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IJFB's someone have a spreadsheet.. - 8/12/2019 11:36:35 AM   
Hanzberger


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ON the merchant shipping? Like what classes are good, conversion and what to keep etc...

_____________________________

Planning for #17 Ironman Tier2

Japan AC wire chart here
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2769286&mpage=1&key=?
Post #: 1
RE: IJFB's someone have a spreadsheet.. - 8/12/2019 12:33:34 PM   
Falken


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Hi,

I know that it's not a spreadsheet, but one of the areas I always look at when i need to remember what does what, is to look at Jorge_Stanbury's amazing AAR "DBB 28C. Co-prosperity sphere of happiness: Jorge (J) vs Revthought (A)" where Jorge goes through a detail analysis of what each type of ship is good for, and what he recommends for conversion. It's all on Page 1 of the AAR.

Every time I start a new game, outside of Mike Solli's AAR, this is the other one that I recheck.

You should find both in the AAR section of the forum.


(in reply to Hanzberger)
Post #: 2
RE: IJFB's someone have a spreadsheet.. - 8/12/2019 12:44:24 PM   
jdsrae


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From: The Land Downunder
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There are two main options:
1. keep the fast modern xAK as xAK for hauling stuff or
2. Convert the better xAK to IJN auxiliaries (AV, AR, AS, AKE etc) and use less capable ships for hauling resources.
I go for option 2, with lots of AV ships to support a large Jake expansion. Plenty of AD and AG to rearm SC in small ports.
I’ll post a few more details tomorrow.

_____________________________

Currently playing my first PBEM, no house rules Scenario 1 as IJ.
AAR link (no CrackSabbath): https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4684655

(in reply to Falken)
Post #: 3
RE: IJFB's someone have a spreadsheet.. - 8/12/2019 12:44:46 PM   
Trugrit


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Try this guide. It helped me.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2933397


(in reply to Hanzberger)
Post #: 4
RE: IJFB's someone have a spreadsheet.. - 8/12/2019 4:59:55 PM   
Hanzberger


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From: SE Pennsylvania
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Falken

Hi,

I know that it's not a spreadsheet, but one of the areas I always look at when i need to remember what does what, is to look at Jorge_Stanbury's amazing AAR "DBB 28C. Co-prosperity sphere of happiness: Jorge (J) vs Revthought (A)" where Jorge goes through a detail analysis of what each type of ship is good for, and what he recommends for conversion. It's all on Page 1 of the AAR.

Every time I start a new game, outside of Mike Solli's AAR, this is the other one that I recheck.

You should find both in the AAR section of the forum.



I will look into this thanks for the tip~!


quote:

ORIGINAL: jdsrae

There are two main options:
1. keep the fast modern xAK as xAK for hauling stuff or
2. Convert the better xAK to IJN auxiliaries (AV, AR, AS, AKE etc) and use less capable ships for hauling resources.
I go for option 2, with lots of AV ships to support a large Jake expansion. Plenty of AD and AG to rearm SC in small ports.
I’ll post a few more details tomorrow.


Once my brain unlocks this may come back to me, I usually do the same but if I remember, some ships are better 'converts' then others.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Trugrit


Try this guide. It helped me.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2933397



I do have this guide and will review it again. I think Mike or someone had a guide for dummies, like me, or better said had it already worked out rather well for efficiency.




_____________________________

Planning for #17 Ironman Tier2

Japan AC wire chart here
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2769286&mpage=1&key=?

