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OT: Meat on the table...Rand Study - 6/21/2019 7:32:42 PM   
Rusty1961

 

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https://warisboring.com/f-d-how-the-u-s-and-its-allies-got-stuck-with-the-world-s-worst-new-warplane/

The analysts railed against the new plane, which to be fair played only a small role in the overall simulation. “Inferior acceleration, inferior climb [rate], inferior sustained turn capability,” they wrote. “Also has lower top speed. Can’t turn, can’t climb, can’t run.” Once missiles and guns had been fired and avoiding detection was no longer an option—in all but the first few seconds of combat, in other words—the F-35 was unable to keep pace with rival planes.

"Meat on the table"
Post #: 1
RE: OT: Meat on the table...Rand Study - 6/21/2019 7:37:51 PM   
MakeeLearn


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"Chinese-owned company has been manufacturing key circuit boards for top secret next generation F-35 fighter jets flown by the U.K. and U.S., broadcaster Sky News reported Friday."

""Exception PCB produces bare circuit boards, and as a result, there are no risks associated with their product in the F-35 aircraft supply chain," said a spokesperson for the MoD, downplaying the firm's importance in the program.

Former defense ministers and experts, however, have expressed concern over a Chinese-owned firm operating at the center of such a secretive program and attribute this to possible Chinese espionage and rivalry."


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There is no such thing as truth in the perceptible universe: every idea when analyzed is found to contain a contradiction.
Aleister Crowley




(in reply to Rusty1961)
Post #: 2
RE: OT: Meat on the table...Rand Study - 6/21/2019 7:39:14 PM   
MakeeLearn


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The US and Japan still can't find a missing F-35, and its 'secrets' may be in danger

"The US and Japan have been conducting a tireless, around-the-clock search for a missing F-35 for a week, but so far, they have yet to recover the downed fighter or its pilot. A life is on the line, and the "secrets" of the most expensive weapon in the world are lost somewhere in the Pacific Ocean.

A Japan Air Self-Defense Force F-35A Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter flown by 41-year-old Maj. Akinori Hosomi disappeared from radar last Tuesday, April 9. No distress signal was sent out as the aircraft vanished roughly 85 miles east of Misawa Air Base. "

_____________________________


There is no such thing as truth in the perceptible universe: every idea when analyzed is found to contain a contradiction.
Aleister Crowley




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Post #: 3
RE: OT: Meat on the table...Rand Study - 6/21/2019 7:41:12 PM   
MakeeLearn


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For a while I dated a woman that was one of the top civilian maintenance supervisors for the F22.
What little she told me was enlightening.

< Message edited by MakeeLearn -- 6/21/2019 7:48:32 PM >


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There is no such thing as truth in the perceptible universe: every idea when analyzed is found to contain a contradiction.
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Post #: 4
RE: OT: Meat on the table...Rand Study - 6/21/2019 7:42:22 PM   
Rusty1961

 

Posts: 968
Joined: 2/4/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

The US and Japan still can't find a missing F-35, and its 'secrets' may be in danger

"The US and Japan have been conducting a tireless, around-the-clock search for a missing F-35 for a week, but so far, they have yet to recover the downed fighter or its pilot. A life is on the line, and the "secrets" of the most expensive weapon in the world are lost somewhere in the Pacific Ocean.

A Japan Air Self-Defense Force F-35A Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter flown by 41-year-old Maj. Akinori Hosomi disappeared from radar last Tuesday, April 9. No distress signal was sent out as the aircraft vanished roughly 85 miles east of Misawa Air Base. "



The lie they are propagating is the Japanese pilot lost spatial orientation thus causing the crash.

Gotta love how they blame a dead man for their failure. Dead men tell no tales, eh?

