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RE: Editor Questions - 10/24/2019 2:09:55 PM   
DD696

 

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Thanks. That's what I figured and feared. I hoped that since events are tied to unit name there may be a magic button that would have the editor recalculate slot numbers - just seems like an easy thing to do, but we must blunder on thru the dark ages.

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Post #: 31
RE: Editor Questions - 10/24/2019 4:37:13 PM   
Zovs


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It’s not as dark as it seems, but the code base is over 20 years old from what I understand.

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Post #: 32
RE: Editor Questions - 10/24/2019 10:32:43 PM   
Lobster


Posts: 3949
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From: Third rock from the Sun.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DD696

Thanks. That's what I figured and feared. I hoped that since events are tied to unit name there may be a magic button that would have the editor recalculate slot numbers - just seems like an easy thing to do, but we must blunder on thru the dark ages.


Like Zovs said, it's a 20 year old game. All you can do is attempt to modify 20 year old code to do things it was never designed to do. And actually there never was a computing dark ages. Not yet anyway.

The English (DD 696) was decommissioned by Taiwan the year after TOAW came out. Some old things that have served us well tend to not be honored. Both people and things.

< Message edited by Lobster -- 10/25/2019 3:30:13 AM >


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Post #: 33
RE: Editor Questions - 10/25/2019 2:41:44 AM   
Simon Edmonds

 

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For a game using 20 year old code to be one of the top two games in its genre; that's not a bad achievement. Imagine what it will be like when they get around to updating the code. Scary Good! What language do you think they will use?

(in reply to DD696)
Post #: 34
RE: Editor Questions - 10/25/2019 11:56:07 AM   
DD696

 

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I know the history of the USS English well. My father served on her during WWII.

I also know that I was learning and programming using SPS and Fortran back in 1965 and went on to a career in computer work, so this old thing may have a bit of knowledge regarding computer programming.

Thank you for enlightening me.

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Post #: 35
RE: Editor Questions - 10/25/2019 12:45:06 PM   
DD696

 

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Some old things keep going and going. Some people think they are better than what is new.




Attachment (1)

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We don't take kindly to idjits.

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Post #: 36
RE: Editor Questions - 10/25/2019 3:13:33 PM   
Zovs


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Those are very nice vettes! I love the last one she looks great.

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Post #: 37
RE: Editor Questions - 10/25/2019 3:59:06 PM   
Lobster


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Not a real good look at the last one but it looks a lot like my old 64 roadster. Road pipes are exactly the same but I can't tell if the wheel wells are radiused and flared. It was forest green. Had lots of fun in that thing. I picked it up for only $800 in 1971. The engine was blown. As a temporary measure I put in a 307 with a two barrel carb. I could still beat those piece of junk factory Mopar 340 six packs with that sad setup.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DD696






_____________________________

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"There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

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Post #: 38
RE: Editor Questions - 10/25/2019 8:37:38 PM   
DD696

 

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Yes, they are very nice. Not shown in that picture is a red 1964 coupe, an '86, a 2006 and a 2009 Z06 bought new. The 1960 I bought back in '78, so she and I have been having major fun for 41 years. The '67 is stock, except that the 327 has had a horsepower boost in it's internals. No flares and such crap to the body. They were ready for a local parade. I seem to have no shortage of people wanting to drive one.

Corvettes and war gaming - and retiring young - has made for a good life.

_____________________________

USMC: 1970-1977. A United States Marine.
We don't take kindly to idjits.

(in reply to Lobster)
Post #: 39
RE: Editor Questions - 10/25/2019 11:35:18 PM   
Lobster


Posts: 3949
Joined: 8/8/2013
From: Third rock from the Sun.
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: DD696

No flares and such crap to the body.



For $800 I was not going to pass it up even with that 'crap'.

_____________________________

http://www.operationbarbarossa.net/

"There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

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Post #: 40
RE: Editor Questions - 11/2/2019 9:47:59 PM   
DD696

 

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Still struggling with the editor. It would seem to be a simple thing to move around some divisions (d21) into different locations and be able to give them the correct (according to me) formation name within the correct formation (according to me). Moving to the 18h Army some three divisions and attempting to give them correct formation names appears to be beyond the capabilities of the editor, or maybe it is this dumb marine trying to use it. Perhaps it is only workable with building new scenarios and that modifying existing scenarios it is a living hell. I would rather undertake major work on one of my cars than try a relatively simple modification to an existing scenario.

This game could really be an A game, but the lack of a decent editor makes the game unplayable to those who spend as much time, or more, tinkering with scenarios than playing them, as I do. I've bought this game 3 times, and 3 times I have been very disappointed. Just a mess of crapola trying to modify scenarios bringing the OOB into some resemblance of historical accuracy (according to me).

I love the work done to publish scenarios, but modifying one is just pure hell. I waste more time trying to tinker than I do just by playing and trying to enjoy the game.

So, am I as dumb as I seem to me to be, or not?

_____________________________

USMC: 1970-1977. A United States Marine.
We don't take kindly to idjits.

