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Shell Weight - 7/8/2019 9:07:52 PM   
StreetF16

 

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I notice that almost all aircraft in the game are given a shell weight of either 100kg or 250kg -- none appear to have anything higher. Since the new naval combat rules take shell weight into account for damage caused by a hit, this seems over simplified. For example, one of the advantages the SBD had over the D3A was its ability to carry a 1,000lb bomb on dedicated strike missions where the D3A was limited to 550 lbs. The damage per hit achieved by the SBD was significantly higher as a result. I have two questions for the community:


1. Wouldn't it be more realistic to adjust the shell weight values to represent the highest weight of bomb or missile warhead that was typically carried by a given aircraft, rather than capping everything at 250kg?

2. Is there any similar effect from shell weight when aircraft attack land targets? I couldn't find anything in the game manual discussing it.


I plan to make some OOB modifications and do some playtesting on this, will report back with anything significant...

------------------------------------------------------------------

OK, after some playtesting I've basically verified what the manual states (go figure...)

Increasing shell weight for an aircraft bomb when attacking ships both increases the chance of penetration AND increases the chance of more damage should penetration occur. These are both a straight linear relationship.

Increasing the shell weight of a bomber attacking entrenched ground units will linearly increase the shell weight per minute, but the rate of entrenchment reduction is reduced somewhat, seems close to the square root of the increased weight factor.

I also checked a few surface combatant shell weights, and they seem to use a good average value for the total shell weight (not just explosive filler) for their respective gun sizes.

Bottom line -- I think it would be more correct to use an actual shell weight representing the largest bomb that particular aircraft would have typically used in that role, so 1,000lbs (450kg) for the SBD rather than the game's stock 250, etc. And common sense should prevail -- don't go loading 12,000lb Tallboys on all of your Lancasters!

One final note regarding torpedoes -- a typical WW2 torp had a warhead around half the total weight of the torpedo, including both the explosive filler and surrounding casing. While any remaining propellant did add a bit to the size of the explosion from a hit, I think the shell weight value for a torpedo should be around half the all-up weight. Torpedoes get a special factor of 4 calculation in any case, so their damage is magnified if they do score a hit.

< Message edited by StreetF16 -- 7/13/2019 11:20:11 AM >


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RE: Shell Weight - 7/8/2019 10:01:28 PM   
sPzAbt653


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You have different Strength Ratings to represent what you are talking about. In some cases, some values are specific:

100kg = Dive Bomber
250kg = Torpedo Bomber.

(in reply to StreetF16)
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RE: Shell Weight - 7/9/2019 7:05:39 AM   
cathar1244

 

Posts: 565
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quote:

ORIGINAL: StreetF16

I notice that almost all aircraft in the game are given a shell weight of either 100kg or 250kg -- none appear to have anything higher.


Looking forward to seeing your test results.

IIRC, shell weight is used in calculating the entire bombardment weight as far as it concerns reducing a target's entrenchment level.

If you change bomb weights in the database, check the TOAW log file after your test scenarios have run and see what kind of bombardment weight the air strikes are generating. For example, if your airstrike has ten aircraft that each could carry 2000 kilograms of ordnance, the total bombardment weight should not exceed 20,000 kilograms.

For anti-shipping effects, see the quoted text below.

Cheers

quote:

76mm, in the interest of illuminating some of the deeper mysteries of TOAW , here is what I have determined regarding the auto-generation of "anti-shipping capability" ratings.

Important caveat: Anti-personnel (AP) ratings shown below are as entered in the equipment file with an editor that is EXTERNAL to the game. Entering AP values with the game's built-in equipment editor scales the ratings differently and for me, was confusing.

Anyone using the game's built-in equipment editor to alter the AP values is on their own.


First requirement to generate anti-shipping capability: The anti-shipping flag has to be toggled on (FLAG3 has to include the value "2").

Two cases follow. The second case is in effect when the "torpedo bomber flag" is toggled on (FLAG7 has to include the value "128"), else, the first case applies.

Note that in both cases, when the antipersonnel rating is set to zero, the anti-shipping capability is still present but attacks may only be conducted against naval units.

First case -- anti-shipping on, not a torpedo bomber.

Antipersonnel rating            Anti-shipping capability

0				120	can attack only naval units
1 ... 15			120
16 ... 23			240
24+   			        360


Second case -- anti-shipping on, is a torpedo bomber.

Antipersonnel rating            Anti-shipping capability

0				240	can attack only naval units
1 ... 11	                240
12 ... 17			480
18+			        720


There is also a third case in which anti-shipping capability is auto-generated. This is the case in which the anti-shipping flag is NOT toggled and a (smallish) anti-shipping capability is made available based upon the AP value. I will look into that and update this comment.

Edited to add the third case. Man, what a rabbit hole this one was, but finally figured out the arithmetic.

Note these examples function for fixed-wing aircraft. I would have to test with artillery to see if the same relationship holds.

Again, with antipersonnel (AP) as entered by an external editor into the equipment file ...

the anti-ship capability is figured as the square root of (two times the AP rating), rounded down.

Example: AP is 0. 0 times 2 = 0. Square root of 0 is 0, the anti-ship rating.

Example: AP is 8. 8 times 2 = 16. Square root of 16 is 4, the anti-ship rating.

Example: AP is 9. 9 times 2 = 18. Square root of 18 is 4.2426. Round down to 4, this is the anti-ship rating.

Highest allowed AP rating is 8000 (!) This works out to an anti-ship rating of 126 after rounding down. (Higher AP ratings can be entered, but TOAW will treat them as 8000.)


< Message edited by cathar1244 -- 7/9/2019 7:20:01 AM >

(in reply to StreetF16)
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