(in reply to MakeeLearn)
Post #: 5
RE: OT: Meat on the table...Rand Study - 6/21/2019 7:45:17 PM   
MakeeLearn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961

https://warisboring.com/f-d-how-the-u-s-and-its-allies-got-stuck-with-the-world-s-worst-new-warplane/

The analysts railed against the new plane, which to be fair played only a small role in the overall simulation. “Inferior acceleration, inferior climb [rate], inferior sustained turn capability,” they wrote. “Also has lower top speed. Can’t turn, can’t climb, can’t run.” Once missiles and guns had been fired and avoiding detection was no longer an option—in all but the first few seconds of combat, in other words—the F-35 was unable to keep pace with rival planes.

"Meat on the table"



From the article, some help for WitPAE:

"But as an organization, the Marine Corps was forever changed by its exposure on Guadalcanal."
“The lesson learned was that the U.S. Marine Corps needed to be able to bring its air power with it over the beach because the large-deck Navy aircraft carriers might not always be there,” said Ben Kristy, an official Marine historian."

< Message edited by MakeeLearn -- 6/21/2019 7:46:03 PM >


_____________________________


There is no such thing as truth in the perceptible universe: every idea when analyzed is found to contain a contradiction.
Aleister Crowley




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Post #: 6
RE: OT: Meat on the table...Rand Study - 6/21/2019 7:47:49 PM   
MakeeLearn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

The US and Japan still can't find a missing F-35, and its 'secrets' may be in danger

"The US and Japan have been conducting a tireless, around-the-clock search for a missing F-35 for a week, but so far, they have yet to recover the downed fighter or its pilot. A life is on the line, and the "secrets" of the most expensive weapon in the world are lost somewhere in the Pacific Ocean.

A Japan Air Self-Defense Force F-35A Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter flown by 41-year-old Maj. Akinori Hosomi disappeared from radar last Tuesday, April 9. No distress signal was sent out as the aircraft vanished roughly 85 miles east of Misawa Air Base. "



The lie they are propagating is the Japanese pilot lost spatial orientation thus causing the crash.

Gotta love how they blame a dead man for their failure. Dead men tell no tales, eh?



Stolen?

_____________________________


There is no such thing as truth in the perceptible universe: every idea when analyzed is found to contain a contradiction.
Aleister Crowley




(in reply to Rusty1961)
Post #: 7
RE: OT: Meat on the table...Rand Study - 6/21/2019 7:55:04 PM   
Rusty1961

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

The US and Japan still can't find a missing F-35, and its 'secrets' may be in danger

"The US and Japan have been conducting a tireless, around-the-clock search for a missing F-35 for a week, but so far, they have yet to recover the downed fighter or its pilot. A life is on the line, and the "secrets" of the most expensive weapon in the world are lost somewhere in the Pacific Ocean.

A Japan Air Self-Defense Force F-35A Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter flown by 41-year-old Maj. Akinori Hosomi disappeared from radar last Tuesday, April 9. No distress signal was sent out as the aircraft vanished roughly 85 miles east of Misawa Air Base. "



The lie they are propagating is the Japanese pilot lost spatial orientation thus causing the crash.

Gotta love how they blame a dead man for their failure. Dead men tell no tales, eh?



Stolen?



I don't think it was stolen, unless there is proof it isn't correct to accuse a patriot of treason of the worst kind.

what I like is how they know the cause without even finding a body or wreckage.

That means they know the cause isn't the pilot.

(in reply to MakeeLearn)
Post #: 8
RE: OT: Meat on the table...Rand Study - 6/21/2019 10:18:07 PM   
dcpollay


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From: Upstate New York USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

The US and Japan still can't find a missing F-35, and its 'secrets' may be in danger

"The US and Japan have been conducting a tireless, around-the-clock search for a missing F-35 for a week, but so far, they have yet to recover the downed fighter or its pilot. A life is on the line, and the "secrets" of the most expensive weapon in the world are lost somewhere in the Pacific Ocean.

