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Editor Questions - 8/13/2019 12:40:00 PM   
DD696

 

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I am mucking around with the editor modifying the D21 scenario and have run into 2 problems.

1. I added some units and deployed them. Saved in documents under another name. When I go back and try to edit again either in the force editor or replacements I get the error message: Can't deploy. The order of battle is not fully defined. What could I have screwed up?

2. Starting the scenario to play it only gives me hotseat and pbem options. I lost the soviets as the PO player. How do I repair this?

_____________________________

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Post #: 1
RE: Editor Questions - 8/13/2019 1:04:06 PM   
larryfulkerson


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First of all thanks for your service. Way to go dude. Second....can you zip
up your file and post it here so I can download it and take a look see?

I kind of sorta know my way around the editor and I'd love to have a look at it for
you. Fresh pair of eyes......


< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 8/13/2019 1:05:14 PM >


_____________________________

If we ever do become a space faring species and are able to visit other worlds, let's just make patterns in their crops and leave.

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Post #: 2
RE: Editor Questions - 8/13/2019 1:10:39 PM   
DD696

 

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Thank you also, air force fellow!.

Here it is, provided I did it correctly. I just changed the extension to zip.

Attachment (1)

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USMC: 1970-1977. A United States Marine.
We don't take kindly to idjits.

(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 3
RE: Editor Questions - 8/13/2019 1:21:27 PM   
DD696

 

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I changed only axis forces. Added some units at the end of the OOB. Changed replacements a bit, and changed some event data.

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We don't take kindly to idjits.

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Post #: 4
RE: Editor Questions - 8/13/2019 1:23:54 PM   
Raindem

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DD696

I am mucking around with the editor modifying the D21 scenario and have run into 2 problems.

1. I added some units and deployed them. Saved in documents under another name. When I go back and try to edit again either in the force editor or replacements I get the error message: Can't deploy. The order of battle is not fully defined. What could I have screwed up?


Make sure the new units you added are assigned to a formation and that they all have at least 1 piece of equipment in them.

quote:

2. Starting the scenario to play it only gives me hotseat and pbem options. I lost the soviets as the PO player. How do I repair this?


Sounds like one of the new formations doesn't have an objective assigned.


_____________________________

Grab them by the balls. Their hearts and minds will follow.

(in reply to DD696)
Post #: 5
RE: Editor Questions - 8/13/2019 1:30:28 PM   
DD696

 

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Thanks for replying.

All units have equipment. I copied and renamed. All were assigned as new formations and then renamed appropriately I believe.

None of the units added have objectives as they are axis units to be moved by myself against the PO.

_____________________________

USMC: 1970-1977. A United States Marine.
We don't take kindly to idjits.

(in reply to Raindem)
Post #: 6
RE: Editor Questions - 8/13/2019 3:04:46 PM   
sPzAbt653


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I'd like to know which units were added, if you don't mind sharing.

By way of compensation, I can offer you this:

TOAW Tutorial - Creating new units and formations
For The Operational Art of War v3.4.1.9
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGn4rK_TCQ8
Creating Units and placing them on the map.
Creating Formations.

(in reply to DD696)
Post #: 7
RE: Editor Questions - 8/13/2019 3:11:17 PM   
sPzAbt653


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I should have mentioned that although that video was created with TOAW III, everything still applies, except some of the the Formation stuff, which is currently broken as far as - you cannot move formations around inside the oob nor create new formations within the oob without knowing a precise way to do it. I think adding formations at the end of the oob is ok to do.

(in reply to sPzAbt653)
Post #: 8
RE: Editor Questions - 8/13/2019 3:55:56 PM   
DD696

 

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Hi,

Nothing historical. I added 8-9 infantry division, 3 pionier units, 4 supply support units and 3 heavy panzer battalions. All exist only in my mind and the modded scenario. I play a bit conservatively so I wanted to give myself a bit more punch. All added at the end of the existing OOB. I wish units could be inserted into army/corps groups as I would like to organize many of the loose divisions and give them a corps structure, etc.

I will take a look at the video and see what I can learn. I have to say that editor is quite the challenge. Hit the wrong key and many hours of work disappears in an instant with a crash.

Edit: Like to explore ideas such as no Tiger II designed and built with more resources going to Tiger I and Panther.

< Message edited by DD696 -- 8/13/2019 3:58:22 PM >


_____________________________

USMC: 1970-1977. A United States Marine.
We don't take kindly to idjits.

(in reply to sPzAbt653)
Post #: 9
RE: Editor Questions - 8/13/2019 5:09:35 PM   
sPzAbt653


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Nothing historical, ok! But there were some units left out of earlier versions, and it seems that more information comes available all the time, so always good to keep eyes open.

The video should tell you everything you need. On organizations, scenarios are different and have various reasons for the way the units are organized. In D21 it was done to try and be convenient for the Aixs player, for example all Pz Abt's are in separate formations so they are easy to find.

Moving units around withing formations is easy enough, but moving formation [as mentioned] is not. The version I am currently working on is for an Axis PO, so the entire Axis oob had to be gone over in order to make things easier for Elmer. For example, all Pz Abt's are in separate formations is NOT good for Elmer because then he bunches them all together with the same objective in mind!

