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Large caliber AA gun range? - 7/12/2019 9:14:13 PM   
TheOriginalOverlord

 

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Looking through the DBs...it seems most large caliber 3"/75mm and up are limited to 1.5nm.

Looking here for example...http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_5-54_mk45.php the 5"/54 has a max range of 3.7nm at 65deg elevation.


Is there a reason we don't get the longer range...depending on the OODA loop and aircraft speeds you may not even be able to get a round off..

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RE: Large caliber AA gun range? - 7/13/2019 6:22:38 AM   
ARCNA442

 

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That's a good point. AA gun ranges should probably be extended.

For instance, in game the 5"/38 has a max AA range of 1.5 nm when in real life doctrine called for opening fire at 6+ nm (http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USN/rep/Kamikaze/AAA-Summary-1045/index.html#III).

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RE: Large caliber AA gun range? - 7/13/2019 3:04:59 PM   
Dimitris


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Thanks, we'll take a look. Is there a reason this is not in the DB thread(s)?

< Message edited by Dimitris -- 7/13/2019 4:20:21 PM >


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RE: Large caliber AA gun range? - 7/13/2019 3:24:18 PM   
thewood1

 

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I think DB stuff is popping up here because a couple idiots have turned the db3000 into their own debate center to prove how ill-informed they both are. Just a guess.

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RE: Large caliber AA gun range? - 7/13/2019 9:08:12 PM   
TheOriginalOverlord

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dimitris

Thanks, we'll take a look. Is there a reason this is not in the DB thread(s)?

Sorry..I'm an idiot..lol.

Figured it applied to both DB or maybe it was a WAD thing..


Thanks for taking a look.

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RE: Large caliber AA gun range? - 11/6/2019 8:10:35 AM   
Broncepulido

 

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As rule of thumb I use 1/5 of the surface range as AA real effective range (based on the old German 88mm Flak ranges).Also count "modern" Western surface guns have a max elevation of some 65º (and many 127mm in US ships are even unqualified for AA fire), not 80-90º as older naval guns.

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RE: Large caliber AA gun range? - 11/6/2019 9:50:31 AM   
Gunner98

 

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Most AA systems, and this would include radar guided AAA have four ranges which are often confused with one another:

Range to Acquire the target
Range to track the target
Range to engage the target
Range to hit the target

I don't know the specifics of the guns your asking about or if this is an issue here at all; but the two ranges most often mixed up are the range a gun (or missile) will engage the target and the range it is designed to hit the target at. The difference is critical when computing against crossing, approaching or following targets and the speed of the target vs the velocity of the gun. It is certainly not a case of filling the sky with lead as in WW2, except in the case of unguided AAA.

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RE: Large caliber AA gun range? - 11/6/2019 6:33:54 PM   
TheOriginalOverlord

 

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In the link of my OP..the 5/54 has an AA range of almost 4nm...yet ingame it has to wait until 1.5.
Why aren't large caliber guns able to shoot farther? I think its' realistic to be able to shoot at a low level intruder from 5/54 several miles out. Your radar FC can pick it up...the gun can see it and with HE-VT you should have a decent chance of getting a round close enough to trigger the proximity fuse.


On a similar note...large guns should also be able to BOL fire at random spots..like in surface bombardment or if the target ambiguity is a little off...after all...area barrage might get lucky...just a minor rant.

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RE: Large caliber AA gun range? - 11/18/2019 5:17:37 AM   
LargeDiameterBomb

 

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Gunner 98, you are absolutely right and that's why really gun effectiveness when engaging really any flying target should be affected by the fire control system controlling that gun. I unfortunately consider the AAA implementation the least realistically modelled part of the game as of right now even if base hit percentages were adjusted a little bit in the last updates of CMANO to make them a little more consistent.

Just as radars now have to be able to track flying targets with sufficient precision to be able to fire a missile against a target and switching radar on an airplane will give a different result, the same principle should really affect the effectiveness of AAA units.

It also goes without saying that using a 1960s FCR will give any naval artillery piece an almost non-existent ability to hit a modern non-VLO sea skimming missile while a modern 2000s FCS with radar with MTI, excellent clutter suppression and anti-multipath propagation processing and so on plus being equipped with electrooptics will have a much better chance of hitting a sea skimmer, especially in higher sea states.

Likewise, a helicopter target almost precisely overflying even an old undetected ZPU-4 in woodland (And thus not being prepared at all to maneuver) at 300 feet is going to have a real problem while as it is modelled now hit probability will always be 1 or 0 percent per burst.
EDIT: I tried it out just now with a UH-1N Huey and a ZPU-4 unit (Ie 4 mounts consisting of 4x 14.5 mm HMGs mounted in a AAA carriage): 23 bursts or 2760 rounds were fired and not a single bullet hit the chopper flying at 110 knots straight over the AAA platoon.

If AAA would be modelled at half the realism that AAM engagements are now, most easily done in my opinion by having higher base hit percentages for almost all AAA pieces and applying more and often severe modifiers (For instance a large negative modifier if the target can be expected to be maneuvering to avoid the AAA and thus must be aware of the AAA piece's existence, a very low negative modifier for slow flying objects (Helicopters) to a much, much higher modifier for high subsonic/supersonic targets) to the hit probability calculations, it would make me so happy

< Message edited by LargeDiameterBomb -- 11/18/2019 6:06:17 AM >

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