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Deployment Mode - 7/8/2019 1:24:32 PM   
Lobster


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This has always been a source of endless frustration. Has anyone thought that maybe a drop down menu would be better than having to click a button to go through the different options?

Methinks the deployment editor was thought up by someone who used to work part time in a Medieval torture chamber.

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RE: Deployment Mode - 7/8/2019 2:02:50 PM   
Shadrach


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Maybe it was made by the same UI designer who made this:
https://userinyerface.com/

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RE: Deployment Mode - 7/8/2019 2:20:41 PM   
76mm


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Couldn't agree more, drives me bananas.

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RE: Deployment Mode - 7/9/2019 9:14:06 AM   
LeeChard

 

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Sometimes I consider things to be "user hostile"

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RE: Deployment Mode - 7/9/2019 1:30:10 PM   
Zovs


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Well it’s been that way since Norm created it in 1998.

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RE: Deployment Mode - 7/9/2019 1:57:23 PM   
76mm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zovs
Well it’s been that way since Norm created it in 1998.

Sure, but TOAW IV was supposed to be a significant upgrade to the GUI. Personally I was pretty disappointed by the rather limited extent of the upgrade.

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RE: Deployment Mode - 7/9/2019 7:03:21 PM   
Lobster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zovs
Well it’s been that way since Norm created it in 1998.

Sure, but TOAW IV was supposed to be a significant upgrade to the GUI. Personally I was pretty disappointed by the rather limited extent of the upgrade.


And most of it was restricted to the game and not nearly enough to the editor. And then what was devoted to the editor was only partially finished.

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RE: Deployment Mode - 7/9/2019 8:28:05 PM   
sPzAbt653


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How about if, for example, you want to correct a spelling mistake in a unit name? You have to replace the whole name! And we can't C/P Names or News from one to another. Wow, is that DOS or what ?

Don't we feel like Ripley on "Fury" 161?




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by sPzAbt653 -- 7/9/2019 8:44:19 PM >

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RE: Deployment Mode - 7/9/2019 9:29:58 PM   
Zovs


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Yeah the editor seriously needs an uplifting redo

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RE: Deployment Mode - 7/10/2019 12:20:34 AM   
rhinobones

 

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Agree that the editor would benefit from a “user friendly” overhaul, but then again, hundreds of scenarios have been published using the existing editor. Maybe its just not as bad as this thread believes it to be.

Also, in the forum, make note of the types of scenarios currently under discussion and development. Big, global, Eastern Front and Pacific Theater scenarios dominate scenario development. From the scenario designer’s stand point it seems that TOAW has gravitated away from the smaller, battle centric scenarios, to the grander campaign scale.

I believe a better editor interface would benefit all designers, large scale designers in particular. However, the TOAW team worked hard to improve game mechanics while the editor was not seriously broken. Maybe the next release can address some of the major editor deficiencies.

Regards, RhinoBones


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RE: Deployment Mode - 7/10/2019 3:11:15 AM   
Lobster


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Sure I guess if you don't mind the editor zapping you to a far corner of the map when you right click a unit for deployment options. Happens sometimes, not always. Or if you don't mind waiting three to five seconds between clicks. At least you sometimes get to watch the little wheel spin. Happens sometimes, not always. Then there's the half finished parts that new players have no idea about. They think everything works and wonder wtf made the game crash to desktop. And these things don't care how big or small a scenario is. The editor is now worse than it ever was. Those hundreds of scenarios were made with a fully functioning editor as crappy as it was.

This is going back to the, 'if I had to do it this way then you have to also' line. It's broken. Half finished. Not like it used to be. The way it is now makes me wish it was like it used to be. I sometimes wish we had gone to 3.6 and ended it there. Then worked on 4. BTW, it's been over a month since our developer logged on. Just fyi.

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RE: Deployment Mode - 7/10/2019 3:13:47 AM   
larryfulkerson


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quote:

It's broken. Half finished. Not like it used to be.

What was the last version that worked half-way okie dokie? 4.1.0.5 ?

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RE: Deployment Mode - 7/10/2019 3:53:01 AM   
sPzAbt653


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quote:

the types of scenarios currently under discussion and development. Big, global, Eastern Front and Pacific Theater scenarios dominate scenario development.

Because these scenarios have been in development for years. Their designer's have learned to deal with the antiquation and have adapted to the newly introduced faults. Those working on these scenarios are the ones that are too dedicated to give up. Many others have given up and moved to other games, or retired.

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RE: Deployment Mode - 7/10/2019 3:54:36 AM   
sPzAbt653


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quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson
quote:

It's broken. Half finished. Not like it used to be.

What was the last version that worked half-way okie dokie? 4.1.0.5 ?

lol, not even close. 3.5 something.

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RE: Deployment Mode - 7/11/2019 7:26:16 AM   
sPzAbt653


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quote:

the editor zapping you to a far corner of the map when you right click a unit for deployment options.

I've been trying to get a repeatable example to hand off to the fixer's, but as you say it just won't do it every time. I also wonder if it has anything to do with something similar - when phasing thru units or formations using the 'next' arrow buttons, if we come to a unit or formation that is not currently on the map, it will teleport us to the far upper left of the map. That's also annoying.