Others have asked for a Korps or Army organization, I understand but I haven't done it because none of those organizations stayed constant for long at all. I personally don't want to play with one organization for the entire war, and for maximum PO efficiency the smaller the formations the better. Additionally, there is also the D41 scenario and plans for others [D31 is partially done] so that would require a lot more work for what I think is little reward.

However, as you are finding out, a great thing about TOAW is if you don't like it, you can change it [and hopefully without creating any issue!].

(in reply to DD696)
Post #: 10
RE: Editor Questions - 8/13/2019 5:13:07 PM   
sPzAbt653


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quote:

Like to explore ideas such as no Tiger II

I used to be a strict historian and anything but would rub me the wrong way. However, more recently I have come to understand peoples desire for options and variety, and to me if they are 'optional', then why not?

Feel free to share your outlines, I might steal them [with permission, of course!].

(in reply to DD696)
Post #: 11
RE: Editor Questions - 8/13/2019 5:17:59 PM   
larryfulkerson


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Sorry Larry dude, but I downloaded your file and after I unzipped it it had no file extension so I renamed it as an SCE file and
TOAW refused to load it. Something about a different version created it and it's a no go for this version. I think I might need
a different file to continue the investigation.

_____________________________

If we ever do become a space faring species and are able to visit other worlds, let's just make patterns in their crops and leave.

(in reply to sPzAbt653)
Post #: 12
RE: Editor Questions - 8/13/2019 5:23:22 PM   
DD696

 

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Going to start over editing a fresh 4.61. I seem to remember that you told someone you had a newer version. If so, care to share?

I'm an old fart and have played out the Russian campaign since SPI's War in the East. With that in mind, I do like to explore alternatives and not to be so strictly bound by trying to recreate what happened. Of course, once a game starts all "history" changes. I like to think about what could have occurred had alternatives been chosen.

_____________________________

USMC: 1970-1977. A United States Marine.
We don't take kindly to idjits.

(in reply to sPzAbt653)
Post #: 13
RE: Editor Questions - 8/13/2019 5:26:05 PM   
larryfulkerson


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quote:

Going to start over editing a fresh 4.61. I seem to remember that you told someone you had a newer version. If so, care to share?

There's a newer version of D21 than 4.61? I'd like to have a copy of that bad boy too. In fact Steve dude, why not post that bad boy on the new scenarios thread?

_____________________________

If we ever do become a space faring species and are able to visit other worlds, let's just make patterns in their crops and leave.

(in reply to DD696)
Post #: 14
RE: Editor Questions - 8/13/2019 5:27:00 PM   
DD696

 

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Larry,

I did not zip it. I simply renamed the extension from sce to zip.

_____________________________

USMC: 1970-1977. A United States Marine.
We don't take kindly to idjits.

(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 15
RE: Editor Questions - 8/13/2019 5:28:02 PM   
Curtis Lemay


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DD696

None of the units added have objectives as they are axis units to be moved by myself against the PO.


Units don't have objectives. Formations have objectives. And, as Curt said in his post, all formations must have at least one objective assigned for the force to be valid.

In the Editor, under the "View" pull-down, select "Properties". This will list what critical tasks have to be completed before the scenario is valid.

_____________________________

My TOAW web site:

Bob Cross's TOAW Site

(in reply to DD696)
Post #: 16
RE: Editor Questions - 8/13/2019 5:28:09 PM   
larryfulkerson


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From: Tucson, AZ
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DD696

Larry,

I did not zip it. I simply renamed the extension from sce to zip.

Ah so.....lemme try it again.

_____________________________

If we ever do become a space faring species and are able to visit other worlds, let's just make patterns in their crops and leave.

(in reply to DD696)
Post #: 17
RE: Editor Questions - 8/13/2019 5:32:16 PM   
DD696

 

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Thanks. I'll give that a try. This novice TOAW editor user is spinning lots of wheels trying to get this done.

_____________________________

USMC: 1970-1977. A United States Marine.
We don't take kindly to idjits.

(in reply to Curtis Lemay)
Post #: 18
RE: Editor Questions - 8/13/2019 5:33:12 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 38984
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From: Tucson, AZ
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Chosing "Properties" from the menu gives this dialog. All these things will render
the scenario unfinished.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

If we ever do become a space faring species and are able to visit other worlds, let's just make patterns in their crops and leave.

(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 19
RE: Editor Questions - 8/13/2019 5:59:14 PM   
DD696

 

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Just found that. I didn't meddle with the soviets but going thru them found several air units unassigned so I assigned them and now have access to the deployment screen.

All is now good and now I can set PO tracks for added formations.

Many thanks to all. Hopefully, I will remember this all next time!!!

_____________________________

USMC: 1970-1977. A United States Marine.
We don't take kindly to idjits.

(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 20
RE: Editor Questions - 8/13/2019 6:25:03 PM   
Zovs


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

I should have mentioned that although that video was created with TOAW III, everything still applies, except some of the the Formation stuff, which is currently broken as far as - you cannot move formations around inside the oob nor create new formations within the oob without knowing a precise way to do it. I think adding formations at the end of the oob is ok to do.


