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Said my piece, carry on if you must.

 
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Said my piece, carry on if you must. - 7/9/2019 2:45:50 PM   
MrsWargamer


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The internet has been 'useful' since before 2000, but it was the www that made it fun and easy to use.

And Matrix Games has been around since juuuuust a bit before the www really got going (if I have my details correct).

It was slow in the beginning. They weren't what they are today, back in the beginning like 2000-2002.
It was a great time for Steel Panthers.

They had this notional subforum, and I personally hated it, and it, in the end, was seen as a bad idea, or at least one that wasn't working.

I LIKE the policy in place today. Keeps us focused on why we come here.
And I think it makes a difference.

With Slitherine Group, you get all the great wargaming dialogue and nothing that detracts from a good wargaming discussion. Pity about the spamming :)

I have been elsewhere online. And while some sites really try, and often have some awesome content, they always fail in one key area, they fail to keep it civil.
All the awesome content in the world isn't going to cut it with me personally if it comes at the price of being forced to deal with uncivil content.

I'm sure plenty of us here, have some views/opinions on some things, that would offend others.
I'm positive I have a few of those opinions.
But I'm happy that it isn't welcome here.

Occasionally I ponder "where else does everyone else here go other than here?" But the truth is, I'm not totally interested in knowing. I doubt it is better than here. I've ditched some very impressive places in the past. I ditched one this morning.

< Message edited by MrsWargamer -- 7/12/2019 3:12:35 PM >


_____________________________

Wargame, 05% of the time.
Play with Barbies 05% of the time.
Play with Legos 10% of the time.
Build models 20% of the time
Shopping 60% of the time.
Exlains why I buy em more than I play em.
Post #: 1
RE: Just saying (a nod to the accomplishments) - 7/9/2019 3:07:17 PM   
loki100


Posts: 6048
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: online
yep - the clear and complete ban on politics here is to be very much welcomed.

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RE: Just saying (a nod to the accomplishments) - 7/9/2019 3:13:04 PM   
larrybush


Posts: 632
Joined: 11/17/2005
From: Florida nowdays
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MrsWargamer, nowadays I only generally go here.
Sometime I search for some good paleontology sites, sometime geology/minerology and sometime anthropology but mostly I come here. I'm not a member of too many other forums. Mostly use the internet for some light educational reading and research.

I was thinking of asking about what site you ditched but if you wanted me to know you would have stated it.

One of my golden favorites is Wenchell Chung's 3D starmaps and related stuff about science fiction. That site was there when I first started cruising the WWW in the 90's with Sprynet and a dialup connection. One of the oldest sites I know!

(in reply to MrsWargamer)
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RE: Just saying (a nod to the accomplishments) - 7/9/2019 5:41:56 PM   
Lobster


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Actually CERN released the WWW to the public domain in 1993 when there were 'only around 50 servers. By years end there were over 500'. First 'public' browsers were also introduced that year. By about 1996 'corporations realized a web presence was no longer optional'. I personally began using the web in late 1996 but had used BBSs since 1991. So contrary to what some would have you believe the WWW was the child of CERN (making CERN the true 'father and mother' of the internet). We owe the people at CERN a huge thank you. Or maybe curse them for it.

From Wiki:

The World Wide Web began as a CERN project named ENQUIRE, initiated by Tim Berners-Lee in 1989 and Robert Cailliau in 1990. Berners-Lee and Cailliau were jointly honoured by the Association for Computing Machinery in 1995 for their contributions to the development of the World Wide Web.

Based on the concept of hypertext, the project was intended to facilitate the sharing of information between researchers. The first website was activated in 1991. On 30 April 1993, CERN announced that the World Wide Web would be free to anyone. A copy[22] of the original first webpage, created by Berners-Lee, is still published on the World Wide Web Consortium's website as a historical document.

Prior to the Web's development, CERN had pioneered the introduction of Internet technology, beginning in the early 1980s.

< Message edited by Lobster -- 7/9/2019 5:43:47 PM >


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RE: Just saying (a nod to the accomplishments) - 7/9/2019 8:06:56 PM   
GaryChildress

 

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I remember the WWW being fairly reliable and extensive in the late 1990s. Of course websites have gotten much fancier since then and connections are much better than the old 56K.

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RE: Just saying (a nod to the accomplishments) - 7/9/2019 8:11:05 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24640
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From: San Antonio, TX
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I remember taking graduate statistics classes at University in 1993-1994 and using web servers for statistical calculations. Anyone else remember Mosaic? XTrek?