A Japan Air Self-Defense Force F-35A Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter flown by 41-year-old Maj. Akinori Hosomi disappeared from radar last Tuesday, April 9. No distress signal was sent out as the aircraft vanished roughly 85 miles east of Misawa Air Base. "



The lie they are propagating is the Japanese pilot lost spatial orientation thus causing the crash.

Gotta love how they blame a dead man for their failure. Dead men tell no tales, eh?

Do you know the truth, Rusty? If not, you're just trolling here.

My .02 cents. But think about it.


_____________________________

"It's all according to how your boogaloo situation stands, you understand."

Formerly known as Colonel Mustard, before I got Slitherine Syndrome.

(in reply to Rusty1961)
Post #: 9
RE: OT: Meat on the table...Rand Study - 6/21/2019 10:37:36 PM   
geofflambert


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From: St. Louis
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Well, whatever, it wouldn't shock me even a little bit if the F-35 turns out to be the biggest cluster eff ever. Plus we've imposed this nightmare on our allies, among other nightmares we've thrust upon our allies. Maybe this will mean the next big aerospace contract will go to the people who brought us the F-15 Eagle and the F/A-18 Super Hornet and the 737 Max ... er, oops!

(in reply to dcpollay)
Post #: 10
RE: OT: Meat on the table...Rand Study - 6/21/2019 11:04:15 PM   
Rusty1961

 

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Joined: 2/4/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcpollay


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

The US and Japan still can't find a missing F-35, and its 'secrets' may be in danger

"The US and Japan have been conducting a tireless, around-the-clock search for a missing F-35 for a week, but so far, they have yet to recover the downed fighter or its pilot. A life is on the line, and the "secrets" of the most expensive weapon in the world are lost somewhere in the Pacific Ocean.

A Japan Air Self-Defense Force F-35A Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter flown by 41-year-old Maj. Akinori Hosomi disappeared from radar last Tuesday, April 9. No distress signal was sent out as the aircraft vanished roughly 85 miles east of Misawa Air Base. "



The lie they are propagating is the Japanese pilot lost spatial orientation thus causing the crash.

Gotta love how they blame a dead man for their failure. Dead men tell no tales, eh?

Do you know the truth, Rusty? If not, you're just trolling here.

My .02 cents. But think about it.




I know if the MIC said it was pilot error without a body or wreckage it wasn't the truth (what they said).


(in reply to dcpollay)
Post #: 11
RE: OT: Meat on the table...Rand Study - 6/21/2019 11:05:35 PM   
Rusty1961

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

Well, whatever, it wouldn't shock me even a little bit if the F-35 turns out to be the biggest cluster eff ever. Plus we've imposed this nightmare on our allies, among other nightmares we've thrust upon our allies. Maybe this will mean the next big aerospace contract will go to the people who brought us the F-15 Eagle and the F/A-18 Super Hornet and the 737 Max ... er, oops!



Not to worry; the F-35 has been such a success in fulfilling the role of the F-16 and F-15 that the US Air Force is asking Congress for monies to build the F-15X. Not that it implies the F-35 can't replace the F-15 mind you.

(in reply to geofflambert)
Post #: 12
RE: OT: Meat on the table...Rand Study - 6/21/2019 11:15:07 PM   
RangerJoe


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Sometimes, people need to leave the basement and get into the sun. If they then turn to stone, they can become statues in a garden for birds to drop poo on.

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Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
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Post #: 13
RE: OT: Meat on the table...Rand Study - 6/22/2019 12:06:01 AM   
geofflambert


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Who says there's any sun outside of my (er... my mom's) basement?

