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What needs updating in PFE ?

 
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What needs updating in PFE ? - 8/11/2019 10:02:35 AM   
Rasputitsa


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Withdrawal :

See detail in this thread, but if you select withdrawal, even if you do not actually issue the order, the unit will still withdraw.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4318064

< Message edited by Rasputitsa -- 8/11/2019 10:03:08 AM >


_____________________________

"In politics stupidity is not a handicap" - Napoleon

“A people which is able to say everything becomes able to do everything” - Napoleon

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Post #: 1
RE: What needs updating in PFE ? - 8/11/2019 10:06:47 AM   
Rasputitsa


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Supply :

The problem I had was when adding 'combat supply' to units still in the Reinforcements 'Arrivals' list, which scrambled the overall amount of supply and this may be a 'Windows 10' issue, as it hasn't happened in 'Windows 7'.

However, there is no advantage in using this feature, which was added in v1.03, as the unit arrives with the combat supply already applied, but is unable to move, so you get no advantage from early supply. You might as well wait until the unit appears on the map and apply the combat supply then, see this thread.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4248338

Similar problem with the 'combat supply' button in the 'Withdrawal' list, which seems to scramble the supply system. A better use of a 'combat supply' button in the 'Withdrawal' list would be to recover supply back to the main pools, from units about to leave the theatre.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4372024


< Message edited by Rasputitsa -- 8/11/2019 5:16:49 PM >


_____________________________

"In politics stupidity is not a handicap" - Napoleon

“A people which is able to say everything becomes able to do everything” - Napoleon

“Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress" - Napoleon

(in reply to Rasputitsa)
Post #: 2
RE: What needs updating in PFE ? - 8/11/2019 10:13:09 AM   
Rasputitsa


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More Supply :

NAPLES and TARANTO seem to be overpowered as supply sources to the Allies, as when they are at full capacity they provide 100% supply to huge areas of the map, apparently irrespective of terrain, or weather limitations, which should be more significant, see this thread.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4229535

and again :

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4247280

< Message edited by Rasputitsa -- 8/11/2019 5:18:09 PM >


_____________________________

"In politics stupidity is not a handicap" - Napoleon

“A people which is able to say everything becomes able to do everything” - Napoleon

“Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress" - Napoleon

(in reply to Rasputitsa)
Post #: 3
RE: What needs updating in PFE ? - 8/11/2019 10:30:22 AM   
Rasputitsa


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Supply Again :

The 'Supply Status' overlay creates a hole in the game FOW, as it clearly shows where enemy units are, as the blue arrows in the image show (these must be Allied units). I'm not sure if there is an answer, or even if there needs to be an answer, as you could just look at this as low level intelligence.






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Rasputitsa -- 8/11/2019 10:32:14 AM >


_____________________________

"In politics stupidity is not a handicap" - Napoleon

“A people which is able to say everything becomes able to do everything” - Napoleon

“Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress" - Napoleon

(in reply to Rasputitsa)
Post #: 4
RE: What needs updating in PFE ? - 8/11/2019 10:45:56 AM   
Rasputitsa


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Axis Air :

Axis air seems to be heavily disadvantaged in the game, such that it might as well not be there. Obviously the Allies had a huge superiority, but historically the Axis were able to conserve some of their air power throughout the campaign.

The Allies don't seem to suffer any losses in wiping out the Axis air.

There should be some protection in not flying missions and holding back some Axis aircraft for later, without having them all destroyed, whatever you do, see this thread :


http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4372030

That Axis air units get hammered is not too surprising, noting the Allied air superiority, but the Axis losses are extreme and there doesn't seem to be any loss to the Allies, unless it is hidden in FOW.

Wikipedia shows the Axis with 722 aircraft in Sept. 1943, ending with 79 aircraft in April 1945, but lost **4500+ during the Italian and Balkan campaigns, whilst the Allies lost over 8000 aircraft, indicating an very active air campaign, but these Allied losses do not seem to appear in the game.

**"Luftwaffe Aircraft Losses By Theater, September 1943-October 1944". The Air Force Historical Foundation.

In detail, 4,468 Axis operational losses are given for Italy and the Balkans, for the period of September 1943 to October 1944.

As the game is currently configured the air to air campaign is very short and conclusive with Axis air power ceasing to exist within the first few turns. The Axis averages 50% loses each combat turn, which seems a very high, especially as the Allies have such little loss.

