Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

Anti-sub warfare

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Strategic Command Series >> Strategic Command WWII: World at War >> Anti-sub warfare Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Anti-sub warfare - 6/27/2019 9:29:44 AM   
wevilc

 

Posts: 54
Joined: 6/26/2019
Status: offline
Hello everyone. I have just started playing this great game and wondered whether I could get some beginner’s advice. I am only playing the Japanese while I learn the game mechanics. It’s late 1942 and the war in China has gone well. The Pearl Harbour raid was a bit messed up (only sank two ships) but I just conquered Singapore and the Dutch East Indies are next.

I am, however, baffled by subs. They seem unsinkable. In fact, the score so far is subs 1 destroyers 0. I try bombing them from carriers, shore-based bombing, even battleship salvo but so far, nothing

Any tips would be most appreciated.
Post #: 1
RE: Anti-sub warfare - 6/27/2019 1:01:36 PM   
Mercutio

 

Posts: 207
Joined: 12/26/2006
Status: offline
Hi wevilc

CVEs have anti-sub as do maritime bombers as well as DDs. It helps to have the anti-sub research and upgrade those units. Subs are a pain in the rear. If they are upgraded with advanced subs, they can be a nightmare to kill. Also your carriers and medium and tactical bombers do ok.

It takes a village to kill one of these things. The good news is each attack reduces its supply. Play the UK and US for the ultimate whack-a-mole game with subs.

(in reply to wevilc)
Post #: 2
RE: Anti-sub warfare - 6/27/2019 1:10:57 PM   
wevilc

 

Posts: 54
Joined: 6/26/2019
Status: offline
Thx John E

I thought research might be in there somewhere! One more question, OK two - what are CVEs and DDs?

I just sank MacArthur himself off the Dutch East Indies as he was making some half-baked move in a zone dominated by the entire combined fleet, so it looks as though the AI may not be that hot. I also seem to have lost an escort carrier, or maybe just lost count. Is there a unit manifest somewhere?

(in reply to Mercutio)
Post #: 3
RE: Anti-sub warfare - 6/27/2019 1:52:32 PM   
Mercutio

 

Posts: 207
Joined: 12/26/2006
Status: offline
CVE are escort carriers
DDs are destroyers
<Edit> As to a unit manifest, I don't think so. I keep meaning to ask about/for it myself </Edit>

< Message edited by JohnE -- 6/27/2019 1:53:35 PM >

(in reply to wevilc)
Post #: 4
RE: Anti-sub warfare - 6/27/2019 2:06:01 PM   
wevilc

 

Posts: 54
Joined: 6/26/2019
Status: offline
Ah, thanks

(in reply to Mercutio)
Post #: 5
RE: Anti-sub warfare - 6/27/2019 2:56:35 PM   
Wushuki

 

Posts: 9
Joined: 5/6/2017
Status: offline
I have to agree with the OP, they seem a little excessive now. Although the UK can build special anti submarine boats that have a sub attack of 3, the main way to kill them seems to be destroyers that only have a sub attack of 1. As most of the time your destroyers will have less than 100% readiness and subs can also evade damage by diving, you will probably have to attack a single sub about 15 times to kill it with equal tech level of subs and destroyers. I understand that submarines have to have a decent survivability if they are meant as convoy raiders. But when subs attack warships they are insanely effective and their own survivability really makes this seem OP.

So, the way that sea battles seem to work right now is that your destroyers are almost pointlessly attacking submarines. Then an enemy surface ship attacks your destroyers and absolutely wrecks them. When you then move in your surface ships to counter, the submarines will wreak havoc on your surface ships. There is no way to stop that from happening as there are not really any powerful anti submarine counters.

I haven't played this game enough to be sure there is nothing you can do about this. Though I get the feeling that reducing sub effectiveness against surface ships seems like it would even things out a bit. So that subs become just convoy raiders, rather than your sea army.

Feel free to disagree though and tell me what I am doing wrong.

