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RE: New Midway Movie Trailer - 6/27/2019 11:28:13 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Apparently there are two awful-CGI movies coming about Midway.






You are correct.

Although I thought the "Midway" CGI was marginally better. Less of the 'shaky CGI to suggest dynamic movement' effect than "Dauntless". Pretty uninspiring acting in both though.

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RE: New Midway Movie Trailer - 6/27/2019 11:35:13 PM   
Fishbed

 

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Well, as some others pointed out in the past, can't be worse than the 1976 flick.
In the end, as you can guess from the trailer (with the scenes in the Marshall Islands, the Doolittle raid, it's probably not so much about Midway as it is about Enterprise and its airgroup in the first six months of the war with a few drops of Edwin Layton & Chester Nimitz thrown in the mix - it is pretty much Battle: 360 in a live action movie. I'd say it is more an adaptation of Pacific Payback than it is of Midway proper...

Still, just to draw a parallel to the 1976 Midway, how many of you had anything to say about its realism when you first saw it? How many of you were under 12 and still found this terrible piece of nonsense totally cool? Some people start their hobby with Tora Tora Tora. Some others had to make do with 1976 Midway because it was what was showing that day on that channel. It still probably did the job if you're here today among us. If this one does half the job the old one did for the new generation, I will find no reason to criticize it for what it is. Usually people start their ride with Roland Emmerich and then end up studying Egyptology or WitP, not the other way around

Still, whatever will be in there, they have enough people giving advice that I still expect it to be way beyond that movie that shall not be named.

And when I say beyond, I mean above. Not beyond in terms of horror

< Message edited by Fishbed -- 6/27/2019 11:39:43 PM >


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RE: New Midway Movie Trailer - 6/27/2019 11:36:53 PM   
Canoerebel


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Our technology has advanced so rapidly but sometimes that seems to lead to regression.

Computers are amazing things, but we cram movies with CGI that is awful. Then you compare Midway (2019) with Twelve Angry Men or Petrified Forest or Casablanca or Stalag 17 and conclude, "Man, the old movies were so much better!" There have been many wonderful movies in the past one score years (contrary to Timotheus's assertion) but for too many action/noise/graphics are poor replacements for excellent acting and relatively simple sets.

Perhaps we're doing the same thing with women. They can augment and reduce and enhance. They get tattoes and piercings. They wear less and show more. And they (mostly) can't hold a candle to Grace Kelly, Audrey Hepburn, Donna Reed etc.

Ah, ol' fart.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 6/27/2019 11:38:51 PM >

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Post #: 33
RE: New Midway Movie Trailer - 6/28/2019 2:47:35 AM   
NigelKentarus


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Casablanca is still in my top 5 movies of all time. But as far as the 1976 Midway movie, is there a better one that I'm not aware of?

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RE: New Midway Movie Trailer - 6/28/2019 3:26:51 AM   
Ddog

 

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I'm not sure why they can't seem to get the CG stuff right. Remember Red Tails? IT just seems that they consistently defy the laws of physics in every scene.

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RE: New Midway Movie Trailer - 6/28/2019 3:52:01 AM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

...it's JFB's and AFB's deciding if the Yamato or Iowa would win in a fight.

warspite1

[Faux laughter for effect] Hehehehe! [Adopts suitably condescending tone while delivering a metaphorical pat on the head] and of course, as we all know, in any straight fight between Yamato and USS Iowa, the clear winner would be HMS Warspite.


< Message edited by warspite1 -- 6/28/2019 4:54:58 AM >


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RE: New Midway Movie Trailer - 6/28/2019 3:52:02 AM   
Lovejoy


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I agree that the quality of CGI seems to get worse and worse. The one thing I'll give this film and the other one credit for is that at least it looks like they get the actual design of the ship classes right. By my observation, the Yorktown-class carriers look like Yorktown-Class Carriers (unlike some other nameless movie that used a modern carrier with an angled steel flight deckl), and in the Dauntless trailer, they had proper Interwar US heavy cruisers screening the carriers.

I'll give them a go if the local theater screens them. I just saw Bill Murray's The Dead Don't Die and it would be hard for me to dislike a movie I see in a theater more than that one.

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RE: New Midway Movie Trailer - 6/28/2019 4:31:09 AM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Our technology has advanced so rapidly but sometimes that seems to lead to regression.

Computers are amazing things, but we cram movies with CGI that is awful. Then you compare Midway (2019) with Twelve Angry Men or Petrified Forest or Casablanca or Stalag 17 and conclude, "Man, the old movies were so much better!" There have been many wonderful movies in the past one score years (contrary to Timotheus's assertion) but for too many action/noise/graphics are poor replacements for excellent acting and relatively simple sets.