Historically, the Axis lost 1441 aircraft during Sep-Dec 1943 for the Italian and Balkan theatres, but still had 1160 aircraft on strength for the period Jan-May 1944, losing another 2000+ during this time. So losses are significant, but the Luftwaffe was still able to contest the air war until well into 1944, there might be an issue over Axis % air losses and the balance of Axis replacement air strength.

However, simple aircraft numbers do not necessarily indicate effectiveness, but others on the forum have also queried the Axis poor air performance.



< Message edited by Rasputitsa -- 8/11/2019 5:23:08 PM >


_____________________________

"In politics stupidity is not a handicap" - Napoleon

“A people which is able to say everything becomes able to do everything” - Napoleon

“Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress" - Napoleon

(in reply to Rasputitsa)
Post #: 5
RE: What needs updating in PFE ? - 8/11/2019 10:52:26 AM   
Rasputitsa


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From: Bedfordshire UK
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Attack with no Advance :

It would be good to have the option to launch an attack and be able to select 'no advance'(spoiling/diversion attack), whereas the chance of advance into the battle hex is more random right now, see thread :

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4380133

_____________________________

"In politics stupidity is not a handicap" - Napoleon

“A people which is able to say everything becomes able to do everything” - Napoleon

“Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress" - Napoleon

(in reply to Rasputitsa)
Post #: 6
RE: What needs updating in PFE ? - 8/11/2019 10:56:31 AM   
Rasputitsa


Posts: 2690
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From: Bedfordshire UK
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Terrain Mapping :


There is a problem in the way the game screen information bar, combat reports and the manual text refer to hex terrain types. I think the map detail and the way the game handles terrain data is correct, but all game text references, combat reports, the Map Legend and manual references have 'Hilly' and 'Rough' terrain transposed (CHEMKID map legend has been corrected). See this thread for more detail :

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4275995






This hex (06,61) is actually 'hilly', which looks correct on the map, but text references call it 'rough'.

I think the game is working OK with all terrain combat effects and movement allowances being correctly applied, it's just the text headings and labels which are transposed.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Rasputitsa -- 8/13/2019 7:33:27 AM >


_____________________________

"In politics stupidity is not a handicap" - Napoleon

“A people which is able to say everything becomes able to do everything” - Napoleon

“Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress" - Napoleon

(in reply to Rasputitsa)
Post #: 7
RE: What needs updating in PFE ? - 8/11/2019 11:27:13 AM   
Rasputitsa


Posts: 2690
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From: Bedfordshire UK
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Fortifications :

The way fortification happens in the game looks more like digging in, it happens whenever a unit stops and is achieved quite quickly, so eventually you end up with a rash of 'fortifications' around the map, which don't seem to add much to the defence of the 'fortified' hexes.

The fortifications of the 'Gustav', 'Gothic', etc., lines where substantial positions and imposed a significant delay on the Allies. Perhaps there should be more coherent defence lines in the game, even if they have to be 'hard-coded', to ensure that they are actual lines, using terrain, and have a much more significant defensive value.

Maybe several 'line' options could be available and not just the historic lines, with the decision of which lines to activate left to the player, with an appropriate building delay and cost. Not sure how the AI handles this, but at least it would allow the AI to have a coherent line defence, instead of random and chance fortification hexes.

The current game routine could be retained as digging-in, which the Allies could do as well, with a deeper fortification routine taking longer to achieve and giving more defensive benefits, as befitting the construction of prepared concrete fortifications, which would take longer than a 4 day turn to have an effect.





< Message edited by Rasputitsa -- 8/11/2019 11:59:04 AM >


_____________________________

"In politics stupidity is not a handicap" - Napoleon

“A people which is able to say everything becomes able to do everything” - Napoleon

“Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress" - Napoleon

(in reply to Rasputitsa)
Post #: 8
RE: What needs updating in PFE ? - 8/11/2019 11:30:25 AM   
Rasputitsa


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From: Bedfordshire UK
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Message Archive :

The game provides information messages and combat reports, which is all very useful, but the combat reports have gone when each screen is cancelled to progress the turn. I am taking screen shots to record these combat reports info boxes, which hold a lot of information on the unit status of both sides.

Some Information messages can be viewed after each turn resolution in the 'Display Past Messages' button, but not all messages appear here and an archive would be useful to refer back to messages from earlier turns.

The excellence of these games is that they do not drown you in data and anything that shows on the screen is relevant and needs to be noted.