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RE: Deployment Mode - 7/11/2019 7:35:08 AM   
sPzAbt653


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quote:

hundreds of scenarios have been published using the existing editor.

Just to clarify - using the editor from III and earlier, not the IV editor. IV is responsible for very little, and most of those listed as 'new' for IV were developed with III and moved to IV.

Due to the increased parameters, IV did allow for FitE2 and improvements to D-Day to the Ruhr and maybe one or two others like Thomas Harvey's Pacific works or the ETO scenario's.

Mr. Bones, you've been around here for a long time so I am concerned that you are defending the current state of TOAW

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RE: Deployment Mode - 7/11/2019 11:09:44 AM   
Shadrach


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I guess nobody complained about the editor UI in the ten years from III to IV?

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RE: Deployment Mode - 7/11/2019 12:14:46 PM   
Zovs


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I also have seen the teleport to both the right and left bottom of the map while switching formations in the editor. I think but can't be certain its when you have a formation that is not deployed on the map yet/per se, but have set the formations units to enter in future turns where I have seen this happen the most often.

Also, when you launch the editor it spins for a bit and then when you load a scenario up (especially a large one like my WIE) it takes like 7 to 12 seconds to load.

The worse thing is the repeated CTD that happens every time in the "new" editor. Open up a scenario, click on a unit and select 'u' to be in the on map editor for the unit, then when you click the icon to change it's color scheme it will CTD every time. Goofy to say the least. Also, if memory serves in this editor you can't change the type either (from armor to infantry for example).

Also, if you double click (or quadruple click) sometimes this will cause a CTD as well.

So the editor is far from perfect.

I stared work on my WIE with ACOW and them moved it to TOAW III and am still putting the finishing touches on it in TOAW IV. Its almost there...a few more weeks...its in playtest now.

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RE: Deployment Mode - 7/11/2019 12:34:58 PM   
Blond_Knight


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zovs

every time in the "new" editor.



How does one get to the "old" editor?

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RE: Deployment Mode - 7/11/2019 12:39:32 PM   
larryfulkerson


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I've found that I have to save the scenario as a GAM file
and import that file into the "old" editor.

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RE: Deployment Mode - 7/11/2019 1:02:08 PM   
sPzAbt653


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quote:


How does one get to the "old" editor?

The Original Editor is right where it always was. The 'New' editor is not complete [and from what our project manager says it will not be completed] and can cause crashes if used, but can be seen by hitting 'U'. I've found that equipment changes are quite easy in the 'new' editor, but otherwise it is not worth using.

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RE: Deployment Mode - 7/11/2019 1:59:46 PM   
Blond_Knight


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So does the "go to editor" drop-down in the game and the editor button on the main screen point to the old editor or the new?

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RE: Deployment Mode - 7/11/2019 3:50:28 PM   
Zovs


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That is the old editor. What you see in the formation and unit editor on the map (so to speak) are the new editor features.

What!
quote:

he 'New' editor is not complete [and from what our project manager says it will not be completed] and can cause crashes if used


That is crap!

It's broken in it's current state and needs to be fix!

Maybe a new Project Manager is needed and some new programmers?



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RE: Deployment Mode - 7/11/2019 5:39:12 PM   
Curtis Lemay


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Blond_Knight

So does the "go to editor" drop-down in the game and the editor button on the main screen point to the old editor or the new?

They are referring to the Force Editor, not the overall Editor.

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RE: Deployment Mode - 7/11/2019 5:51:27 PM   
Curtis Lemay


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

The 'New' editor is not complete [and from what our project manager says it will not be completed]...


A falsehood.




Attachment (1)

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RE: Deployment Mode - 7/11/2019 5:58:48 PM   
76mm


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hmmm, I don't recall reading about any major impending changes/fixes...could you enlighten us about all this higher priority stuff?

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RE: Deployment Mode - 7/11/2019 6:04:46 PM   
Curtis Lemay


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quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm

hmmm, I don't recall reading about any major impending changes/fixes...could you enlighten us about all this higher priority stuff?

That's something you'll have to get from Tamas.

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RE: Deployment Mode - 7/11/2019 10:43:33 PM   
Lobster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zovs


Maybe a new Project Manager is needed and some new programmers?




The project manager is not broken. What is broken is his support. It's like trying to pull a load of fertilizer to the field with a tractor that has only one wheel.

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RE: Deployment Mode - 7/11/2019 10:48:17 PM   
larryfulkerson


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zovs
Maybe a new Project Manager is needed and some new programmers?

I think a careful analysis of the past performance of the TOAW Beta team in general will reflect that there needs to be a complete overhall. A new Program Manager, new Developer(s), and a new team of testers are all needed before any serious progress can be contemplated.

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there's a government organization head that needs to be pummelled severely about the head and shoulders by a rampaging 4-year old chimpanzee on meth with a pipe wrench.

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RE: Deployment Mode - 7/12/2019 2:19:52 AM   
sPzAbt653


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay
quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653
The 'New' editor is not complete [and from what our project manager says it will not be completed]...

A falsehood.

A step in the right direction, but this didn't just come to light, it has been an issue for four years. And while none of this probably should officially be discussed in public, we've been trying on the development forum, also for years, with no luck. So something needs to be done and that part of the community that isn't actually aware deserves to know.

(in reply to Curtis Lemay)
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