Perhaps we're doing the same thing with women. They can augment and reduce and enhance. They get tattoes and piercings. They wear less and show more. And they (mostly) can't hold a candle to Grace Kelly, Audrey Hepburn, Donna Reed etc.

Ah, ol' fart.
warspite1

Well as another of the ol' fart generation (and one for whom nostalgic thoughts appear to be taking up more of my time) I have more than a little sympathy with what you are saying, but I do think there is a degree of 'rose-tinted spectacles' here.

Firstly I think CGI generally is a wonderful thing and done properly (not just action sequences but landscape and objects), can, and do, add so much to film. Imagine Dam Busters with properly done CGI (a great film but special effects were ahem 'of its day')..... But as has been pointed out, aircraft action CGI seems so routinely to be done appallingly it has to be a conscious decision to make 'Star Wars' in WWII. Shame.

As for the film comparisons I think it a little unfair to compare such as Midway with say Twelve Angry Men. I think for a more useful comparison, films should be compared with those of the same genre.

Were actors and actresses of the past necessarily better at the acting art? No doubt some were and some weren't. The best today are, I would suggest, every bit as good as those in the past. Acting styles change to suit the age, but the need to be able to act and to make it look so natural doesn't change. I like looking at old films from time to time but the acting can often seem stilted and artificial - no criticism of the actors and actresses as they were doing what was then the norm in a different time, with a different moral compass (for better or worse). I think it fair to say a wider range of acting skills is probably needed today.

As for wearing less and showing more, piercings and wotnot, well these are just the changing times. The carryings on of the rich and famous was more hushed up and controlled by the studios back in the day - I'm sure the rumours about certain 'ladies' of stage and screen back then are true (dirrrty girls!).

As for the new Midway, well I probably won't be rushing out to the cinema but I'll certainly be watching when it comes on TV and hoping it does a decent job. As some said earlier, it's at least nice to see Yorktown look like Yorktown.




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RE: New Midway Movie Trailer - 6/28/2019 4:47:28 AM   
Crimso


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fishbed

Still, just to draw a parallel to the 1976 Midway, how many of you had anything to say about its realism when you first saw it?


Saw it when it opened (and yes, I was about 12). It was in Sensurround, so the realism was exquisite!


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Post #: 39
RE: New Midway Movie Trailer - 6/28/2019 5:08:54 AM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Crimso


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fishbed

Still, just to draw a parallel to the 1976 Midway, how many of you had anything to say about its realism when you first saw it?


Saw it when it opened (and yes, I was about 12). It was in Sensurround, so the realism was exquisite!



Tell the truth now - part of the reason you enjoyed it was because you were high on root beer, right?!

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RE: New Midway Movie Trailer - 6/28/2019 6:04:13 AM   
Yaab


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Oh-oh, the Nips are getting bigger...

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RE: New Midway Movie Trailer - 6/28/2019 6:32:59 AM   
Yaab


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Apparently there are two awful-CGI movies coming about Midway.










This is the Hollywood's version of the Yamamoto's Midway strategy.

The "Dauntless" film is like the feint to the Aleutians. It is designed to lure the old farts to the cinemas, hence the use of word "Dauntless" in the film's title - the word recognizable only to those interested in PTO. In the meantime, the real coup de grace will be delivered by the KB aka Emmerich CGI "Midway" film will which achieve the total annihlaition of historical truth in the minds of young, impressionable American cinemagoers. Banzai!

And watch out for Lt Ben Affleck, piloting his dedicated, pimped B-26 Marauder " Benphis Beau" over the Imperial Palace in Tokyo.

< Message edited by Yaab -- 6/28/2019 9:00:34 AM >

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RE: New Midway Movie Trailer - 6/28/2019 6:49:38 AM   
Fishbed

 

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quote:

This is the Hollywood's version of the Yamamoto's Midway strategy.

The "Dauntless" film is like the feint to the Aleutians. (...)


I know you mean no harm Yaab, but I find a bit ironic that someone would pan these movies because of a supposed lack of historicity and realism, and still vividly mention the old myth of the "Aleutians feint" as an actual thing that existed

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RE: New Midway Movie Trailer - 6/28/2019 8:57:27 AM   
Apollo11


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Hi all,

Sad... just sad... absolutely terribad...


Leo "Apollo11"

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RE: New Midway Movie Trailer - 6/28/2019 9:15:43 AM   
Leandros


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy
Nah. We'd be screaming at the screen the whole time about lack of arrest wires on B-26s and pan the movie just based on that alone.

Well, Biggles did it - landed his B-24 (!) on a carrier just outside Borneo. A British carrier, at that...! So, why not?

Fred
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RE: New Midway Movie Trailer - 6/28/2019 9:22:28 AM   
Yaab


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We will always have Tora!Tora!Tora!.

