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No modeling of weapon range based on release altitude and/or speed

 
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No modeling of weapon range based on release altitude a... - 7/12/2019 10:23:35 PM   
Tookatee

 

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Unpowered guided weapons like the GBU series that derive range based on the altitude and speed of the delivery aircraft do not have their range affected by the release speed or altitude of the aircraft, with there only being a rudimentary minimum/maximum release altitude. For example, a GBU-38 released at 45,000 feet going 500 mph will have a greater range than if it were released at 10,000 feet at 200 mph, but in-game releasing from the minimum or maximum altitude at any speed results in the exact same range.

On a similar note said GBU weapons have no maximum release speed, for example you can release SDBs at maximum afterburner (920 knots) on the F-15E despite the fact that doing so would rip the wings right off the weapon.


< Message edited by Tookatee -- 7/12/2019 10:25:35 PM >
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RE: No modeling of weapon range based on release altitu... - 7/13/2019 7:10:19 AM   
Dimitris


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A suitable save....?

_____________________________


(in reply to Tookatee)
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RE: No modeling of weapon range based on release altitu... - 7/13/2019 8:24:27 AM   
Tookatee

 

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Here's one that address both points with the SDB and another GBU (but you can also place down any aircraft with the other GBU series and see similar results), it's pretty universal no matter what situation you're in. You'll always be able to release it at it's maximum range no matter what speed or altitude you're at.

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< Message edited by Tookatee -- 7/13/2019 11:30:40 AM >

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RE: No modeling of weapon range based on release altitu... - 7/14/2019 12:31:06 PM   
LargeDiameterBomb

 

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I must admit that I have experienced this fault also, but regarding release height, but for me the weapon has been the AGM-45 Shrike or AGM-88 HARM, B or C model.

I have noticed absolutely no change in range if releasing at 10 k ft or 36 k ft and as much as I have played CMANO (Several thousand hours - 95 % of it in DB3000) I think I should have noticed it at least sometime if there was a noticeable effect. Neither can I remember releasing at 350 kn instead of for instance about 650 kn making any difference either.

It is possible that there has been a very slight change in maximum range as regards to release speed and an even smaller one with regards to release height, something like a couple of nautical miles (With a weapon range of 70 nm minus 5 % range would not be noticeable in many situations) that I haven't noticed, and I can't really speak with any authority as to if that is realistic or not, although it definitely seems unrealistic that a 350 % difference in release height, with the much thinner atmosphere at that height, and a release speed twice as high, should have more than a few percents effect on range.

Likewise I have never noticed any difference in range with AAMs depending on release speed or height, at least not when the target is flying towards my launching aircraft (I can't speak with certainty about when the target has been on a crossing course at quite long range or when or flying away from me because I have then just seen that the targets is outside the weapons' DLZ zone and left it at that).

I have also never (Perhaps there are one or two exceptions several years ago I have forgotten, I can't be certain) released glide weapons at less than 36 k ft, but even then it seems like there should be a range difference compared to a release at 45 k ft (Or even higher). In the beginning I used to release at 45 k ft but stopped doing so when noticing no difference in range, thinking that range depending on release height just wasn't modeled yet.

i have likewise never noticed released speed having any effect on glide weapons (The ones I am certain of I have experimented lots with are AGM-154s, SDB-Is and SDB-IIs), and I have often varied release speeds to get all the released glide weapons from several sections inbound at a target to get all their glide weapons to enter into the targets SAM envelope simultaenously, although as I said before, it is possible that the effect on range is just a few percent, which I have failed to notice.

I can't upload saves now but I will try to provoke the problems listed here when I get that permission.

< Message edited by LargeDiameterBomb -- 7/14/2019 12:52:49 PM >

(in reply to Tookatee)
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RE: No modeling of weapon range based on release altitu... - 7/14/2019 1:04:05 PM   
LargeDiameterBomb

 

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+Tookatee

You described exactly what I have experienced with much fewer words.

Regardless of speed or height I can always release at maximum range (I can't speak for certain about altitudes under 12 k ft though), with for instance HARMs, JSOWs, SDBs and JDAMs.

(in reply to LargeDiameterBomb)
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RE: No modeling of weapon range based on release altitu... - 7/14/2019 1:54:35 PM   
Tookatee

 

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Yeah this issue seems to be persistent across all guided weapons, but I specified unpowered guided weapons in this post because those are the ones who are affected the most by this.

(in reply to LargeDiameterBomb)
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RE: No modeling of weapon range based on release altitu... - 7/14/2019 8:39:49 PM   
Zanthra

 

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Here is an extreme example. A B-1 Lancer at 20,000 feet can lob a JDAM up to a unit sitting near the peak of Mount Everest at 28,000 feet from more than 10 nautical miles out.

Is it possible to create a check that only lets the weapon fire if:

(Min(attacker altitude - target altitude, 25000) / 25000 > range to target / max range)

If you launch at 12,000 feet against a target at 2,000 feet with a max range of 12nm, then you have 3/5 your max range or 7.2nm.


Or some suitible altrnative to 25000 feet for above which launch conditions are idea for max range?

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< Message edited by Zanthra -- 7/14/2019 9:10:31 PM >

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RE: No modeling of weapon range based on release altitu... - 10/20/2019 10:13:31 PM   
DWReese

 

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I created a post about one hour ago on this same subject, but it was before I read this. I had HARMs released from 92 miles away and they struck the target with the listed range was 70 nm. The AI was controlling the mission, and had the planes flying at 12K feet when the missiles were released.

A 70 to 92 miles (a 22 mile difference) is pretty big.

Doug

(in reply to LargeDiameterBomb)
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