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RE: Just saying (a nod to the accomplishments) - 7/9/2019 8:34:04 PM   
larrybush


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Yes, my previous post (above) using spry net, mosaic was the browser. I would not have remembered without that little bit of help.

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RE: Just saying (a nod to the accomplishments) - 7/9/2019 9:04:35 PM   
loki100


Posts: 6048
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

I remember taking graduate statistics classes at University in 1993-1994 and using web servers for statistical calculations. Anyone else remember Mosaic? XTrek?


pah, I can recall having to book time on the Uni mainframe to run stats/econometrics tests on the early versions of SPSS -(X?).

The real computing and physics students were really not happy to have us social scientists hanging around

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RE: Just saying (a nod to the accomplishments) - 7/9/2019 9:07:47 PM   
Zovs


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My first exposure was with a Tandy TS-80 with an 8 baud modem it cost me $21 bucks a month to sign up to the BBS Genie and talk about the Europa board games, Fire in the East, Scorched Earth, The Urals, Western Desert and Fall of France. And then I got a Windows 3.11 machine and Netscape, ‘color’ ands” a 28.8 baud modem!

Oh the times have changed...

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RE: Just saying (a nod to the accomplishments) - 7/9/2019 10:11:22 PM   
CGGrognard


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I remember Mosiac! I also remember the BBS' that were out there too. Let us not forget sites like CompuServe, Prodigy and AOL. Some of the first commercial sites.

As for forums, I enjoy Matrix/Slitherine very much. Surprisingly, since these forums are civil, I constantly discover new topics that peak my interest. Especially in the "What are you _______ to now" forums. The members here are very helpful and courteous too. These are just a couple of reasons that Matrix/Slitherine forums are my "go to" forums.

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RE: Just saying (a nod to the accomplishments) - 7/10/2019 2:45:32 PM   
wodin


Posts: 10262
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
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Forum wise only here and very occasionally Battlefront. I've had difficult times in general actually but also forum specific. Which ended up where here was the place I felt welcome and actually understood with regards to who I truly am. For that I thank the community as a whole who frequent this forum. No bullying or childish insults happen here and I have faith in the mods to stop that sort of thing and most of all be fair, no silly stuff like protected untouchables. Everyone be it old timer or newbie is treated fairly.

I hope AWNT is a popular non forum website😁😉

< Message edited by wodin -- 7/10/2019 2:54:54 PM >


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RE: Just saying (a nod to the accomplishments) - 7/10/2019 3:06:56 PM   
MrsWargamer


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I was late to the computer game. My first system was an IBM PS1 in 1990. I bought that with inheritance funds when my dad's father passed. An entire computer set up in a box for a price I can't recall, but it was crazy and all I got was a 200 meg hard drive :)

It was mainly meant to give me a writing tool, as my health had recently told me "I could drop dead" with respects to running my business, and so I had decided to use professional writing instead. My first modem was a 14.4 Sportster Fax modem. Fine for submitting documents. I went to a 28.8 and then the awesome speed of a 56k. But there wasn't much reason to 'wander' the 'internet' at the time (my opinion). I spent a lot of time on ICQ chatting. And then eventually found Yahoo Messenger and it permitted a person a window so you could see your contact. I spent time on some questionable writing sites. I say 'questionable', because I was trying my hand at erotic fiction :) I suppose I was good at it, but, it just wasn't really my thing.

I didn't really experience much in the way of a dramatic 'shift' in the www experience until around 2000 though. I found Matrix Games early in 2000. And I spent way too much of my day talking about Steel Panthers. And between 2000 and 2005 I spent just about my whole day with wargaming sites when not rampantly downloading documentaries and movies thanks to the training and talents of a young local computer genius buddy. This was the time of torrents and the even better newsgroups, and the fledling services that mailed out movie dvd rentals foolishly permitting some to simply copy them, and send them back. I used something like 10 terra bytes of bandwidth a month :) But that was the world of 2005. With services like Netflix and technology like flash drive doodads that can hold massive somes of data as well as portable drives up to 4 TB common and cheap, I simply have no interest in burning a disk which just becomes useless eventually. I don't buy disks, because they are no better than a copied disk for permanence. I've lost count of how often a bought product failed on me.