It would be very useful to have a message archive (button) to be able to refer back to information like combat reports, shown during the current resolution phase and also from previous turns.




< Message edited by Rasputitsa -- 8/12/2019 7:02:28 AM >


_____________________________

"In politics stupidity is not a handicap" - Napoleon

“A people which is able to say everything becomes able to do everything” - Napoleon

“Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress" - Napoleon

(in reply to Rasputitsa)
Post #: 9
RE: What needs updating in PFE ? - 8/11/2019 12:10:31 PM   
Rasputitsa


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From: Bedfordshire UK
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View Settings/Supply Status Buttons :

The View Settings and Supply Status buttons seem to have been transposed, as the oil drum symbol brings in the settings panel (see image) and the 'S' button shows the supply overlay.






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"In politics stupidity is not a handicap" - Napoleon

“A people which is able to say everything becomes able to do everything” - Napoleon

“Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress" - Napoleon

(in reply to Rasputitsa)
Post #: 10
RE: What needs updating in PFE ? - 8/11/2019 12:43:38 PM   
Rasputitsa


Posts: 2690
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From: Bedfordshire UK
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Zones of Control :

The manual states that ZOCs are important in this game and so they are, with the AI demonstrating that it is fully able to set up a defence line with very few units, by making good use of interlocking ZOCs. Unfortunately the AI can become trapped in the same web of ZOCs, by allowing itself to be encircled too easily. On many occasions the Axis AI made a good job of using well timed withdrawals, just before a major attack was to be made, but on other occasions it crowded units into hopeless positions, which were too easily cut-off. The Axis AI was placing great importance on holding ports, which is sensible, but went into over-kill, risking far too many units, to be pinned against the coast and destroyed.

Historically, the Axis found it much easier to slip away, after holding ground, and maybe there is some fix which can moderate the effects of ZOC on the Axis AI in these situations, after all, the Axis knew the ground better, as they had been in occupation for sometimes months, whilst the Allies were always, to some extent, moving into the unknown. I think what I am suggesting is moderating the effect of ZOCs when hexes are, or have been, your own territory.

It is more likely that a side can exert control over a hex that has been recently in its ownership, by demolitions, booby-traps and stay-behind units, etc., than the opposing side could exert the same control over a hex that it has never previously occupied.

Is there a case that, where units from opposing sides can exert a ZOC over the same hex, the side which had previous ownership of the hex should take priory in ZOC, or that the ZOC effects should be initially mitigated/neutralised until the new owner has been in position more that one turn and can exert full control. This is intended to give the AI a chance to escape, as I think it needs the help.

Could there be a feature where, by selecting a unit and pressing a hot-key, all the hexes where that unit exerts an active ZOC could be highlighted.

Edit :

There is a quote and I cannot remember who, but may have been Kesselring, that Axis demolitions forced such a delay on the Allied advance that Axis fighting troops did not add much more to that delay.

Game Manual : Also, I prefer that a unit has the ability to perform only one action at a time. So no leave a ZoC, move, enter a different ZoC and attack in this game.

In the game, as Allies, the ZOC do impose a significant delay factor, which is correct, but it is also adversely affects the Axis AI which may be too much, getting trapped in ZOC. The AI needs a helping hand, maybe a get-out-of-jail-free card in certain circumstances, with a delay (one turn) in the Allies being able to establish ZOC in newly won ex-Axis territory.

Some mitigation of the above Manual reference, so that the Axis AI does not get trapped so easily.

Obviously the Allies are not in the business of blowing up territory they are trying to liberate, so this only applies to the Axis.

It would be useful to be able to see ZOC ownership (hot key) and the Axis should initially have priority where ZOC might be contested, but to emphasis, this is only a short term advantage to the Axis, in the initial turn of transfer of hex ownership, after that, business as usual.








< Message edited by Rasputitsa -- 8/13/2019 7:37:27 AM >


_____________________________

"In politics stupidity is not a handicap" - Napoleon

“A people which is able to say everything becomes able to do everything” - Napoleon

“Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress" - Napoleon

(in reply to Rasputitsa)
Post #: 11
RE: What needs updating in PFE ? - 8/11/2019 1:05:01 PM   
Rasputitsa


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Allied Beach-heads :

The Allied AI is not good at protecting its amphibious beach-heads and when the beach-head is lost, game over.