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RE: New Midway Movie Trailer - 6/28/2019 10:34:15 AM   
Anachro


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Tora Tora Tora is also outdated in some of what it shows,much like the belief that the Aleutians were a feint being viewed as the truth years ago

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RE: New Midway Movie Trailer - 6/28/2019 10:48:37 AM   
mind_messing

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Anachro

Tora Tora Tora is also outdated in some of what it shows,much like the belief that the Aleutians were a feint being viewed as the truth years ago



Most of that was due to drawing from Mitsuo "The decks were packed" Fuchida's account of the battle.

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Post #: 48
RE: New Midway Movie Trailer - 6/28/2019 3:08:31 PM   
Panther Bait


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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Our technology has advanced so rapidly but sometimes that seems to lead to regression.

Computers are amazing things, but we cram movies with CGI that is awful. Then you compare Midway (2019) with Twelve Angry Men or Petrified Forest or Casablanca or Stalag 17 and conclude, "Man, the old movies were so much better!" There have been many wonderful movies in the past one score years (contrary to Timotheus's assertion) but for too many action/noise/graphics are poor replacements for excellent acting and relatively simple sets.

Perhaps we're doing the same thing with women. They can augment and reduce and enhance. They get tattoes and piercings. They wear less and show more. And they (mostly) can't hold a candle to Grace Kelly, Audrey Hepburn, Donna Reed etc.

Ah, ol' fart.
warspite1

Well as another of the ol' fart generation (and one for whom nostalgic thoughts appear to be taking up more of my time) I have more than a little sympathy with what you are saying, but I do think there is a degree of 'rose-tinted spectacles' here.

Firstly I think CGI generally is a wonderful thing and done properly (not just action sequences but landscape and objects), can, and do, add so much to film. Imagine Dam Busters with properly done CGI (a great film but special effects were ahem 'of its day')..... But as has been pointed out, aircraft action CGI seems so routinely to be done appallingly it has to be a conscious decision to make 'Star Wars' in WWII. Shame.

As for the film comparisons I think it a little unfair to compare such as Midway with say Twelve Angry Men. I think for a more useful comparison, films should be compared with those of the same genre.

Were actors and actresses of the past necessarily better at the acting art? No doubt some were and some weren't. The best today are, I would suggest, every bit as good as those in the past. Acting styles change to suit the age, but the need to be able to act and to make it look so natural doesn't change. I like looking at old films from time to time but the acting can often seem stilted and artificial - no criticism of the actors and actresses as they were doing what was then the norm in a different time, with a different moral compass (for better or worse). I think it fair to say a wider range of acting skills is probably needed today.

As for wearing less and showing more, piercings and wotnot, well these are just the changing times. The carryings on of the rich and famous was more hushed up and controlled by the studios back in the day - I'm sure the rumours about certain 'ladies' of stage and screen back then are true (dirrrty girls!).

As for the new Midway, well I probably won't be rushing out to the cinema but I'll certainly be watching when it comes on TV and hoping it does a decent job. As some said earlier, it's at least nice to see Yorktown look like Yorktown.





I think there are two area where CGI can really be a distraction these days.

1. CGI has gotten a lot cheaper (and quicker) to do. With the increased opportunity, it is inevitable that companies with varying degrees of quality emerge. A-list companies get the most money and work on big budget properties (Marvel, Star Wars, LOTR, etc.) and the smaller/cheaper shops work on the smaller stuff. And let's face it, WW2 movies (and TV) are generally a niche market that goes to the small shops. As with most things, you get what you pay for and the quality shows.

2. Uncanny valley effects are also something comes into play when CGI is used to replicate real world events. Noone can conclusively say whether the X-wings in Star Wars are "realistic" because of course, they don't exist. Same with cave trolls and balrogs in LOTR. But lots of people (or at least us) know what a Wildcat or a Dauntless looks like when it flies. We have combat footage from WW2 to view or airshows to visit. So it becomes much easier to pick up on the inaccuracies. And of course, cheap CGI and/or questionable "Hollywood" decisions (hey, those PBYs are moving so slowly, can we speed that up to get through this shot faster?) can exacerbate the uncanny valley quite a bit.

Take for example the various Marvel movies. When I watch them, there are definitely moments that just don't look right even though overall the CGI is as top-notch as you can get. I think that is because even though flying armored suits don't exist, I can extrapolate from real-life far enough to know that the Iron Man flying scenes sometimes just look wonky.

Mike

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RE: New Midway Movie Trailer - 6/28/2019 3:29:07 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
They wear less and show more.


I fail to see the problem here.

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RE: New Midway Movie Trailer - 6/28/2019 3:31:57 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Crimso


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fishbed

Still, just to draw a parallel to the 1976 Midway, how many of you had anything to say about its realism when you first saw it?


Saw it when it opened (and yes, I was about 12). It was in Sensurround, so the realism was exquisite!