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Post #: 14
RE: OT: Meat on the table...Rand Study - 6/22/2019 12:14:14 AM   
RangerJoe


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You need to get into the sun in the morning so you can warm up and move. Just don't get out into the afternoon sun and bake.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to geofflambert)
Post #: 15
RE: OT: Meat on the table...Rand Study - 6/22/2019 12:19:11 AM   
FlyByKnight


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Oh, hohohoho, look whose back! Look who can't take a hint when thread after thread easily rebukes his flimsy arguments. What's the matter, your last attempt got torn down too quickly the first time around?
Now whadda we have here, trying to go for the throat is it? Whoah, duck in cover, he's got an article that's almost 6 years old! From a trashy website that panders to normies! Damn, with links to such journalistic luminaries as counterpunch.org, and quotes from wise luminary of defense reform Pierre Sprey, who would dare to dissent against it? Disregard all those appearances by Sprey on Russia Today and Sputnik, no harmful agendas favored by Russia there, nosiree. And what's that I espy? A RAND study from 2008? The study that they backed off from and had to specify what their goal was as stated in that very article? Drat, and I thought I had a chance. Nigh-11 year old studies that were already 5 years old by the time that article came out, there's no defense. That one quotation from a contributor the discredited Ausairpower, too, watch out. Nothin strikes fear into the heart of a would-be hatred skeptic like a layout that was cutting edge for 2004 and a 5-year lack of updates. Crikey. Another brilliantly-conceived move by the great Rusty1961, the lone dissenter waging his one-man war against any unparalleled folly that dares to show itself before computer screen. Woe, great woe betide those who dare to contradict his shining deductions. If only we had listened...

< Message edited by FlyByKnight -- 6/22/2019 12:35:11 AM >

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Post #: 16
RE: OT: Meat on the table...Rand Study - 6/22/2019 12:25:57 AM   
RangerJoe


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_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to FlyByKnight)
Post #: 17
RE: OT: Meat on the table...Rand Study - 6/22/2019 12:59:41 AM   
Rusty1961

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FlyByKnight

Oh, hohohoho, look whose back! Look who can't take a hint when thread after thread easily rebukes his flimsy arguments. What's the matter, your last attempt got torn down too quickly the first time around?
Now whadda we have here, trying to go for the throat is it? Whoah, duck in cover, he's got an article that's almost 6 years old! From a trashy website that panders to normies! Damn, with links to such journalistic luminaries as counterpunch.org, and quotes from wise luminary of defense reform Pierre Sprey, who would dare to dissent against it? Disregard all those appearances by Sprey on Russia Today and Sputnik, no harmful agendas favored by Russia there, nosiree. And what's that I espy? A RAND study from 2008? The study that they backed off from and had to specify what their goal was as stated in that very article? Drat, and I thought I had a chance. Nigh-11 year old studies that were already 5 years old by the time that article came out, there's no defense. That one quotation from a contributor the discredited Ausairpower, too, watch out. Nothin strikes fear into the heart of a would-be hatred skeptic like a layout that was cutting edge for 2004 and a 5-year lack of updates. Crikey. Another brilliantly-conceived move by the great Rusty1961, the lone dissenter waging his one-man war against any unparalleled folly that dares to show itself before computer screen. Woe, great woe betide those who dare to contradict his shining deductions. If only we had listened...



Fair enough; is June 12th, 2019, too "dated" for you?

https://www.defensenews.com/air/2019/06/12/the-pentagon-is-battling-the-clock-to-fix-serious-unreported-f-35-problems/

(in reply to FlyByKnight)
Post #: 18
RE: OT: Meat on the table...Rand Study - 6/22/2019 1:06:23 AM   
Rusty1961

 

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1Z_DuF87Sc

What does he know? Right?

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Post #: 19
RE: OT: Meat on the table...Rand Study - 6/22/2019 1:35:41 AM   
geofflambert


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It is interesting that the critic Rusty presents blames the USAF for fatal flaws in the program. The USAF was also first in complaining about having to buy F-35s and they wanted to get some more F-22s instead. We never did need one airframe that could do everything. Instead we perhaps have one airframe that can do nothing, well.

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Post #: 20
RE: OT: Meat on the table...Rand Study - 6/22/2019 3:02:02 AM   
panzer cat

 

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Bring Back the Phantom! The real Mig killer.

Long time Phantom Phan.