(in reply to Falken)
Post #: 5
RE: IJFB's someone have a spreadsheet.. - 8/12/2019 7:31:44 PM   
rustysi


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Also check in here, as I recall in one of these items mentioned here there's a thread that has a list of where to move how many ships to certain locations to get things hauled to the HI. As for myself I've got a hard copy somewhere, but I have to look as its been 2.5 years since I started my current AI game.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=2260137

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to Hanzberger)
Post #: 6
RE: IJFB's someone have a spreadsheet.. - 8/12/2019 7:39:26 PM   
rustysi


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quote:

2. Convert the better xAK to IJN auxiliaries (AV, AR, AS, AKE etc) and use less capable ships for hauling resources.


Not a bad suggestion, but IMHO there're enough of these to cover most of both functions. I too convert a bunch of these more capably vessels, but use the rest for the more distant and 'higher profile' 'trade routes'. I still need the 'less capable' ships to run the excess which accumulates occasionally, and for the shorter routes.

Oh, and one other thing, try to haul both ways when transporting. Reinforcements and supply one way, resources the other.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 7
RE: IJFB's someone have a spreadsheet.. - 8/12/2019 8:39:36 PM   
jdsrae


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Here’s my starting merchant and convoy plan in my current game as japan be AI for info:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4597303

I’m trying to play as if I’m up against a human. It’s now mid-July 42 and I’ve made a few adjustments to Plan A based on how actual movement rates turned out vs my forecasts.

Plan B now has:
CL Katori class are amphibious TF flagships with APD, DMS escorts and AK-t conversions. I don’t convert any extra APD as those ships upgrade to DD with decent depth charges and radar in time.
CVE are not used for ASW but are in a single amphib close air cover TF escorted by older DD

xAK roles by class
• Yusen S Cargo. 10 in class. All remain AK in SNLF, modified all to AK-t in Jun/Jul 42
• Yusen A Cargo. 7 in class, all to AK-t in SNLF after amphibious bonus expires
• Yusen N Cargo. 57 in class, all to AK-t in SNLF after amphibious bonus expires
• Kyushu Cargo. All 32 to AV and assigned to Area Fleets.
• Husimi Cargo. 7 to AR, 6 to AS, 12 to AV and assigned to Area Fleets
• Ansyu C. All 58 to PB
• Daigen. All 68 to AG for use as ASW Division tenders. The 20 spares were doing nothing anyway so are now excess
• Lima Cargo. All remain xAK to resource convoys from Fusan. Now that the resources stockpile in CMK has been moved I have a fair few spare so I will convert 4-6 to AKE as they can rearm Yamato class
• Toho Cargo. All remain xAK, in reserve used for the odd supply out/resources back manual convoy
• Aden Cargo. All remain xAK to resource convoys mostly Hokkaido and Port Arthur. Once the stockpiles moved I have some of these spare too so will use the excess to replace the Toho on the odd supply run
• Akasi Cargo. 24 to AKE with < Nagato/Yamato rearm capability, only smaller BB and below. AKE assigned in 4 x 6 ship divisions, the other 24 are hauling resources from Sakhalin. I might replace them with Aden’s now
• Ehime Cargo. All 50 something converted to AD as they were sitting in port rusting anyway
• Gozan Cargo. No conversions from xAK. All in reserve in forward ports to be used for local supply runs, but not actually being used
• Std-A Cargo. Build only the 1943/43 ships and convert all to TK as they are required to help move the Singapore oil/fuel stockpiles and replace a few medium TK lost to subs
• Std-B Cargo. Build all as they are limited to 1942/43. Will now convert all to TK as my fuel and oil stockpiles in Singapore are still increasing and I need to get it back to Japan
• Std-C Cargo. Build only the 1942/43 ships and convert to TK for use in forward areas to free up the bigger TK for the Singapore-Japan Route. No need to build any for xAK role.
• Std-D/E/F Cargo. Do not build.

xAKL roles by class
• Kiso-E Cargo. 37 to ACM, remaining 32 to PB
• To’su Cargo. 35 to PB, 3 to AMc.
• Miyati Cargo. 60 in class, all to reserve initially. All will convert to AGP tenders starting 12/43 as motor launch/gun/torpedo boats start arriving. There will be 37 motor launch/gun/torpedo boat Divisions.
• Kasu-D Cargo. 46 in class, 1 allocated to Sadogashima resource convoy. All others in reserve.

