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Comments - 8/15/2019 1:26:13 AM   
canuckgamer

 

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From what I've seen, WarPlan leans more toward a board wargame while Strategic Command WIE is more toward a computer wargame. The graphics of the two games reinforces this impression.

I have SC WIE and am having a lot of fun playing it by PBEM. I did not purchase SC World at War because I don't like the change in scale of the European front. If and when the Pacific theatre is added to War Plan I will consider buying it. However I believe the only way to handle a game with both fronts is to have entry/exit hexes between the two and have different map scales for the European vs. the Pacific theatres. This is how it works in the boardgame World in Flames.

I like the fact that there is some limited stacking in WarPlan and hope that naval warfare is not as abstracted as it is in SC which is weakness of SC.

I'll be keeping a close eye on comments and feedback once it is released.
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RE: Comments - 8/15/2019 7:01:54 AM   
juntoalmar


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Personally, I think the whole world with hexes of the same scale approach in Matrix World in Flames works wonderful.

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RE: Comments - 8/15/2019 4:02:39 PM   
AlvaroSousa


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Pacific Theater and a global is in the works. Making a game of that scale takes time and the game mechanics need to be flushed out in Europe first since it encompasses all aspects of the game.

To answer some questions on scale......

If you make the Pacific to scale of Europe it would be 4x the size and mostly ocean.

As for the naval system in WarPlan it is fleet stacks of naval groups.

Each naval group is 2 capital ships + support ships or a group of cruisers + support ships.

Each fleet can hold an unlimited number of groups in port
Each fleet can hold 9 naval groups at sea with a maximum of 3 CV groups

There is naval deception as you don't have information on the enemy fleet until you get detection levels on it.

The Battle of the Atlantic is fought by the Axis sending subs out to convoy lanes and the Allies assigning escorts to these lanes. But you don't have to chase physical counters. If I remember there are 8 zones. You simply assign escorts to a zone. A maximum of 10 escorts can protect a convoy lane. Extras are there to take losses. But early on the Allies are way short of escorts.



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(in reply to juntoalmar)
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RE: Comments - 8/15/2019 6:36:24 PM   
juntoalmar


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quote:

Each fleet can hold an unlimited number of groups in port


Wouldn't make sense have some limits on the # of groups in a port? Having the possibility to put the whole RN or US Navy (even both, if there are no limits) in a tiny port in Iceland seems pretty unrealistic.

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RE: Comments - 8/22/2019 1:28:10 AM   
scout1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juntoalmar


quote:

Each fleet can hold an unlimited number of groups in port


Wouldn't make sense have some limits on the # of groups in a port? Having the possibility to put the whole RN or US Navy (even both, if there are no limits) in a tiny port in Iceland seems pretty unrealistic.

quote:




Agreed ….. but have you not heard of Shangri-La ….





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(in reply to juntoalmar)
Post #: 5
RE: Comments - 8/22/2019 1:58:10 PM   
AlvaroSousa


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Well consider this. Technically you can have any number of ships outside a port. They are moored just off shore. All ports have port defenses.

So say I have 2 carrier fleets with 6 carrier groups total. What would be a juicier target?

Some small fleet in a large port with a lot of defenses?
Or a large fleet in a small port with few defenses?

AA increases by the # of naval groups but it has a smaller rate of return the more ships you have. While the carrier strike forces are not limited in their ability to hit. So in the large port with 1 carrier group you can only sink one carrier group. In the smaller port loaded with ships you might take 50% more air losses but have the chance to destroy several carrier groups.

So the system is self regulating to where it encourages players to port their fleets correctly.

So now say we have 2 moderate fleets in large ports balanced out. Now if I come over with my 2 carrier fleets I have to attack fleets who's defenses are effectively doubled because of the ports they are in. It costs me more planes to kill those fleets. Now say I miss sinking some carriers and on the opponent's turn they come out. I am close to their shoreline and easily spotted with depleted carriers.

Again naturally a player should want to split their fleets in port. Stacking a huge fleet in port with a small amount of port defenses is just a shooting gallery for the enemy.

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Games worked on

Designer of the Strategic Command 2 products
- Brute Force (mod)
- Assault on Communism
- Assault on Democracy

Designer of the Strategic Command 3 products
- Map Image Importer

(in reply to juntoalmar)
Post #: 6
RE: Comments - 8/22/2019 5:51:54 PM   
Meteor2


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That is understandable, but nevertheless it should be impossible to sail a carrier group to e. g. port in greenland or iceland.
There is no docking capacity, no logistics or a drydock for maintainance. London or Scapa flow should do the job.
So, I think, that there are barriers, that should be present in a sim-like game.
If every single Island in the pacific would be able to dock the Japanese main fleet, it would feel wrong.

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)
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RE: Comments - 8/22/2019 7:13:11 PM   
AlvaroSousa


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Well you also can't repair at a small port.