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Post #: 21
RE: OT: Meat on the table...Rand Study - 6/22/2019 3:11:22 AM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 13650
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

The US and Japan still can't find a missing F-35, and its 'secrets' may be in danger

"The US and Japan have been conducting a tireless, around-the-clock search for a missing F-35 for a week, but so far, they have yet to recover the downed fighter or its pilot. A life is on the line, and the "secrets" of the most expensive weapon in the world are lost somewhere in the Pacific Ocean.

A Japan Air Self-Defense Force F-35A Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter flown by 41-year-old Maj. Akinori Hosomi disappeared from radar last Tuesday, April 9. No distress signal was sent out as the aircraft vanished roughly 85 miles east of Misawa Air Base. "



The lie they are propagating is the Japanese pilot lost spatial orientation thus causing the crash.

Gotta love how they blame a dead man for their failure. Dead men tell no tales, eh?



Stolen?

Chances are that aircraft had at least one wingman with it who could offer some account of the circumstances. Secondly, who knows what sort of telemetry there is between these cutting edge aircraft and satellites or ground stations. Like the US forces, the Japanese probably also appreciate the value of real time info from every major asset in the field.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to MakeeLearn)
Post #: 22
RE: OT: Meat on the table...Rand Study - 6/22/2019 3:17:29 AM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 13650
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
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quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

It is interesting that the critic Rusty presents blames the USAF for fatal flaws in the program. The USAF was also first in complaining about having to buy F-35s and they wanted to get some more F-22s instead. We never did need one airframe that could do everything. Instead we perhaps have one airframe that can do nothing, well.

Just a guess, but before the F-35 program is fulfilled there will be more drones doing fighter and attack missions than manned aircraft do. AI is getting sophisticated enough and fast enough to make nearly independent decisions. Legal issues are what keep it chained to the central human control, but in a shooting war the legal tether will be removed immediately.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

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Post #: 23
RE: OT: Meat on the table...Rand Study - 6/22/2019 4:04:05 PM   
Rusty1961

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

The US and Japan still can't find a missing F-35, and its 'secrets' may be in danger

"The US and Japan have been conducting a tireless, around-the-clock search for a missing F-35 for a week, but so far, they have yet to recover the downed fighter or its pilot. A life is on the line, and the "secrets" of the most expensive weapon in the world are lost somewhere in the Pacific Ocean.

A Japan Air Self-Defense Force F-35A Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter flown by 41-year-old Maj. Akinori Hosomi disappeared from radar last Tuesday, April 9. No distress signal was sent out as the aircraft vanished roughly 85 miles east of Misawa Air Base. "



The lie they are propagating is the Japanese pilot lost spatial orientation thus causing the crash.

Gotta love how they blame a dead man for their failure. Dead men tell no tales, eh?



Stolen?

Chances are that aircraft had at least one wingman with it who could offer some account of the circumstances. Secondly, who knows what sort of telemetry there is between these cutting edge aircraft and satellites or ground stations. Like the US forces, the Japanese probably also appreciate the value of real time info from every major asset in the field.



Let's examine the black-box from the F35 they found. Oh, wait, it was destroyed in the crash.

Isn't that convenient.

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 24
RE: OT: Meat on the table...Rand Study - 6/22/2019 8:08:23 PM   
Gregg

 

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This article does not even mention the F-35's latest whoops, that being the "stealth" coating on the airframe, tends to "burn off" during sustained supersonic flight.
Thus is the pilot wants to remain stealthy, the can not fly supersonic for more than two minutes at a time!

This plane reminds me so much of Robert McNamara's TFX, the F-111.
Another not so brilliant "one plane to do everything for both the Navy and the Air Force" kind of thing.
The F-35 attempts to do everything for the Navy, the Air Force and the Marines!

A now retired friend who was stationed at Eglin AFB, where they test this kind of stuff, was involved with simulated dog fights against the F-35 about 4 years ago.
Even the "old" F-16 was better in the traditional Dog Fight, and the F-15 and F-22 could run rings around it.
And, the F-35 is intended to replace all three!