< Message edited by jdsrae -- 8/12/2019 9:02:59 PM >


_____________________________

Currently playing my first PBEM, no house rules Scenario 1 as IJ.
AAR link (no CrackSabbath): https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4684655

(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 8
RE: IJFB's someone have a spreadsheet.. - 8/12/2019 9:30:46 PM   
rustysi


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From: LI, NY
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OK, didn't go through everything line for line, but here are a few that I noticed.

quote:

Toho Cargo. All remain xAK, in reserve used for the odd supply out/resources back manual convoy


These are rather slow, but with a very good load capacity, and relatively low weight. I use almost all of these (some 40-45 vessels) between Hokkaido and Honshu on the NRA run.

quote:

Aden Cargo. All remain xAK to resource convoys mostly Hokkaido and Port Arthur. Once the stockpiles moved I have some of these spare too so will use the excess to replace the Toho on the odd supply run


The largest single class of cargo ship in the empire. I use these as a jack-of-all-trades for Japan. They pick up the slack all through the empire. I even often use them as troop ships from the HI to my central bases (read Truk and Singers for example).

quote:

so I will convert 4-6 to AKE as they can rearm Yamato class


Technically no Japanese AKE could rearm the Yamato's, originally. For what ever reason, intended or not, it slipped into the game in one of the updates. I personally believe it to be unintended as I don't recall seeing it in any of the notes. I was going to post it in the Tech portion of the forum, but support ended.


< Message edited by rustysi -- 8/12/2019 9:31:10 PM >


_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to jdsrae)
Post #: 9
RE: IJFB's someone have a spreadsheet.. - 8/13/2019 12:02:21 AM   
Hanzberger


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Wow lots of great info. Thank you so much~! jdsrae it's funny back in the day I had some scribble on paper, but your chart is awesome~!
rustysi Hey thanks for that link, I forgot about that one. Lots to brush up on....I thought this game was supposed to be fun, j/k it is.
I plotted my airframes and engines then ran the first turn without moving anything else...impatient to start...now in the game what a mess. I think I will let things run it's course and make corrections as I go.
The last time I played this game it took weeks to setup the first turn. Playing against the AI, so no biggie. Someday I would love to pbem, again back in the day I had one but the player quit right away.
It's hard to find that kind of time to keep such a massive game going with turns every week, if not every day.

_____________________________

Planning for #17 Ironman Tier2

Japan AC wire chart here
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2769286&mpage=1&key=?

(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 10
RE: IJFB's someone have a spreadsheet.. - 8/13/2019 12:57:54 AM   
RangerJoe


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Actually, if you make the To'su CMc, they will get free mines. Lay the mines. Then convert them to something else then right back to CMc and, it takes awhile, but you get more free mines.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Hanzberger)
Post #: 11
RE: IJFB's someone have a spreadsheet.. - 8/13/2019 1:01:14 AM   
jdsrae


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hanzberger

Wow lots of great info. Thank you so much~! jdsrae it's funny back in the day I had some scribble on paper, but your chart is awesome~!
rustysi Hey thanks for that link, I forgot about that one. Lots to brush up on....I thought this game was supposed to be fun, j/k it is.
I plotted my airframes and engines then ran the first turn without moving anything else...impatient to start...now in the game what a mess. I think I will let things run it's course and make corrections as I go.
The last time I played this game it took weeks to setup the first turn. Playing against the AI, so no biggie. Someday I would love to pbem, again back in the day I had one but the player quit right away.
It's hard to find that kind of time to keep such a massive game going with turns every week, if not every day.


Here's my old spreadsheet comparison of possible xAK conversions to answer your original question.
From this you can choose your own adventure. Green were what I chose as the best use for each class, yellow I was considering, orange I discarded.
Entering orders is the quick part, "selection and maintenance of the aim" is the time consuming bit!