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- Brute Force (mod)
- Assault on Communism
- Assault on Democracy

Designer of the Strategic Command 3 products
- Map Image Importer

(in reply to Meteor2)
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RE: Comments - 8/23/2019 7:17:46 AM   
juntoalmar


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I agree with meteor2 regarding the differences of a big port vs small port regarding logistics, fuel tanks, etc…

But, in the end, all that matters is how the decision affects the game dynamics. For example, in WiF major ports can hold as many ships as the player wants, and minor ports have a limit. Independently of how well that mimics the reality, some ports in the game (Truk, Singapore, Gibraltar, Scapa Flow, Pearl Harbor…) have capital importance compared to the rest for this reason (partially, there are other factors like being between several sea areas).

Without that limitation, any port close to Pearl Harbor or Scapa Flow could substitute them… and that seems like a bad thing to me.

But it's just an opinion, as I haven't played the beta (sigh). I guess the optimal would be that during the development a few alternatives were tested to see what works best.


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(in reply to AlvaroSousa)
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RE: Comments - 8/23/2019 2:31:03 PM   
AlvaroSousa


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I could put in a supply limiting factor in there. That's not a bad idea actually. 1 naval group per point in any port that can't repair units. That would make a difference. The A.I. uses programmed ports for it's naval grouping.

Thanks for giving me the idea and reminding me about supply.

_____________________________

Games worked on

Designer of the Strategic Command 2 products
- Brute Force (mod)
- Assault on Communism
- Assault on Democracy

Designer of the Strategic Command 3 products
- Map Image Importer

(in reply to juntoalmar)
Post #: 10
RE: Comments - 8/23/2019 4:03:18 PM   
Meteor2


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Thanks for taking that into account.
By the way, are major ports (Truk, Kwajalein or PH) then dependent on the supply levels?
That means, if I would sent Uboats to the sea zones, would then the supply level drop and maybe big numbers of ships cannot be replenished any more?

Waiting to see all the mechanics in an AAR!

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)
Post #: 11
RE: Comments - 8/23/2019 4:25:05 PM   
AlvaroSousa


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Air and ships in the area of a port affect the supply stockpile for land and air units reducing it down on both sides.

To keep things simple for ships they just need to be in supply to get it. Otherwise this could create an exploit. I am trying to avoid gamey mechanisms.


_____________________________

Games worked on

Designer of the Strategic Command 2 products
- Brute Force (mod)
- Assault on Communism
- Assault on Democracy

Designer of the Strategic Command 3 products
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(in reply to Meteor2)
Post #: 12
RE: Comments - 8/26/2019 3:50:53 PM   
Numdydar

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: fuzzypup

Pacific Theater and a global is in the works. Making a game of that scale takes time and the game mechanics need to be flushed out in Europe first since it encompasses all aspects of the game.

To answer some questions on scale......

If you make the Pacific to scale of Europe it would be 4x the size and mostly ocean.




I hate to say it, but so what if the map is mostly ocean? Have you looked at War in the Pacific? And that game is still active after 15+ years. The map is mostly ocean in that game and people do not seem to care.

That is what I hate about SC World at War is the map scale is crap to really reflect the scale of the war. Especially given the great War in Europe scale of the game.

But I'm sure Fury thought the same as you seem to in that the scale in game needed to be reduced so to reduce the amount of ocean needed for the PTO. So if you do end up making a Pacific game, please have a unified map scale that gives the ETO the space it needs to be a good game and let the PTO have the ocean spaces it needs :)

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)
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RE: Comments - 8/26/2019 6:55:57 PM   
Meteor2


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Right. I am really a fan of SC, but the pacific in WaW is to tiny.
WitP with this large area of water is just right. And als Numdydar said, still with a activ player base after all these years.
Please, do not compress the pacific.

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Post #: 14
RE: Comments - 8/26/2019 9:13:32 PM   
AlvaroSousa


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I'll put it on the list of considerations.

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Designer of the Strategic Command 2 products
- Brute Force (mod)
- Assault on Communism
- Assault on Democracy

Designer of the Strategic Command 3 products
- Map Image Importer

(in reply to Meteor2)
Post #: 15
RE: Comments - 8/27/2019 6:09:03 AM   
juntoalmar


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I agree with them. I like the Pacific being at the same scale of Europe. Moreover, I personally like when the map is not split, but there is just one big global map (like MWiF).

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(in reply to AlvaroSousa)
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RE: Comments - 8/28/2019 8:57:39 PM   
stormbringer3

 

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This game looks like it has the possibility to be an excellent game. My hope is that the AI will continue to be worked on until tha game release. I'm one of those who only play vs. the AI so that is the most important aspect for me.

(in reply to juntoalmar)
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RE: Comments - 8/28/2019 9:55:26 PM   
Titan

 

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I agree, i hate the squeezed compressed feel to WAW....the pacific needs to have that feel of vastness

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)
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RE: Comments - 9/5/2019 12:59:28 AM   
scout1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Titan

I agree, i hate the squeezed compressed feel to WAW....the pacific needs to have that feel of vastness


I agree …. WaW should not sacrifice one theatre scale for another ,,,, The PTO was huge and should stay so ...

(in reply to Titan)
Post #: 19
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