I like how Matrix Games and Slitherine can sell me a product that is an easy quick download, which is complete and total and only protected by a serial for install that I can load on as many machines as I wish. I like that I can store the installer on any device I wish, and I usually immediately the moment the download completes, store it in up to 5 locations. I reward Matrix Games and Slitherine with my willingness to frequently buy the game full price. If I can't afford 80 bucks on day 1, chances are I can't afford 40 bucks a year or two later on sale eh. But I buy what I want. And frankly, I only balk at spending more than 100 bucks on anything game or otherwise. It's rare I will buy a board game, or a model or just about anything that's more than 100 bucks. I don't 'hate' Steam per se, but, I don't 'like' Steam either. True it permits faster easier installs of titles like Panzer Corps or Battle Academy which have numerous dlcs n stuff. But the program is intrusive, and not worth a damn offline. It's nice Slitherine Group generously offers free Steam keys for many of their games, but my serials are basically not getting used much. I tried to like the service, but I've discontinued using it.

Nothing is forever though.
I used to be 'everywhere' that is computer wargaming, and now, I'm here, just here, only here. Because only here is worth it. You sell me the products I like, and you guys matured away from the need to be a 'hang out' for the unruly. And forums, they tend to identify a person as being older than 40 :) Because even Facebook has become a means to saying you are not under 30. The only people over 30 using a cell phone for everything, are the rebellious older crowd as I see it. Most of my Facebook crowd, is not under 30. Well it's the need for typing as I see it. Good luck posting this message from a cellphone eh.

I like Facebook, mainly because it's people I want to talk to, my way, all the time my way, my rules, no one else gets to tell me who can be on my Facebook experience. I like the control. I'm here, because the site management, has mastered the art of maintaining discipline. I've enjoyed the content posted to Facebook, and I like the YouTube videos for the games.

Thanks guys :)

_____________________________

Wargame, 05% of the time.
Play with Barbies 05% of the time.
Play with Legos 10% of the time.
Build models 20% of the time
Shopping 60% of the time.
Exlains why I buy em more than I play em.

(in reply to CGGrognard)
Post #: 12
RE: Just saying (a nod to the accomplishments) - 7/10/2019 4:40:02 PM   
Zovs


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I associate with five (5) forums; Matrix Games, Slitherine, Shrapnel, The Depot, and Game Squad. 3 are for Steel Panthers, one is for ASL and Matrix covers the rest.

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War in the East/War in the East II - Alpha Test Teams
WarPlan Beta Tester
DG CWIE2 tester/SPWW2 and SPMBT playtester/scenario creator

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RE: Just saying (a nod to the accomplishments) - 7/10/2019 4:53:12 PM   
Bamilus


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Read my signature and you'll see what forum I prefer

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RE: Just saying (a nod to the accomplishments) - 7/10/2019 5:03:24 PM   
wodin


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From: England
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You can play games from Steam in offline mode by the way MrsWargamer.

I like Steam.

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RE: Just saying (a nod to the accomplishments) - 7/10/2019 5:22:13 PM   
Lobster


Posts: 3570
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From: Third rock from the Sun.
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I didn't used to like Steam either until I used it. I have it on three computers and can play any of the games on any of the computers. But only one of my computers has all the games because I don't ever play all of them. And offline play is easy to do too. Now I can't figure out what it was I didn't like.

BTW, you can also back up any of your Steam games on your hard drive.



< Message edited by Lobster -- 7/10/2019 5:23:08 PM >


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RE: Just saying (a nod to the accomplishments) - 7/11/2019 11:35:34 AM   
wodin


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Yeah it seems those who have issues with Steam have never use it, those who don't do use it.

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RE: Just saying (a nod to the accomplishments) - 7/11/2019 1:20:55 PM   
sPzAbt653


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That's pretty typical, in that those that use something will tend to like it, eh? But I don't care if crack users like crack.

All I care about is the fact that our game developers need time, and lots of it, to work on our games. Steam takes away from that. That makes our community worse for the sake of lazy file managers and cheap bundles of mostly crap games. It's the dumbest ass thing I've ever seen.

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RE: Just saying (a nod to the accomplishments) - 7/11/2019 1:25:47 PM   
76mm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin
Yeah it seems those who have issues with Steam have never use it, those who don't do use it.

Actually I've used it for the few games that I could not get other than on Steam.

I don't like Steam at all, mainly because of its absolutely horrible interface and that fact that I don't see that it adds anything at all to my gaming experience. Plus, the few indy developer games I've bought on Steam just sucked.