Yes you can move formations around.

Click "Edit" and then "Forces"

On the Available Systems side, click on the third button (fourth from last):


Left click on a unit in the formation you want to cut/copy (I generally select the first unit in the formation):


Click cut (or copy) current formation:


Scroll where you want to insert the copied/cut formation (again I usually do this on the starting unit)


Click "Edit" and then "Paste Formation"


Now you see the results of the pasted (moved) formation:


Your all done. Easy peasy...




_____________________________


War in the East/War in the East II - Alpha Test Teams
WarPlan Beta Tester
DG CWIE2 tester/SPWW2 and SPMBT playtester/scenario & campaign creator

(in reply to sPzAbt653)
Post #: 21
RE: Editor Questions - 8/13/2019 8:52:39 PM   
sPzAbt653


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From: east coast, usa
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quote:

In fact Steve dude, why not post that bad boy on the new scenarios thread?

It's being tested

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Post #: 22
RE: Editor Questions - 8/13/2019 8:56:24 PM   
Zovs


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Steve maybe we should add my post above to the TOAW IV manual showing how you can move formations around in the editor.

_____________________________


War in the East/War in the East II - Alpha Test Teams
WarPlan Beta Tester
DG CWIE2 tester/SPWW2 and SPMBT playtester/scenario & campaign creator

(in reply to sPzAbt653)
Post #: 23
RE: Editor Questions - 8/13/2019 8:56:24 PM   
sPzAbt653


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quote:

Your all done. Easy peasy...

Don, I'm pretty sure that didn't work, but I really didn't want to get into all the steps involved. What I mean is, it may look like it worked, but actually it just messed up the whole oob, and I just wanted to point it out so that folks don't see it here and think they can do it that way, because if they do and they save it without a backup, they are screwed

(in reply to Zovs)
Post #: 24
RE: Editor Questions - 8/13/2019 9:03:39 PM   
Zovs


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How so (I mean it looks like it worked to me) I also did this in other scenarios (I know it also did it back in COW)?

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War in the East/War in the East II - Alpha Test Teams
WarPlan Beta Tester
DG CWIE2 tester/SPWW2 and SPMBT playtester/scenario & campaign creator

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Post #: 25
RE: Editor Questions - 8/13/2019 9:11:18 PM   
Lobster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zovs

How so (I mean it looks like it worked to me) I also did this in other scenarios (I know it also did it back in COW)?


Well actually...

I just tried it and it did work. Never used to.

< Message edited by Lobster -- 8/13/2019 9:12:06 PM >


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Post #: 26
RE: Editor Questions - 8/13/2019 9:57:25 PM   
Zovs


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I know for IV and version .21 it has been working right along. I think the only 'bad' thing that happens is that the units may get sent to un-deployed status and you'll have to redeploy them.

Cutting and pasting units works as well.


_____________________________


War in the East/War in the East II - Alpha Test Teams
WarPlan Beta Tester
DG CWIE2 tester/SPWW2 and SPMBT playtester/scenario & campaign creator

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Post #: 27
RE: Editor Questions - 8/13/2019 10:17:08 PM   
Lobster


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It has always worked for units. Formations were the problem. Maybe a stuck cog managed to unstick.

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"There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

(in reply to Zovs)
Post #: 28
RE: Editor Questions - 10/23/2019 3:31:07 PM   
DD696

 

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Another editor question:

When editing an existing scenario to insert new units into the OOB, will I have a conflict with events? Take D21 for example. I add a new unit and do what is required to use it in the game. However, does this interfere with the event process for those units that are slated to disband/withdraw? When I have done so, it seems that the wrong units are subsequently withdrawn being offset by the new unit/units added.

When coding the event disband, the name of the unit is designated. It appears to be programmed so that the unit slot number is then referenced during game play for the required withdrawal, and when the time for the withdrawal to occur the unit that is in that slot is withdrawn rather than doing the withdrawal by the name of the unit.

Example: 3 units in an OOB, a, b, and c. I insert unit aa between a and b. Unit c was been set up initially for a disband event, but with the OOB change unit b is now withdrawn as it is now the 3rd unit in the OOB.

Is this how it works or am I mistaken?

_____________________________

USMC: 1970-1977. A United States Marine.
We don't take kindly to idjits.

(in reply to Lobster)
Post #: 29
RE: Editor Questions - 10/24/2019 1:12:16 PM   
Zovs


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General observation suggestion. If your add new units to an existing scenario unless you know exactly what your doing then only add those new units to the end of the list of the original OOB for either side.

During creation of my scenarios after I set some editor properties referencing existing units in a formation but when I added in new units in the middle/top or whatever it screwed up the event editor and I had to redo the units that were tied to those events. PITA. So put them at the end of the OOB otherwise you'll have a big mess to clean up.

_____________________________


War in the East/War in the East II - Alpha Test Teams
WarPlan Beta Tester
DG CWIE2 tester/SPWW2 and SPMBT playtester/scenario & campaign creator

(in reply to DD696)
Post #: 30
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