Effect of Naval Gunfire

After Dieppe 1942 no significant Allied beach-head was lost to enemy action. At 'Omaha', Normandy 1944 and Salerno 1943, the Allied commanders considered abandoning the beach-heads, but that did not happen and naval gunfire was decisive. Naval fire support can reach all parts of a PFE hex (7.5 miles across) and break up concentrations of enemy forces, meaning that landing forces can be pinned into the beach-head, but not necessarily eliminated.

The beach-head contains 1000's of support troops and equipment, even if no actual unit counters are in a beach-head hex, in reality, the beach-head hex is never empty and has massive gunfire support.

Naval gunfire support is already available in the game for the actual landing (Manual - Amphibious units invading a beach that turn fire at double strength to represent naval support), the proposal is that similar support should continue through the following turns.

Where a beach-head symbol has been placed and 'Beach' hexes designated, naval gunfire support should make adjacent coastal 'Beach' hexes immune from capture, or at least provide sufficient additional combat odds to make the beach-head very difficult to capture. This may place a limit on how many beach-head hexes can be supported by the available naval forces, irrespective of how many amphibious points are available.





< Message edited by Rasputitsa -- 8/11/2019 5:37:22 PM >


_____________________________

"In politics stupidity is not a handicap" - Napoleon

“A people which is able to say everything becomes able to do everything” - Napoleon

“Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress" - Napoleon

(in reply to Rasputitsa)
Post #: 12
RE: What needs updating in PFE ? - 8/11/2019 1:12:00 PM   
Rasputitsa


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Armoured Units in Mountain Terrain :

Armoured units would have difficulty in occupying and operating through mountain terrain and would be unable to deploy their full mobile capability except along valley roads. Motorised units have a higher proportion of infantry and can make better use of mountain terrain.

Should armoured units be limited only to be able to cross mountain terrain hex-sides (in either direction), if there is a road crossing that hex-side ?

This also could be extended to 'Hilly' terrain, as in the context of the Italian Campaign, Cassino is 'Hilly' terrain and not suitable for tanks, but would that be too restrictive and cause problems for the AI ?





< Message edited by Rasputitsa -- 8/12/2019 7:07:34 AM >


_____________________________

"In politics stupidity is not a handicap" - Napoleon

“A people which is able to say everything becomes able to do everything” - Napoleon

“Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress" - Napoleon

(in reply to Rasputitsa)
Post #: 13
RE: What needs updating in PFE ? - 8/11/2019 2:05:07 PM   
Rasputitsa


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From: Bedfordshire UK
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Disruption :

I think that the 'disruption' feature should be more pronounced, as you find units in action for months, but hardly affected by disruption. Disruption does occur in certain circumstances, but should also be present as an accumulating background effect just for being in action, over long periods of time.

Only lack of supply and combat seem to have a really significant effect on disruption, when it should be also have an additional constant gradual buildup over time.

Many units show hardly any disruption at all after being in the frontline continuously for the whole game, which should be enough to gradually build up disruption even without combat, or difficult terrain.

Units in good supply seem to be immune from disruption, but the balance should require some rest periods in a scenario of 100+ turns, although the AI may need some help with this and not be penalised as much.

.........................................................................

Edit : had a re-think on this and I am confusing 'disruption' with 'fatigue' and the scale of the game. Unit scale is mainly divisions and although a division may be in action for the whole of a campaign, the component parts of the division, the battalions, or even brigades, may be exchanged and will not necessarily be in action all the time.

'Disruption' would be the result of battle damage and shortage of supply, meaning equipment and vehicles cannot fully be deployed, so I was surprised that disruption only had a significant effect on very few occasions, but I suppose it's how it was, unless other people have similar experiences.

The game does not cover 'fatigue' specifically so 'disruption' must handle it all.









< Message edited by Rasputitsa -- 8/11/2019 5:13:26 PM >


_____________________________

"In politics stupidity is not a handicap" - Napoleon

“A people which is able to say everything becomes able to do everything” - Napoleon

“Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress" - Napoleon

(in reply to Rasputitsa)
Post #: 14
RE: What needs updating in PFE ? - 8/11/2019 10:19:00 PM   
pzgndr

 

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Based on updates for CotD, two additional updates might be an editor for scenario adjustments and the random scenario selection option? That would be good.

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RE: What needs updating in PFE ? - 8/11/2019 11:33:18 PM   
Michael T


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I would have loved to see this game system applied to North Africa.

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