< Message edited by 76mm -- 7/11/2019 1:27:08 PM >

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RE: Just saying (a nod to the accomplishments) - 7/12/2019 12:43:51 PM   
wodin


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Surely Steam gives an outlet to small Indy developers be that good or bad for quality😉

As for it adding to games, well Steam workshop is great if a game has it.

Finally great sales!

I just don't see any problems with it at all

< Message edited by wodin -- 7/12/2019 12:45:15 PM >


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RE: Just saying (a nod to the accomplishments) - 7/12/2019 12:49:13 PM   
wodin


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I don't understand how you've come to those conclusions?

I bet Matrix has financially benefited from their games being on Steam. Money that goes into future wargames.

Not sure how Steam effects a developers budget in a negative way or time spent on project??? I know a few developers and none of them have accused Steam of taking sources of revenue or restricting game development time. I'm truly interested in hearing about this sort of thing from developers who have been affected in this way.

As for being dumb?? Don't understand that either. To me it's a modern version of the high street computer game shop but with way more choice and no need to leave the house!


quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

That's pretty typical, in that those that use something will tend to like it, eh? But I don't care if crack users like crack.

All I care about is the fact that our game developers need time, and lots of it, to work on our games. Steam takes away from that. That makes our community worse for the sake of lazy file managers and cheap bundles of mostly crap games. It's the dumbest ass thing I've ever seen.



< Message edited by wodin -- 7/12/2019 1:01:52 PM >


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RE: Just saying (a nod to the accomplishments) - 7/12/2019 12:53:28 PM   
wodin


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What I meant was a lot of those who hate it have never actually used it cos they hate it..it seems to me anyway. I have heard of haters who end up using it and realise it wasn't that bad.

I'm not some acolyte for Steam. I just think people see a problem they don't need to see. Problems mean stress, stress not good. Enough issues in life as it is, why needlessly add to them. Steam is here to stay, like everything you get used to it and then don't even think about it anymore, just is. Few things would stop me buying a game I know I will enjoy, steam certainly isn't one of them


quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

That's pretty typical, in that those that use something will tend to like it, eh? But I don't care if crack users like crack.

All I care about is the fact that our game developers need time, and lots of it, to work on our games. Steam takes away from that. That makes our community worse for the sake of lazy file managers and cheap bundles of mostly crap games. It's the dumbest ass thing I've ever seen.



< Message edited by wodin -- 7/12/2019 12:58:09 PM >


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RE: Just saying (a nod to the accomplishments) - 7/12/2019 1:42:46 PM   
sPzAbt653


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Of course the developers won't say a word against it, it appears to make them more money. There is no way of proving that if there was no steam that folks would go ahead and buy games anyway, but I tend to think they would. But don't focus on developer's making money, that is not our part of this equation. The developer's spend more time catering to steam based on sales thru that venue. If the amount of sales did not warrant the effort, then the effort would be returned to its rightful place - game development. Steam does nothing but advertise and collect money for itself.

Of course steam is here to stay, I've always said that it has a place, but that place is not here. Steam has been around a long time and has an estimated 90 million users, so if some how 15,000 of them from here decide not to use it, steam could care less.

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RE: Just saying (a nod to the accomplishments) - 7/12/2019 1:52:41 PM   
sPzAbt653


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From: east coast, usa
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quote:

I have heard of haters who end up using it and realise it wasn't that bad.

I'll say it again, I'm not a hater, I'm reporting what my investigation turned up, and I don't believe that most users understand what is going on. I'm not fighting the developers, not Matrix, not steam. I'm fighting uninformed users that are supporting something that gives them little benefit while taking away from the quality of their games.

In the past three months since my investigation and when I started speaking up against steam, there have been two reasons that users have given for using steam. One reason is cheap game bundles, and I think we can all agree that is not worth it. It's Columbia House or Publishers Clearing House.

The other is file management. There is part of me that wants to say this is 2020 so manage your own files, but then some get offended. But think of it this way - steam doesn't manage any files, our developers have to make versions of their games that do that within the steam framework. So do you want developers working on steam versions, or working on our games? It's easy to figure that out.

I'll also mention that steam creates a lot of problems for us here, the threads are full of issues. We don't need that. for my part, when I see people backing it up as if it were something good, I'm going to say something, because we really don't deserve it at all.

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Post #: 24
RE: Just saying (a nod to the accomplishments) - 7/12/2019 2:00:58 PM   
wodin


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From: England
Status: online
Well I've heard complaints about our beloved Slitherine taking a large share of the profit compared to developer. Publishers want money, it's a business. Be it Steam or Slitherine some will feel it's unfair regarding share of income.