I didn't know when preparing this chart that the Lima AKE can rearm Yamato as mentioned above.
IRL Yamato did spend a bit of time based at Truk, so perhaps that was the only way to ensure it could be rearmed there in game.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by jdsrae -- 8/13/2019 1:04:58 AM >


_____________________________

Currently playing my first PBEM, no house rules Scenario 1 as IJ.
AAR link (no CrackSabbath): https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4684655

(in reply to Hanzberger)
Post #: 12
RE: IJFB's someone have a spreadsheet.. - 8/13/2019 7:09:21 PM   
rustysi


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From: LI, NY
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quote:

quote:

Toho Cargo. All remain xAK, in reserve used for the odd supply out/resources back manual convoy


These are rather slow, but with a very good load capacity, and relatively low weight. I use almost all of these (some 40-45 vessels) between Hokkaido and Honshu on the NRA run.


Messed this one up. Its the Gozan class I was referring to here, the Toho is quite another animal. In fact quite useful, as its a medium speed, medium sized merchie. I use them for various runs, to include supply, resources (along side the 8150 tankers), and troop movement after conversion to xAK-t's.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to jdsrae)
Post #: 13
RE: IJFB's someone have a spreadsheet.. - 8/13/2019 7:27:28 PM   
Dili

 

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I usually put the fast ones in long distance work and the slow ones to close distances.

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RE: IJFB's someone have a spreadsheet.. - 8/13/2019 9:28:40 PM   
jdsrae


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I find that the xAP are under utilised so don’t need to use any xAK for admin troop moves. It is only mid-42 so that might change, but as a switch to defence I won’t be using all the AK-t for amphib tasks so they can do a lot of good work in that role.
I pool all the long legged xAP in one port in Japan and send the shorties to forward areas for local admin troop moves.
After crunching the numbers on how many Resources are needed, I don’t need to use anything but Lima and Aden to move resources now I’ve cleared the starting stockpiles. I also don’t have any CS resource convoys travelling further than Formosa.
I’ve freed up some xAK Lima to be my ship for reasonably efficient supply out/resources back manual convoys to places like Burma and SE Areas that don’t generate any local supply.
The Toho is about to join the Gozan and Kasu-D in the Mothball Fleet.
I’m using the Ansyu PB for ad hoc local Fast Transport resupply in 1000 supply dribs and drabs as they are self escorting.

On a tangent, even being very sparing with supply export and other things that burn supply, I am still struggling to grow the home islands supply stockpile. Tokyo supply level is the first thing I check after each turn!

_____________________________

Currently playing my first PBEM, no house rules Scenario 1 as IJ.
AAR link (no CrackSabbath): https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4684655

(in reply to Dili)
Post #: 15
RE: IJFB's someone have a spreadsheet.. - 8/13/2019 9:58:14 PM   
Dili

 

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I use my xAP for AirHQ/FleetHQ service. So an air flotilla has always 2 xAP attached.

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RE: IJFB's someone have a spreadsheet.. - 8/14/2019 12:52:48 AM   
jdsrae


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Excellent idea Dili, especially the short legged xAP.
Thinking about rustysi using xAK-t for moving troops out of Japan, a benefit of that is they can bring some resources back for no extra fuel cost.
I don’t think xAP can bring resources back. Something to think about as an option to save fuel.

_____________________________

Currently playing my first PBEM, no house rules Scenario 1 as IJ.
AAR link (no CrackSabbath): https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4684655

(in reply to Dili)
Post #: 17
RE: IJFB's someone have a spreadsheet.. - 8/14/2019 1:33:11 AM   
RangerJoe


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APs can bring resources back. Just place a cargo vessel in with them, tell them to load resources and they will do so to the extent of their cargo holds. It does not take long to convert the xAK-t to just xAK to haul resources back either.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to jdsrae)
Post #: 18
RE: IJFB's someone have a spreadsheet.. - 8/14/2019 8:40:42 AM   
Uncivil Engineer

 

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quote:

• Yusen S Cargo. 10 in class. All remain AK in SNLF, modified all to AK-t in Jun/Jul 42
• Yusen A Cargo. 7 in class, all to AK-t in SNLF after amphibious bonus expires
• Yusen N Cargo. 57 in class, all to AK-t in SNLF after amphibious bonus expires


I'm not convinced that converting anything to -t after the Japanese unload bonus expires is a good idea. But, everything that can be converted from xAK to AK should be.