Hear hear. One of the handful of excellent war movies I saw with my dad in the theaters. I liked it very much at the time and continue to think it punches above its weight, in spite of some annoying inaccuracies.

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RE: New Midway Movie Trailer - 6/28/2019 3:34:01 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
Ah, ol' fart.


Agreed.

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RE: New Midway Movie Trailer - 6/28/2019 6:07:36 PM   
Alpha77

 

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Stop complaining

And instead watch one or two of these movies, I bet you have not seen them all:

Timeline of WW2 in Films:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlbkuV7mk30

(almost 13 mins. of WW2 movie madness)

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RE: New Midway Movie Trailer - 6/28/2019 6:22:13 PM   
Gridley380


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alpha77

Stop complaining

And instead watch one or two of these movies, I bet you have not seen them all:

Timeline of WW2 in Films:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlbkuV7mk30

(almost 13 mins. of WW2 movie madness)


Cool. Wonder how many of them are *good* movies, though?

Yes, there were a bunch I hadn't seen, and quite a few I hadn't even heard of.

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Post #: 54
RE: New Midway Movie Trailer - 6/28/2019 6:24:55 PM   
Canoerebel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alpha77

Stop complaining

And instead watch one or two of these movies, I bet you have not seen them all:

Timeline of WW2 in Films:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlbkuV7mk30

(almost 13 mins. of WW2 movie madness)


Thanks, Alpha77, for posting that. I watched it and really enjoyed it. Whoever put that together did a fine job.

I was glad to see footage from The Pianist, Tora, Enemy at the Gates, and A Bridge Too Far, among others.

I was glad not to see footage from The Movie that Shan't Ever be Mentioned in this Forum.

I was surprised not to see footage from Bridge on the River Kwai (somehow tying it to the fall of Singapore), nor Where Eagles Dare (utter fiction, utter fun), and Schindler's List.

I was a bit surprised to see footage from The Thin Red Line, Windtalkers and Fury (heck, if the latter was used, then Eagles Dare and River Kwai should've be shoo-ins).

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Post #: 55
RE: New Midway Movie Trailer - 6/28/2019 6:41:50 PM   
Alpha77

 

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Yeah some important ones were missing like Das Boot, Bridge of Remagen, Die Brücke, The Unknown Soldier...

I liked the thin red line also for the nature shots and the voice overs (but many hate that). Can´t remember Windtalkers but it was not the best I believe, Fury is one of the few tank movies so should be included imho. There is also a Russian tank movie named the white tiger but it is in part phantasy (as the white tiger seems to be some supernatural beast)...

Outside WW2
Here a good Napoleonic war series: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRlVJ-tIcsE
(Sharpe Rescues English Prisoners)

as well about Danish-Prussian war (Danish series, has one episode about the Battle of Dybbol and is quite impressive imho)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUud0nylj7Y

Here I believe a Swedish or Russian movie (part) from the Battle of Poltava (but non historic):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_616H2BdO8

(these 2 are not so famous battles but were quite important)



< Message edited by Alpha77 -- 6/28/2019 6:56:26 PM >

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Post #: 56
RE: New Midway Movie Trailer - 6/28/2019 7:31:59 PM   
BBfanboy


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Since that list included some movies that appeared to have been made in Finland, I marvel that "Enemy at the Gates" was included instead of the excellent Russian-made "Stalingrad"? Check out the trailer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3l_h51Hn9Y

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RE: New Midway Movie Trailer - 6/28/2019 10:16:56 PM   
Alpha77

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Since that list included some movies that appeared to have been made in Finland, I marvel that "Enemy at the Gates" was included instead of the excellent Russian-made "Stalingrad"? Check out the trailer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3l_h51Hn9Y


I believe only "Talvisota" aka winter war is Finish from the list. However there are 2 more series and 1 movie about winter war and/or the so called continuation war. Also about Swedish volunteers in the war.

But Talvisota is the best of them.

This trailer you posted reminds me of call of duty...


< Message edited by Alpha77 -- 6/28/2019 10:18:05 PM >

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Post #: 58
RE: New Midway Movie Trailer - 6/28/2019 11:20:30 PM   
mind_messing

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

...it's JFB's and AFB's deciding if the Yamato or Iowa would win in a fight.

warspite1

[Faux laughter for effect] Hehehehe! [Adopts suitably condescending tone while delivering a metaphorical pat on the head] and of course, as we all know, in any straight fight between Yamato and USS Iowa, the clear winner would be HMS Warspite.



https://youtu.be/V4gJfATGr9k?t=41


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Post #: 59
RE: New Midway Movie Trailer - 6/29/2019 2:35:41 AM   
NigelKentarus


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If you've never read the book 'Enemy at the Gates', it's a good read. The movie is based on 3-4 pages of a 1200 page book.

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