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 25
RE: OT: Meat on the table...Rand Study - 6/22/2019 10:33:17 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 13650
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From: Winnipeg, MB
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gregg

This article does not even mention the F-35's latest whoops, that being the "stealth" coating on the airframe, tends to "burn off" during sustained supersonic flight.
Thus is the pilot wants to remain stealthy, the can not fly supersonic for more than two minutes at a time!

This plane reminds me so much of Robert McNamara's TFX, the F-111.
Another not so brilliant "one plane to do everything for both the Navy and the Air Force" kind of thing.
The F-35 attempts to do everything for the Navy, the Air Force and the Marines!

A now retired friend who was stationed at Eglin AFB, where they test this kind of stuff, was involved with simulated dog fights against the F-35 about 4 years ago.
Even the "old" F-16 was better in the traditional Dog Fight, and the F-15 and F-22 could run rings around it.
And, the F-35 is intended to replace all three!

This ground has been covered before. The F-35 was never designed to be the fastest or most agile, it was designed for stealth and superior avionics to target enemies before they were even aware of its presence. Like every recent successful major weapon system it will have its teething issues and eventually get to a fully operational state. Only then in the crucible of combat will we find out how good or bad it is.
And I recall exactly the same gnashing of teeth over the F-117 Stealth Fighter when it came out - until Desert Storm proved it could take down air defences ahead of the main air strikes. Ditto on the B-2.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Gregg)
Post #: 26
RE: OT: Meat on the table...Rand Study - 6/22/2019 10:39:41 PM   
RangerJoe


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Also the F-117 stealth fighter was not a fighter in that it was NOT designed to attack enemy aircraft. It should be considered more of a light bomber which would be used to attack well defended targets. The F-35 is trying to do the same job AND take out enemy aircraft. The right tool for the job is important to have.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 27
RE: OT: Meat on the table...Rand Study - 6/23/2019 5:12:40 AM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 25443
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gregg

This article does not even mention the F-35's latest whoops, that being the "stealth" coating on the airframe, tends to "burn off" during sustained supersonic flight.
Thus is the pilot wants to remain stealthy, the can not fly supersonic for more than two minutes at a time!

This plane reminds me so much of Robert McNamara's TFX, the F-111.
Another not so brilliant "one plane to do everything for both the Navy and the Air Force" kind of thing.
The F-35 attempts to do everything for the Navy, the Air Force and the Marines!

A now retired friend who was stationed at Eglin AFB, where they test this kind of stuff, was involved with simulated dog fights against the F-35 about 4 years ago.
Even the "old" F-16 was better in the traditional Dog Fight, and the F-15 and F-22 could run rings around it.
And, the F-35 is intended to replace all three!

This ground has been covered before. The F-35 was never designed to be the fastest or most agile, it was designed for stealth and superior avionics to target enemies before they were even aware of its presence. Like every recent successful major weapon system it will have its teething issues and eventually get to a fully operational state. Only then in the crucible of combat will we find out how good or bad it is.
And I recall exactly the same gnashing of teeth over the F-117 Stealth Fighter when it came out - until Desert Storm proved it could take down air defences ahead of the main air strikes. Ditto on the B-2.

+1. Well said.

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(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 28
RE: OT: Meat on the table...Rand Study - 6/23/2019 8:35:22 AM   
wdolson

 

Posts: 10373
Joined: 6/28/2006
From: Near Portland, OR
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gregg

This article does not even mention the F-35's latest whoops, that being the "stealth" coating on the airframe, tends to "burn off" during sustained supersonic flight.
Thus is the pilot wants to remain stealthy, the can not fly supersonic for more than two minutes at a time!

This plane reminds me so much of Robert McNamara's TFX, the F-111.
Another not so brilliant "one plane to do everything for both the Navy and the Air Force" kind of thing.
The F-35 attempts to do everything for the Navy, the Air Force and the Marines!