After April 42, AK unload at 600 per ship per turn (up from 250 for xAK). All of the Yusen class in AK configuration have less than 600 troop capacity, meaning they will unload in one day (one turn). Move in, unload, get out. In AK-t configuration, the troop capacity is much higher (2105 for Yusen-S), so it could take 3+ days to unload. Do you want transports sitting in one location that long? Granted, for runs from, say, Shanghai to Truk you want the highest load capacity possible, and unload time at a port not under threat is irrelevant, but couldn't the xAP fill that roll?

Just thinking out loud - I'd like to hear others' opinions on -t.

(in reply to jdsrae)
Post #: 19
RE: IJFB's someone have a spreadsheet.. - 8/14/2019 9:11:51 AM   
GetAssista

 

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I like uniformity, so my take is:
All Yusen and Kyushu -> AK/AK-t for troops transport, high speed and hitpoints are needed here the most
Toho -> xAK-t for troops transport on less risky routes
Lima -> 10-15 AKEs, in stock they can reload anything, others for long range supply/resource convoys
Husimi -> Either AR or AV
Ansuy-C -> PB
12 speed xAKLs -> island duty all over the empire, they can load/unload everywhere

Resource transports:
Aden -> from farther places like Sakhalin/Shanghai/Formosa
Akasi -> from Hokkaido
Gozan -> from Fusan
Ehime, remaining Aden, 10 speed xAKLs - reserves or AG when needed

(in reply to Uncivil Engineer)
Post #: 20
RE: IJFB's someone have a spreadsheet.. - 8/14/2019 9:19:50 AM   
jdsrae


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Good point thanks for mentioning it, I hadn’t thought of that so I’m keen to read more from others on this too.
I think I’ll still use AK-t as AK have an excessive cargo storage capacity.
I will check how many to use of each that would still drop a Division in a day, for example, by not using minimum ships in TF.
Using the AK only option, would that need more ships to drop the same Division in a day? I’ll run a few calcs later tonight.


_____________________________

Currently playing my first PBEM, no house rules Scenario 1 as IJ.
AAR link (no CrackSabbath): https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4684655

(in reply to Uncivil Engineer)
Post #: 21
RE: IJFB's someone have a spreadsheet.. - 8/14/2019 10:59:40 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 6460
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From: LI, NY
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quote:

APs can bring resources back. Just place a cargo vessel in with them,


Beat me to it.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to jdsrae)
Post #: 22
RE: IJFB's someone have a spreadsheet.. - 8/14/2019 11:00:57 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 6460
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline
Don't forget about Japan's LSD's, they are few, but will assist with unloading.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 23
RE: IJFB's someone have a spreadsheet.. - 8/15/2019 12:56:28 AM   
jdsrae


Posts: 1639
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From: The Land Downunder
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

APs can bring resources back. Just place a cargo vessel in with them,


Beat me to it.


Thanks gents, good to know.

No smoking on the next troop convoy after the resources run back from Nauru!

_____________________________

Currently playing my first PBEM, no house rules Scenario 1 as IJ.
AAR link (no CrackSabbath): https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4684655

(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 24
RE: IJFB's someone have a spreadsheet.. - 8/15/2019 1:44:43 AM   
RangerJoe


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Nauru Island had phosphate rock. Use it for fertilizer or the nice Willey Pete artillery round.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to jdsrae)
Post #: 25
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