(in reply to Lobster)
Post #: 41
RE: Editor Questions - 11/2/2019 10:55:55 PM   
76mm


Posts: 4156
Joined: 5/2/2004
From: Washington, DC
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: DD696
Still struggling with the editor.
***
This game could really be an A game, but the lack of a decent editor makes the game unplayable to those who spend as much time, or more, tinkering with scenarios than playing them, as I do. I've bought this game 3 times, and 3 times I have been very disappointed.
***
I love the work done to publish scenarios, but modifying one is just pure hell. I waste more time trying to tinker than I do just by playing and trying to enjoy the game.


I hear ya. I hate the editor so much that I programmed a semi-replacement for it:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4547880

It's not perfect, and be sure to save early and often in case of errors, but I think it basically works pretty well. If you encounter problems, please let me know, I am still working on this.


(in reply to DD696)
Post #: 42
RE: Editor Questions - 11/2/2019 11:59:05 PM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9184
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline
I gave you the instructional video in post #7, didn't that help? For proof of it being possible, compare the D21 OOB to this one [they were the same scenario]:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4693778

Yes that project took over a year, and some things are broke and have been for years, but every six to twelve years a patch comes out that corrects a few things [usually while breaking a few others], so I can agree with your disappointment. It seems that finding an Operational 'A' game is impossible at this stage of our lives. All we have are a few scattered developers working on separate semi-finished projects in their spare time because, as Avalon Hill stated in the 1990's, to build a board game on a computer is too complicated. The computers will always be for simple games, while the more complex stuff will remain the realm of board games.

(in reply to DD696)
Post #: 43
RE: Editor Questions - 11/3/2019 12:43:32 AM   
Curtis Lemay


Posts: 12276
Joined: 9/17/2004
From: Houston, TX
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: DD696

Still struggling with the editor. It would seem to be a simple thing to move around some divisions (d21) into different locations and be able to give them the correct (according to me) formation name within the correct formation (according to me). Moving to the 18h Army some three divisions and attempting to give them correct formation names appears to be beyond the capabilities of the editor, or maybe it is this dumb marine trying to use it. Perhaps it is only workable with building new scenarios and that modifying existing scenarios it is a living hell. I would rather undertake major work on one of my cars than try a relatively simple modification to an existing scenario.

This game could really be an A game, but the lack of a decent editor makes the game unplayable to those who spend as much time, or more, tinkering with scenarios than playing them, as I do. I've bought this game 3 times, and 3 times I have been very disappointed. Just a mess of crapola trying to modify scenarios bringing the OOB into some resemblance of historical accuracy (according to me).

I love the work done to publish scenarios, but modifying one is just pure hell. I waste more time trying to tinker than I do just by playing and trying to enjoy the game.

So, am I as dumb as I seem to me to be, or not?

Maybe if you ask a specific question, instead of filing a non-specific lament, someone might be able to help you.

_____________________________

My TOAW web site:

Bob Cross's TOAW Site

(in reply to DD696)
Post #: 44
RE: Editor Questions - 11/10/2019 2:44:22 AM   
Raindem

 

Posts: 633
Joined: 7/15/2000
From: Arizona
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DD696

Still struggling with the editor. It would seem to be a simple thing to move around some divisions (d21) into different locations and be able to give them the correct (according to me) formation name within the correct formation (according to me). Moving to the 18h Army some three divisions and attempting to give them correct formation names appears to be beyond the capabilities of the editor, or maybe it is this dumb marine trying to use it. Perhaps it is only workable with building new scenarios and that modifying existing scenarios it is a living hell. I would rather undertake major work on one of my cars than try a relatively simple modification to an existing scenario.

This game could really be an A game, but the lack of a decent editor makes the game unplayable to those who spend as much time, or more, tinkering with scenarios than playing them, as I do. I've bought this game 3 times, and 3 times I have been very disappointed. Just a mess of crapola trying to modify scenarios bringing the OOB into some resemblance of historical accuracy (according to me).

I love the work done to publish scenarios, but modifying one is just pure hell. I waste more time trying to tinker than I do just by playing and trying to enjoy the game.

So, am I as dumb as I seem to me to be, or not?


No, you're not. But I think you're biting off too much to chew by trying to edit a scenario like D21 as your first attempt at using the scenario editor. It can be tricky, even for experienced scenario designers. Adding to the problem is the fact that you're trying to change someone else's design. Even if you get the mechanics of the edit correct, you don't know what unforeseen issues the changes might create.

I suggest you first practice on smaller scenarios, or better yet just create a couple small practice scenarios. Get a feel for how the force and deployment editors work. We won't even talk about the event editor right now. That's an advanced topic. Once you have those techniques down,take another shot at what you want to change in D21. Everything you want to do is within the capabilities of the editor. But it's not intuitive, so you're going to have to tackle that learning curve first.

Hope that helps.

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Grab them by the balls. Their hearts and minds will follow.

(in reply to DD696)
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