A now retired friend who was stationed at Eglin AFB, where they test this kind of stuff, was involved with simulated dog fights against the F-35 about 4 years ago.
Even the "old" F-16 was better in the traditional Dog Fight, and the F-15 and F-22 could run rings around it.
And, the F-35 is intended to replace all three!

This ground has been covered before. The F-35 was never designed to be the fastest or most agile, it was designed for stealth and superior avionics to target enemies before they were even aware of its presence. Like every recent successful major weapon system it will have its teething issues and eventually get to a fully operational state. Only then in the crucible of combat will we find out how good or bad it is.
And I recall exactly the same gnashing of teeth over the F-117 Stealth Fighter when it came out - until Desert Storm proved it could take down air defences ahead of the main air strikes. Ditto on the B-2.


Though the Bf-110 was supposed to be the super fighter of the Luftwaffe. In 1940 the top fighter pilots were slotted into Bf-110 units. As a day fighter against single engine interceptors they proved to be a major disappointment. They did do well against heavy bombers with no fighter escort and as night fighters, but they were originally intended to be bomber escorts.

The Sgt York anti-aircraft system was touted as the big next gen AA vehicle for the US Army, it failed miserably.

Sometimes the problems get worked out and sometimes they don't. Time will tell.

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(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 29
RE: OT: Meat on the table...Rand Study - 6/23/2019 2:45:26 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 13650
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gregg

This article does not even mention the F-35's latest whoops, that being the "stealth" coating on the airframe, tends to "burn off" during sustained supersonic flight.
Thus is the pilot wants to remain stealthy, the can not fly supersonic for more than two minutes at a time!

This plane reminds me so much of Robert McNamara's TFX, the F-111.
Another not so brilliant "one plane to do everything for both the Navy and the Air Force" kind of thing.
The F-35 attempts to do everything for the Navy, the Air Force and the Marines!

A now retired friend who was stationed at Eglin AFB, where they test this kind of stuff, was involved with simulated dog fights against the F-35 about 4 years ago.
Even the "old" F-16 was better in the traditional Dog Fight, and the F-15 and F-22 could run rings around it.
And, the F-35 is intended to replace all three!

This ground has been covered before. The F-35 was never designed to be the fastest or most agile, it was designed for stealth and superior avionics to target enemies before they were even aware of its presence. Like every recent successful major weapon system it will have its teething issues and eventually get to a fully operational state. Only then in the crucible of combat will we find out how good or bad it is.
And I recall exactly the same gnashing of teeth over the F-117 Stealth Fighter when it came out - until Desert Storm proved it could take down air defences ahead of the main air strikes. Ditto on the B-2.


Though the Bf-110 was supposed to be the super fighter of the Luftwaffe. In 1940 the top fighter pilots were slotted into Bf-110 units. As a day fighter against single engine interceptors they proved to be a major disappointment. They did do well against heavy bombers with no fighter escort and as night fighters, but they were originally intended to be bomber escorts.

The Sgt York anti-aircraft system was touted as the big next gen AA vehicle for the US Army, it failed miserably.

Sometimes the problems get worked out and sometimes they don't. Time will tell.

Exactly what I meant with the "crucible of combat" comment.
Overall, I was just saying "The pundits who complain about things not being perfect don't really know how useful the weapons system will be either."

My only concern with our (Western) development of new weapons is that the military and government experts and budget authorities have gotten too close to the industrial system to maintain their "military and government" objectivity. Sometimes choices are made based on the jobs and investment the manufacturer promises rather than expected effectiveness of the weapon system.

I get the pressures on governments to do things like "create jobs" but once they show that they are determined not to let a big strategic industry fail, that industry can jack up prices without real justification. I think WWII was a special war because patriotism was part of the drive to develop the best weapons, moreso than the profit motive. People bought bonds with modest rates of return because they believed in the war effort and their country.

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No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to wdolson)
Post #: 30
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