(in reply to wevilc)
Post #: 6
RE: Anti-sub warfare - 6/27/2019 3:27:55 PM   
wevilc

 

Posts: 54
Joined: 6/26/2019
Status: offline



Well that’s depressing. Look forward to seeing any further comments.

(in reply to Wushuki)
Post #: 7
RE: Anti-sub warfare - 6/28/2019 12:17:50 AM   
Mercutio

 

Posts: 207
Joined: 12/26/2006
Status: offline
It is not just killing the sub, but interfering with the subs raiding. The key is to make raiding more costly than it is worth. Not killing everything in 1940.

Remember, after the first couple of years Germany will have a lot of areas to keep up with, naval won't be one of them they can afford, unless you lose a lot of stuff. Their economy is shockingly weak early on and they have to get ready for Barbarossa. If you try them you will see what I mean. Also you need to learn how to screen. Ships stop on a dime with a surprise encounter. Screen the German fleet so they cannot break out. They will probably try in bad weather because the planes can't fly. However, if the weather clear the UK has 4 carriers I think? Not counting a couple of maritime and a medium bomber. You can use a carrier or those planes to spot. Wipe out the German surface fleet and then you are free to play whack a mole. Also ASW on ships gives them a defense value that counters what you are talking about.

From the manual in various areas.

Costs rise with unit upgrades, generally by 10% per level of upgrade, though some like Anti-Submarine Warfare only cost 5% and others like Mobility cost 20% (30% for Germany). This means over time it is cheaper for all your ASW stuff by 50%!

When attacked, Subs have a % chance of diving. They have a 20% starting chance, increasing by 10% with every upgraded level of Advanced Subs. However, each new level of Anti-Submarine Warfare upgrade reduces an attacked Sub’s dive percentage by 10%. If they do dive then they will generally move 1-2 hexes away, and if they were in Hunt mode then they will automatically switch to Silent mode. This means that the attacker will probably have to relocate the Sub before it can be attacked again.

Tip! At zero supply units cannot raid convoy lines, and Submarines cannot dive, so returning to port periodically to refuel is strongly advised. The time in port can also be used to reinforce and upgrade.

Anti-Submarine Warfare – ASW research improves the Sub Attack and Sub Defense values of Maritime Bombers, and all types of surface naval combat units apart from Battleships, who only benefit from improvements in their defense values against Sub attack. Each new level of ASW reduces an attacked Sub’s current dive percentage by 10%. This is a must for the UK.

Anti-Submarine Warfare (ASW) developments were essential in defending ships from Submarine attack, as well as for Submarine detection and destruction. ASW research improves the Sub Attack and Sub Defense values of Maritime Bombers, and for all types of surface naval combat units apart from Battleships, who only benefit from improvements in their Sub Defense values. Each new level of ASW reduces an attacked Sub’s current dive percentage by 10%, while an extra benefit is that it also reduces the MPP loss that convoys suffer from raiders. Just as Germany will benefit from investing in Advanced Submarines, so the UK and USA will benefit greatly from researching Anti-Submarine Warfare. Otherwise a U-Boat campaign in the Atlantic could cripple the UK’s economy. Japan is also recommended to invest in this in the event that the Allies start raiding her convoys.

Maritime Bombers These are useful for spotting naval targets and attacking Submarines, especially when upgraded with Long Range Aircraft and Anti-Submarine Warfare research.

Much cheaper and quicker to build than Carriers, Escort Carriers are ideally suited for hunting enemy Submarines and can be useful against other naval targets, but they are somewhat fragile and cannot keep pace with most other naval units.

Back to me. I hope this helps, or at least gives you, err, hope.