Still don't understand your "but not here" view. How can the publicity being on Steam be a bad thing for wargaming? I know how difficult getting publicity is, it's like gold dust, so being on Steam I think is fantastic. I'd love my website to suddenly get that sort of exposure! Surely the more places a game appears the bigger the customer base and it positive side effects like drawing attention to the wargame hobby? Youd be surprised by how many gamers out there have no idea you can buy this sort of game and some may even become new wargamers. New blood esp youngsters are needed.

I use Steam as that's where the games are sold. If we are talking specifically about Matrix games, well if it's on Steam and installed and I'm on Steam at the time I use Steam version. In fact if game has Steam version I install that one as it's just easier.

Another good think about Steam is auto updates games. Sometimes I have a fair few in the queue, would be a pain having to check for these updates first. Again time saving.

As for problems, I've used Steam for years and can honestly say only once has there been a Steam specific version issue, That was on release and fixed. Just one.

I'm interested to know how much time and money is spent extra to work a game on Steam. I'd also like to know how much time and money extra for a game to work for Slitherine. You are saying interesting things but can you show the stats and figures that you've discovered in your research to draw your conclusions? A big commitment to run such an investigation and having done so then you need to tell people what you've discovered, enlighten them\us. This sort of thing people want to hear about. love abit of investigative journalism.

Thanks

< Message edited by wodin -- 7/12/2019 2:16:29 PM >


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RE: Just saying (a nod to the accomplishments) - 7/12/2019 2:15:20 PM   
MrsWargamer


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Hey guys, take the Steam debate to another thread please :)

I just wanted to say thanks to our hosts.

_____________________________

Wargame, 05% of the time.
Play with Barbies 05% of the time.
Play with Legos 10% of the time.
Build models 20% of the time
Shopping 60% of the time.
Exlains why I buy em more than I play em.

(in reply to wodin)
Post #: 26
RE: Just saying (a nod to the accomplishments) - 7/12/2019 2:18:48 PM   
wodin


Posts: 10262
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: online
Thanks have been said😁

Conversations evolve.

Considering you started talking about Steam in this thread seems a little hypocritical Lesly.

Though obviously if there is more to say regarding op then I apologise, please carry on.

No one owns a thread no matter who started it, except Matrix themselves😉 There is asking and there is telling, I've never liked being told. Now if you'd have said "listen not an issue but maybe open a new thread about Steam as others may want to join in" that would have been far cooler.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

Hey guys, take the Steam debate to another thread please :)

I just wanted to say thanks to our hosts.



< Message edited by wodin -- 7/12/2019 2:25:19 PM >


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RE: Just saying (a nod to the accomplishments) - 7/12/2019 3:11:47 PM   
MrsWargamer


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Geese, I said please.

Whatever.

_____________________________

Wargame, 05% of the time.
Play with Barbies 05% of the time.
Play with Legos 10% of the time.
Build models 20% of the time
Shopping 60% of the time.
Exlains why I buy em more than I play em.

(in reply to wodin)
Post #: 28
RE: Just saying (a nod to the accomplishments) - 7/12/2019 11:25:06 PM   
IslandInland


Posts: 643
Joined: 12/8/2014
From: YORKSHIRE
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

Geese, I said please.

Whatever.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzdeQbruayk


I've said my piece.


< Message edited by IslandInland -- 7/12/2019 11:29:40 PM >


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I saw generals create imaginary "masses of manoeuvre" with a crayon and dispose of enemy concentrations, that were on the ground and on the map, with an eraser. Who was I to criticise them, hero as I was of a hundred "Chinagraph wars" of make-believe?

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Post #: 29
RE: Just saying (a nod to the accomplishments) - 7/12/2019 11:54:33 PM   
IslandInland


Posts: 643
Joined: 12/8/2014
From: YORKSHIRE
Status: online
Geese-us Christ, I find it incredible that what I assume must be primarily PC gamers are still banging on about how they don't like Steam 16 years after it's inception.

Chillax because the next big thing is Epic Games so in a decade and a half y'all can bang on about how you don't like that either.

https://www.epicgames.com/store/en-US/




< Message edited by IslandInland -- 7/12/2019 11:56:17 PM >


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I saw generals create imaginary "masses of manoeuvre" with a crayon and dispose of enemy concentrations, that were on the ground and on the map, with an eraser. Who was I to criticise them, hero as I was of a hundred "Chinagraph wars" of make-believe?

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