinds of missions. Devs stated this long ago.

Usually, night CAP doesn't extend beyond the base hex, but I have seen multiple occasions in '45 and '46 where it extended out an additional hex and have attributed it to the high experience levels of the pilots.

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RE: Whats going on with cap? - 9/27/2019 9:23:23 PM   
rustysi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Other missions will fly from a Level 1 airfield, like recon, nav search and I think 1EB. But LRCAP and sweeps won't.


No. No offensive missions from a level one airbase.


< Message edited by rustysi -- 9/27/2019 9:24:02 PM >


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