(in reply to wevilc)
Post #: 8
RE: Anti-sub warfare - 6/28/2019 12:39:41 AM   
Mithrilotter

 

Posts: 182
Joined: 2/18/2016
Status: offline
As Japan, I have had very good luck against AI Allied subs by building motor torpedo boats (MTB)(which have a higher base ASW than destroyers) and maritime bombers. I also invest two points in ASW as soon as possible. Maritime bombers can cover a large area and they hit twice. Any Allied sub that is still on the surface, I then hit with MTB's. I station the MTB's between the Philippines and Singapore. MTB's are also good stationed in naval straits to ambush subs trying to sneak through.

(in reply to Mercutio)
Post #: 9
RE: Anti-sub warfare - 6/28/2019 6:23:11 AM   
countrboy

 

Posts: 210
Joined: 9/26/2015
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mithrilotter

As Japan, I have had very good luck against AI Allied subs by building motor torpedo boats (MTB)(which have a higher base ASW than destroyers) and maritime bombers. I also invest two points in ASW as soon as possible. Maritime bombers can cover a large area and they hit twice. Any Allied sub that is still on the surface, I then hit with MTB's. I station the MTB's between the Philippines and Singapore. MTB's are also good stationed in naval straits to ambush subs trying to sneak through.


I use MTB's a fair bit and suspect they are a little over-powered. I've seen an MTB inflict more damage than it received on a destroyer, which seems a little odd.

(in reply to Mithrilotter)
Post #: 10
RE: Anti-sub warfare - 6/28/2019 7:44:50 AM   
wevilc

 

Posts: 54
Joined: 6/26/2019
Status: offline
Thanks for those further illuminating posts. I certainly would not have thought of using MTBs.

How about the jap subs? What are these best used for. I have just two and have tried to use them for spotting but the Pacific is big and they haven’t spotted anything.

(in reply to countrboy)
Post #: 11
RE: Anti-sub warfare - 6/28/2019 7:52:27 AM   
sapper32


Posts: 1197
Joined: 5/7/2007
From: Warminster England
Status: offline
Keep attacking the subs as there supply drops you will start scoring hits also make sure your carriers are on naval tactical mode, Sometimes it seems like your chasing ghosts and getting damaged every time but it will swing around but it takes time to happen, As the Japanese I use them for scouting ahead of my fleet but I'm not that experienced as the Axis

_____________________________

The battle of Medjerda is almost forgotten,but was fought against highly disciplined German troops and blasted a route straight to Tunis it was a perfect infiltration battle and should be remembered as the best fought British battle of the war.

(in reply to wevilc)
Post #: 12
RE: Anti-sub warfare - 6/28/2019 8:15:50 AM   
wevilc

 

Posts: 54
Joined: 6/26/2019
Status: offline
Thx Sapper. I take it you specialise in playing the allies.

My plan is to play the Soviets after Japan as I imagine mostly land warfare will be more straightforward. The Brits must be very difficult to play, not only (or mainly) because of ASW but because they are active on so many have highly varied fronts.

(in reply to sapper32)
Post #: 13
RE: Anti-sub warfare - 6/29/2019 2:21:48 AM   
LiquidSky


Posts: 2800
Joined: 6/24/2008
Status: offline


Having a unit sit next to the sub will prevent it from attacking the convoy.

Causing the sub to dive and move away puts it in stealth mode....which prevents it from attacking the convoy.

Best way to deal with them at first is to just find them and annoy them. The sub won't attack your anti-sub unit as it would be an unfavourable attack.

_____________________________

“My logisticians are a humorless lot … they know if my campaign fails, they are the first ones I will slay.” – Alexander the Great

(in reply to wevilc)
Post #: 14
RE: Anti-sub warfare - 6/29/2019 2:50:30 AM   
wevilc

 

Posts: 54
Joined: 6/26/2019
Status: offline
Thx Liquid Sky. That is useful.

Having got to early 1945 now, I find my concern about the subs was exaggerated. They are a containable nuisance. I still haven’t sunk one but their affect on MPPs, and naval operations has been pretty negligible.

(in reply to LiquidSky)
Post #: 15
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Strategic Command Series >> Strategic Command WWII: World at War >> Anti-sub warfare Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.141